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What has this attack to do with "US foreign policy?"
I thought he was compared to Van Gogh? Not riots but potential death threats and murder. Obviously if anyone criticizes Islam they anticipate threats, as sad as that may be.
Should we have shared the planet with the Nazis in 1941?
... and what the governmental authorities did when they learned the protest and then battle was going on. I am waiting to hear the body count of Libyan law enforcement and military in trying to defend the embassy. If it is zero, I count it as an act of war by the Libyan government against the USA.
Libyan officials spent the night in a manhunt trying to find those responsible for the killings, which occurred when an angry armed mob attacked the diplomatic complex. By midday Wednesday, no one had been arrested for the violence or the deaths, and officials in Tripoli were scrambling to implement a response to what they admitted was a monumental security breach.
Libya's new government has struggled to impose its authority on a myriad of gangs and former rebel brigades that remain armed and act outside the law. New security officials have had mixed success in implementing a plan whereby former rebels would be disbanded from their old brigades and given jobs as part of the new national army, defense forces and border guards.
One witness to the consulate attack Tuesday night said that a handful of Libyan soldiers dressed in the uniform of the new national army were on patrol outside the U.S. diplomatic structure when the mob arrived, but that they were almost immediately overwhelmed.
Yes we do, but their irrationalities do not trump my freedom.
Yes, but you have to remember that this is not the Libya of Gadaffi.. law and order is at best a bit iffy, and "government control" is hardly universal. They are still arguing over who should hold Saif Gadaffi.
Yes they did, but considering that the attack could have been by Al Q and battle harden terrorists.. then not much they could have done. One could say, that it was stupid to have a consulate there in the first place.
Nope US law.. well actually US law does apply within the consulate. Hence the murder of the Ambassador could be tried in the US.. including a trial against the maker of the movie.. in theory any ways. We shall see..
Enough of this.. blood pressure getting too high, time to not debate for a few hours.... stupid high blood pressure crap.
So now you are comparing Muslims to Nazies? .... tsk... that ended that debate fast. Guess I could start comparing Nazi actions to that of Israel to make it a full closing of the thread or moving it to the Middle East dictatorship area.
The Ambassador and staffers NEVER insulted Islam or the Prophet.... Americans should NOT be paying for Israeli actions.
Disa west, that if you insult Islam then the reaction among some Muslims will be violent.
Now do I like the fact that we have to tiptoe around Muslims .. HELLLL no, but I also would rather tiptoe around Muslims than have riots and mass deaths. Especially when I know that the radical aspects of Islam use such provocations to gain and maintain their hold on the population. Basically such provocations push more and more people towards the radical part of Islam.. and that is exactly what we dont want.. and exactly what the movie maker and his followers do want.
So now you are comparing Muslims to Nazies? .... tsk... that ended that debate fast. Guess I could start comparing Nazi actions to that of Israel to make it a full closing of the thread or moving it to the Middle East dictatorship area.
Soooooo, had he simply decided to be responsible he would not have his unearned freedom? To have freedom means irresponsible acts? You see, it's easy to practice your freedoms irresponsibly when you don't have to face the consequences. That's for others to die for. The same others who actually have earned their freedoms and die because people like this director leech from them.
I find no courage in a person who is so full of hate that they would produce film or burn Qu'rans.....yet never even face them. It's the worst kind of coward our Western privileged society produces.
Soooooo, had he simply decided to be responsible he would not have his unearned freedom? To have freedom means irresponsible acts? You see, it's easy to practice your freedoms irresponsibly when you don't have to face the consequences. That's for others to die for. The same others who actually have earned their freedoms and die because people like this director leech from them.
I find no courage in a person who is so full of hate that they would produce film or burn Qu'rans.....yet never even face them. It's the worst kind of coward our Western privileged society produces.
No, I'm comparing bad guys to bad guys. You sound as if you condone the violence waged against my people yesterday. Is that what you're doing?
Let's face it, these people hate us. They're taught to hate us. The Koran tells them to hate us. It's in their DNA. No amount of appeasement is going to change their minds. They can't be reasoned with. The movie was just a convenient excuse; short of that, they would have come up with almost any excuse to do something like this.
I'm sick and tired of these mother****ers and their apologists.
So your are on the side of the people who killed the Americans? I'm not trying to be a smart*** but you seem to be endorsing violence against people who say something you don't like which is what those people were doing
They get criticized here in Chicago.....and the Gang Bangers will say or write anything they like about the Prophet Mohammed. Do you think any Arabs stand up and do anything? Do you think they call and make death threats to the Bangers here. They get their azz beat around here anytime and all the time. NOT ONE OF THEM Got any balls to stand up to Bangers. Who will Pull a pistol out and start popping caps in their azzes. NOW WHY is it Not One Arab will get up and Open their big mouth or why is it that Not ONE Will Attempt to do anything about it.
DO you think they understand those who wont play with them?
I don't care what you find. Free means he can make the movie and just because others respond irrationally doesn't mean that he is responsible or should have his freedoms curtailed.
And what will be your course of action having reached this state of anger and frustration?
"The whole atmosphere has changed for the better,” Stevens wrote in an email in July. “People smile more and are much more open with foreigners. Americans, French and British are enjoying unusual popularity. Let’s hope it lasts!”
In July, Chris said he was excited about the prospect of forthcoming Libyan elections and of showing Sen. John McCain around town during a visit.
He had got into the habit of a daily run through “our somewhat rural neighborhood of goat farms and olive groves and vineyards” and had tracked down his old tennis coach, Mohamed, for a weekly match.
“All in all, it’s great to be back,” he wrote, “especially in the ‘new Libya,’ as people here are saying.”
In a short personal postscript a few days later, he added: “It is quite amazing out here. And now it seems the Muslim Brotherhood has suffered a defeat at the polls! Strange and unexpected.”
I don't care what you find. Free means he can make the movie and just because others respond irrationally doesn't mean that he is responsible or should have his freedoms curtailed.
I'm on my side.
My side does not include coward Americans safe at home practicing the rights they didnt earn for themsleves at the expense of those abroad doing the work.
My side does not include religious zealots who appoint themselves as God's executioners on earth.
You see, I've faced these zealots in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been to Egypt. I have been to Oman, Kuwait, and the UAE. I can confidently state that our enemy is a civilization. Not the few ("terrorists" as they are labeled) who merely represent them. Those who try to state otherwise are the same sort who pretend that Nazis weren't Germans. That somehow the two were distinctly different just as Islamic extremists are different from the Islamic civilization that breeds and nurtures them.
But I will not abide the idea that a piece of **** in America gets to cause the death of Americans abroad because he feels that he must celebrate the freedoms he didn't earn by insulting and stoking fires needlessly. There have been a plethora of books and articles written on the matter. This had nothing to do with him "blowing the whistle" on a religion. This had everything to do with his personal hatred forced upon the world. In the end, this "director" will refuse his responsibility in this because people like you will allow him off the hook. He was an idiot. He is a fool. And now Americans abroad are dead because of it. They aren't dead because of his rights. He had his rights without his stupid video. Others earned that for him. And now others are dead because of him.
Freedom of speech or the freedom to write or produce, is not just an individual act. It is something each member of our societies has to work for and protect, even if we disagree strongly with those views being expressed.
The recent trend seems to be that we will isolate those individuals from the rest of society, as we did with that reverend in Florida and are doing now with this filmmaker, rather than just letting them say whatever they like and then deciding for ourselves whether it contains merit or not.
If we don't stand together on these issues, no matter how much we may disagree with them, then the entire system begins to crumble.
Yet freedoms are curtailed all the time. It's the cost of living decently in a society. But our society has so twisted up its morality that its the irresponsible that are celebrated and the responsible who get offended and killed.
He deserves to face those he offended. Or would that be too responsible for a people who send others to go off and die for their freedoms?
Have you seen the film.. Mohammed is portrayed as a pedophile, rapist, thief.. the worst .. It was designed to get the reaction that it got.
The director/producer blames embassy security.. He claims he is expressing his religious views and helping his country.. He has also gone into hiding.. So he is also a coward concerning his "beliefs".
This Israeli Bacile didn't earn the right to Freedom of Speech.. and would not have freedom of speech in Israel..
Responsible adults do not lie, antagonize, provoke and insult without knowing that there are consequences.
US ambassador Chris Stevens killed in Libya - live updates | World news | guardian.co.uk
Really sad stuff to read with hindsight.
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