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libertarianism and abortion [W:294]

Gawain said:
Your a rare breed thats for sure. Most libertarians lean right. We dont support socialism.:lol:
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But its my choice :2razz:

What about the Left-Libertarians, anyone know about their position?
I do lean right, just more economically right.
 
Spriggs05 said:
1) Are you talking human being as from conception or the third trimester/etc?
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"Human being" as shorthand for any living member of the species Homo sapiens; the lifespan of a Homo sapiens begins at fertilization.

2) Women may not be able to support the baby financially and may be a burden on her if she is not able to abort it
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Personal responsibility - both parents should have thought of that before having unprotected sex. Alternatively, adoption is always an option.

and if she did in an abortion free country it would be a dangerous, dirty backstreet abortion where the risk of her dying is higher than giving birth to the child, if she wants an abortion give it to her in a safe and clean environment with the presence of a doctor.
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I don't care if a violent killer of innocent human beings kills themselves through their own stupidity; after such an action, they belong in prison for the rest of their lives. Death from self-inflicted wounds saves on room and board.

3) To be honest, I doubt if we will ever know if those in the foetal form are conscious or not, it is impossible to tell what some other being is feeling without expressions, which you cannot see from an ultrasound, if the foetus has a blank face (no emotions shown) then I doubt it is conscious.
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Conscious or not, it's a living human being with a right to life.

When you are sleeping or under medical sedation, you still have your human rights protected.
 
Medusa said:
LIST OF JUST SOME OF THE REASONS LIBERTARIANS WANT GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE ABORTION ISSUE

The fetus is not a human being with rights until it is born (based on a number of rationales) and/or only the mother confers rights on the fetus; even if the fetus has rights, and abortion is murder, the rights of the mother to evict trespassers -- for whatever reasons -- through abortion are greater (based on a number of rationales); the government is the problem, not the solution, including in this issue; it's my body and the government should keep its laws off it; people can decide this issue in their private, contractual communities; only voluntary means of convincing a woman to have a child are libertarian; the decision on whether it is murder is based on political power and adult women have more power; it is wrong to force a deformed baby or unwanted child to come into the world; OTHER???

Pro-Choice Libertarians
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A property owner cannot evict a tenant without proper cause. Eventhough its the owner's private property, the tenant also has rights. A landlord cannot evict on a whim, and certanly cannot use force to evict on a whim.

You only have the right to use lethal force against someone when they are a threat to you. The ZEF didn't enter your property, you made it in your property, the ZEF has never been anywhere else. The woman's body is every bit the ZEF's home as it is thr mother's.
 
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Spriggs05 said:
But its my choice :2razz:

What about the Left-Libertarians, anyone know about their position?
I do lean right, just more economically right.
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I wonder if Libertarian means the same over there as it does here? The Tea party for instance is made up of a large number of Libertarians.
 
Gawain said:
Your a rare breed thats for sure. Most libertarians lean right. We dont support socialism or murder.:lol:
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you support capitalist murders
 
Medusa said:
you support capitalist murders
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Uhhh...

Oh **** it, why not, I'll bite. What, pray tell, is a "capitalist murder?"
 
Medusa said:
wil you back up your own?
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My own what? You say I support capitalist murderers. Can you tell me who this is I support? I certainly do not support our current government.
 
JayDubya said:
Uhhh...

Oh **** it, why not, I'll bite. What, pray tell, is a "capitalist murder?"
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when compared to your idea that abortion is murder it is nothing
 
Gawain said:
My own what? You say I support capitalist murderers. Can you tell me who this is I support? I certainly do not support our current government.
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did l mention any government ?
 
Gawain said:
I wonder if Libertarian means the same over there as it does here? The Tea party for instance is made up of a large number of Libertarians.
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I consider myself more American Libertarian than European Libertarian, mostly along economic grounds. The Ironic thing is America - on a federal level has looser abortion laws than Britain! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_Laws

Look at the map on the right, USA is Blue (on request) UK is green! (in cases of rape, health, etc)
 
Medusa said:
when compared to your idea that abortion is murder it is nothing
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It should be murder, yes, that's only logical.

You didn't explain what the frell a "capitalist murder" was, though.
 
Gawain said:
Im still waiting to here what capitalist murders I support.
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I'm still waiting to know what the hell that even means.
 
JayDubya said:
"Human being" as shorthand for any living member of the species Homo sapiens; the lifespan of a Homo sapiens begins at fertilization.
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Opinion, that's all there is to this debate. In yours it begins at conception, in mine it begins at around the end of second trimester dependant on the foetus.

Personal responsibility - both parents should have thought of that before having unprotected sex. Alternatively, adoption is always an option.
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They should have and it is their fault that they have an unwanted baby.


I don't care if a violent killer of innocent human beings kills themselves through their own stupidity; after such an action, they belong in prison for the rest of their lives. Death from self-inflicted wounds saves on room and board.
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Own Stupidity? For not being guaranteed a safe abortion, she is stupid due to people denying her the right to an abortion she is stupid? She would probably have taken that action since she had no viable alternative. She could just give birth to the child and then die, since the child has no one to look after it as well, two deaths as opposed to a safe abortion.

Conscious or not, it's a living human being with a right to life.
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Again Opinion, refer to first response.

When you are sleeping or under medical sedation, you still have your human rights protected
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I concede that is true.
 
Medusa said:
study some history if you want to know
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Is he talking about Pinochet? I don't know! :lol: Please tell me wise Medusa ;)
 
Spriggs05 said:
Opinion, that's all there is to this debate. In yours it begins at conception, in mine it begins at around the end of second trimester dependant on the foetus.



They should have and it is their fault that they have an unwanted baby.




Own Stupidity? For not being guaranteed a safe abortion, she is stupid due to people denying her the right to an abortion she is stupid? She would probably have taken that action since she had no viable alternative. She could just give birth to the child and then die, since the child has no one to look after it as well, two deaths as opposed to a safe abortion.



Again Opinion, refer to first response.



I concede that is true.
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Your opinion hold no water. At conception what is a horse? Its human from the get go. Of that there is no debate.

How about an unwanted child? You do realize there is a long waiting list for new born babies. All would be adopted if not aborted including those with birth defects. Heck in the Marines we were taught that the Vietnamese werent human so it was fine to kill them. The Germans in WW2 were taught that Jews werent human and it was fine to kill them as well.
 
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