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You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.
He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.
You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.
the perp reaches into the car.
What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?
What would you do?
You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).
I am not a liberal but I am an never Trumper and I think teh shooting was justified.
Except for agenda, how could anyone think different?
Uh, I dunno back off and call for a social worker to defuse the situation?
Ok. I would not say it was the most perfect move. But we can’t ask for perfection. It was reasonable.
A super cool gifted cop maybe could wait one more second, And likely the perp was not going for a gun, and things could have been eventually resolved without death.
But, I can’t ask cops to do what most really can’t. The result is all on the perp, follow orders, don’t be an idiot and reach for things especially when you are already in criminal trouble the cops are on edge.
Uh, I dunno back off and call for a social worker to defuse the situation?
I respect your opinion but I don't see how the cop did anything wrong.
It was a 2 on 1 situation where I assume both officers had guns.
I'd have most likely shouted "Stop or we'll open fire!" as both officers can draw.
The chances of the person being able to reach into the car and bring out a weapon and fire it accurately to hit anything before the officers who are presumably trained with guns is tiny unless the officers for some unknown reason had reaction times measured in hours.
No, I wouldn't open fire just because he reached into his car and I feel the training of the police should be good enough that 2 people should be able to handle an unruly suspect unless he's Mike Tyson.
You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.
He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.
You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.
the perp reaches into the car.
What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?
What would you do?
You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).
It was a 2 on 1 situation where I assume both officers had guns.
1) I'd have most likely shouted "Stop or we'll open fire!" as both officers can draw.
The chances of the person being able to reach into the car and bring out a weapon and fire it accurately to hit anything before the officers who are presumably trained with guns is tiny unless the officers for some unknown reason had reaction times measured in hours.
2) No, I wouldn't open fire just because he reached into his car and I feel the training of the police should be good enough that 2 people should be able to handle an unruly suspect unless he's Mike Tyson.
I am not sure how 2 makes a difference. It only takes one shot to kill you. Upyourmosrtwrn ,Igor then take him out as you die.
When would you shout stop or we will open fire? Only after you see the gun? Or as he is reaching in the car?
It seems that 1 and 2 are in direct conflict with each other. If the suspect does not stop (and instead proceeds to reach into a nearby vehicle) then why not make good on the threat (and open fire)?
You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.
He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.
You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.
the perp reaches into the car.
What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?
What would you do?
You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).
I'd at least try and get some evidence that a weapon is present in the car before blasting the guy into oblivion but I suppose I'm a soppy liberal who actually values human life.
I don't think deadly force was called for in this situation.
Reaching into a car is not worthy of a potential death sentence.
I guess we have this disagree. The context at large, given the violent resisting, and the history of the guy, and the continuing on toward the car in the face of lethal force being presented to him (the cops had already drawn there weapons and were ordering him to stop, he ignored their weapons and those warnings). This context raises the likelihood of the gun attack scenario. It’s not uncommon for Perps to be on drugs and feeling invincible.
I would say it is the perp that is not valuing life, or he would not continue on doing foolish things in the face of guns drawn on him.
And frankly I doubt you could back up that talk, and would likely have squeezed off a panicky shot well before the cop fired. Not a personal thing about you, but most would do the same.
Not let him just walk away to his car, grab him by more than his t-shirt and put him on the ground and in handcuffs. Happens all the time.
That's why I'm not a police officer and would require lots of training before being given a gun.
The police should have the training and discipline to be able to handle pressure situations like this without resorting to opening fire.
I am assuming you had the training. At some point yo do have resort to opening fire. That is the issue at hand. I believe the context of a violent perp ignoring lethal force aimed at him and continuing on his mission and reaches in a car allows for fire.
Also note it is reported that they had just wrestled with him, tased him, and couldn’t stop him with those methods. Only then did they draw weapons and command him to stop.
This paints a picture a s dangerous out of control perp. Would that change your take any if true?
You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.
He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.
You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.
the perp reaches into the car.
What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?
What would you do?
You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).
This all sounds like good policing yes. Perhaps they did that first, but then the action moved away from the vehicle. At some point they wrestled with him, tased him, he apparently is a kick assx fighter. So options have now dwindled.Back up a bit in your presented situation. There are things that could have been done before reaching the point of the suspect getting to the car and reaching in.
- The LEO should have called for backup way before approaching the "suspect". Reason. Kids in the car.
- One LEO should have checked on the kids and be position on the driver side of the car. That blocks the suspect from getting into the car.
- One LEO approach and confront the suspect.
‘I like the part above but I think these options would be considered bad policing and not part of their training. Too much can go wrong there. Slamming the door on him might not even hurt much and gives him cover to position a gun for fire, as the door sings back open, bang your dead.Now playing out your scene.
"
the perp reaches into the car."
- LEO has the gun out. Hit the suspect in the head with it.
or slam the car door on the suspect.
or kick his legs out at the knees.
Your selected choice.
go ahead and dirty harry the guy. "make my day". :mrgreen:
You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.
He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.
You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.
the perp reaches into the car.
What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?
What would you do?
You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).
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