• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Liberals: Put your science where your mouth is

OlNate said:
It's not just that though. Farmers don't make all that much margin. Sadly, with currently available agriculture practice alternatives, moving towards humane practices means taking meat and meat products out of the affordability range for a good chunk of consumers.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be worked on, just that it's another example of it being more complicated than the surface issue. It doesn't mean the conversation isn't worth having, but it's important to understand the true nature of the hurdles.
Click to expand...

Anything that prevents farms animals from being abused and neglected is worth talking about. Even if it does not lead to many changes in agriculture practices, just raising awareness of what "pasture-raised" and "cage-free" actually mean will lead more people who think livestock are just property to be discarded to realize all domestic birds, fish, and mammals, not just the species people keep in their homes, should be treated like pets.
 
Visbek said:
Well, I haven't had steak or a meat burger in a long, long, long time, and I don't feel any loss whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Good for you.
Heck, nearly a billion Hindus refuse to eat beef, and they're just fine. An Indian friend of mine asked me one day what the big deal was about red meat, and I was like "beats me, I don't think you're missing anything."

I might add that even die-hard carnivores apparently like the latest crop of plant-based burgers. I haven't had one, in part because I don't care for burgers in the first place, but also because I avoid highly processed food, and they aren't much healthier than beef burgers. That said, afaik they are better for the environment.
Click to expand...
Meh. Fine for you. I have no issue with you making those decisions for yourself. None at all. Peace be with you.

I was speaking for myself, enjoying the foods that I chose and enjoy, at least while I still have the opportunity to do so anyway.

townhall.com

Kamala Harris: Of Course We Must Regulate How Much Meat Americans Are Eating

townhall.com townhall.com

Top down, by the government gun, cram down. Just like everything else with this administration. So much for the 'unity' and 'healing' (heeling) little more than meaningless gums flapping.
 
ecofarm said:
It's dumb to suggest human nature is self centered ignorance and use that as your platform on why something that has gained greatly in popularity cannot catch on. Your whole argument is stupid and self serving.
Click to expand...

Yeah...you're probably right...lol... I mean, every innovation in our entire time on this planet has centered around making life more comfortable for ourselves, but what's that got to do with anything? lol...

And if you keep calling me names, I might think your temper is getting away on you, my dude...lol...
 
OlNate said:
And there it is...hehe... Because I'm not in lockstep, I can't be a progressive. I knew that was coming from someone, but I'm surprised it's coming from you.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you aren't a progressive. I said you are using conservative/anti-progressive arguments. And no one said all progressives need to be in lock-step. You think every progressive agrees with my georgist-leanings?




So, because I'm more interested in initiatives that take human nature into consideration,
Click to expand...

What does this even mean? Do you think it is human nature to lock cattle up in pens to be fattened with corn and pumped with antibiotics for us to consume? Do you think the amount of meat consumption is just human nature? These things are not the result of human nature, but capitalism; an economic model progressives tend to be critical of.

I'm not really interested in protecting the environment?
Click to expand...

Never said that.
 
Blue Donkey said:
Anything that prevents farms animals from being abused and neglected is worth talking about. Even if it does not lead to many changes in agriculture practices, just raising awareness of what "pasture-raised" and "cage-free" actually mean will lead more people who think livestock are just property to be discarded to realize all domestic birds, fish, and mammals, not just the species people keep in their homes, should be treated like pets.
Click to expand...

I agree. :) Talking about the hurdles is part of that conversation.
 
Geoist said:
I didn't say you aren't a progressive. I said you are using conservative/anti-progressive arguments. And no one said all progressives need to be in lock-step. You think every progressive agrees with my georgist-leanings?






What does this even mean? Do you think it is human nature to lock cattle up in pens to be fattened with corn and pumped with antibiotics for us to consume? Do you think the amount of meat consumption is just human nature?



Never said that.
Click to expand...

Alright then, let's proceed as if I were an individual with my own thoughts on stuff, and don't subscribe to that whole "conservative / progressive" arguments thing. These are Nate's arguments. :)
 
OlNate said:
Yeah...you're probably right...lol... I mean, every innovation in our entire time on this planet has centered around making life more comfortable for ourselves, but what's that got to do with anything? lol...

And if you keep calling me names, I might think your temper is getting away on you, my dude...lol...
Click to expand...

No one is calling you names. I'm criticizing your stupid and self serving "argument" and you have no reply except to play victim.
 
OlNate said:
Alright then, let's proceed as if I were an individual with my own thoughts on stuff, and don't subscribe to that whole "conservative / progressive" arguments thing. These are Nate's arguments. :)
Click to expand...

You want to excuse as 'human nature' the excesses/costs/symptoms of capitalism. Social darwinists liked to use the human nature argument, too.
 
Phys251 said:
Saw thread title. Clicked on it. What do you know, it's not an ignorant Covid-denier rant!

A plant-based diet is friendlier to the Earth than an omnivorous diet, yes.
Click to expand...

I like meat, but considering the population of the earth, we should probably be treating it as more of a luxury than a daily staple.
 
Visbek said:
Y'know, I actually can't stand bacon. I can appreciate the crispiness, but even at its best, it is way too greasy and way too salty. I have no idea why people obsess over it.
Click to expand...
Bake it on a rack so all the fat drains off. If I think about it literally, the fat is pretty gross. But give me some sourdough toast and homegrown tomatoes...oh yeah.
 
ecofarm said:
No one is calling you names. I'm criticizing your stupid and self serving "argument" and you have no reply except to play victim.
Click to expand...

Oh, you should know me better than to think I let someone's salt ruin my day. :) But thanks for making the distinction, it makes all the difference...lol... As for my reply, sorry, I can only take hangry vegetarians so seriously. I already told you you're taking this more seriously than I am. I can stop responding entirely if that would cheer you up.
 
Geoist said:
You want to excuse as 'human nature' the excesses/costs/symptoms of capitalism. Social darwinists liked to use the human nature argument, too.
Click to expand...

I'm not excusing anything. I'm saying that to accomplish the goals that we both claim to be important to us, we need to take it into consideration. Huge difference, man. Maybe the fact that I spent so long in logistics makes me think about efficiency first, I dunno... But it would appear you're hanging some stuff on me that doesn't belong there.
 
OlNate said:
Maybe the fact that I spent so long in logistics makes me think about efficiency first, I dunno...
Click to expand...
Inefficiencies is one of the main problems with animal products, as said in #1.
 
Antiwar said:
George HW and/or W Bush?
Click to expand...

Ah, sorry, slow day for me.
;)

Henry George, of course. But I prefer the term geoist. Georgist sounds too 'cultish.'
 
OlNate said:
I'm not excusing anything. I'm saying that to accomplish the goals that we both claim to be important to us, we need to take it into consideration. Huge difference, man. Maybe the fact that I spent so long in logistics makes me think about efficiency first, I dunno... But it would appear you're hanging some stuff on me that doesn't belong there.
Click to expand...

You're the one you introduced the term, man. I absolutely agree we need to be pragmatic. Nowhere am I arguing meat should be outright banned. I take issue with your dismissal of any movement towards more sustainable diets.
 
Geoist said:
You're the one you introduced the term, man. I absolutely agree we need to be pragmatic. Nowhere am I arguing meat should be outright banned. I take issue with your dismissal of any movement towards more sustainable diets.
Click to expand...

sigh...same question to you... What do you think about this?

www.theguardian.com

No-kill, lab-grown meat to go on sale for first time

Singapore’s approval of chicken cells grown in bioreactors is seen as landmark moment across industry
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

It's not dismissal, it's prioritization of directions that are more likely to succeed. The above is also a movement towards more sustainable diets, but with less ask on the part of society to sacrifice. What do you think has the greater chance of success?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom