- Joined
- Sep 28, 2011
- Messages
- 15,195
- Reaction score
- 11,431
- Location
- SF Bay Area
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Lost me at “squeals of denial!”
In every discussion of immigration in this forum, be it "the wall", asylum, or enforcement - one side is for promoting and protecting illegal conduct and some form of open borders, and the other is not.
Yes...yes... I am sure the squeals of denial from Dems and the left with be forthcoming, followed by a bottomless well of excuses for non-enforcement of the law and the defense of illegal aliens will be advanced - but let's be honest, actions speak far louder than words - at least in the last 15 to 20 years those actions have underscored the pro-immigrant lobby as mostly charlatans, flim-flamming grifters and useful idiots determined to do what they can to erase US sovereignty and resistance to unlimited migration.
For many years Democrats and some Republicans tried to at least portray themselves as tough on border security and illegal immigration, even as they insisted that border enforcement was negotiable in trade for amnesty, increased chain migration, and much higher quotas of legal immigration. On occasion they have slipped, such as Hillary in 2013 when she talked about her dream of open borders, but more often than not the talk was not the walk - quite the opposite (well at least until they demanded ICE be abolished).
To be fair, there are a few unhappy voices on the left that confess that the Democratic party has abandoned the interests of the heritage working class, and joined the Koch brothers libertarian right in squealing for "MORE"; left authors such as Peter Beinert, Angela Nagle, and Mickey Kaus acknowledge it. And in the meantime, cloistered liberal academics such as Joseph Carens and others busy themselves sermonizing on theories as to why open borders is the only just direction to immigration reform. But by an large the cover story is no longer plausible.
Surely the rest of us can be honest, honest not only too each other but to oneself. Be it Pelosi, Schumer, or the hundreds of towns and communities politicians that have declared themselves sanctuary cities (including mostly white and blue communities) the actions send one overwhelming din "Don't enforce the law and open the borders".
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/
In every discussion of immigration in this forum, be it "the wall", asylum, or enforcement - one side is for promoting and protecting illegal conduct and some form of open borders, and the other is not.
Stop lying.
Name one liberal member here on DP who is for open borders.
You can't, because there aren't any.
Lost me at “squeals of denial!”
Lost me with his opening sentence. I know of no liberals who want open borders. Modifying the term with "some form" is an admission the OP doesn't know of any either.
Trump, however, has it exactly backwards: The solution to America’s immigration problems is open borders, under which the United States imposes no immigration restrictions at all. If the U.S. adopts this policy, the benefits will far outweigh the costs.
Like half of the posters here.
You left out a large, and therefore important group, which also favors inaction on increased border security and interior immigration law enforcement - those that see immigration (legal or not) as necessary to avoid increased labor costs (typically republicants or conservatives). They often use (squeal?) terms like "jobs that US citizens will not do" or "jobs that require skills not available locally" when the real problem is that the wages/benefits offered are simply insufficient to attract and retain qualified labor or they wish to avoid the costs of training their workforce.
Like half of the posters here.
Name One......
OP is true, but my understanding is that between our rapidly aging population, and lower birth rates we have a situation where we need to import unskilled labor to provide the services we need long-term.
We could certainly be more honest about this, and simply expand legal immigration to a point that would give us the benefit, and accepting that actually reducing immigration would be devastating to the economy in the long run.
It's about our economy weathering these demographic shifts, and requires long-term planning.
That's a tough sell to many Americans, who broadly prefer the "**** you, I got mine!" school of thought.
Stop lying.
Name one liberal member here on DP who is for open borders.
You can't, because there aren't any.
Lost me at “squeals of denial!”
I am replying to one.
In every discussion of immigration in this forum, be it "the wall", asylum, or enforcement - one side is for promoting and protecting illegal conduct and some form of open borders, and the other is not.
Yes...yes... I am sure the squeals of denial from Dems and the left with be forthcoming, followed by a bottomless well of excuses for non-enforcement of the law and the defense of illegal aliens will be advanced - but let's be honest, actions speak far louder than words - at least in the last 15 to 20 years those actions have underscored the pro-immigrant lobby as mostly charlatans, flim-flamming grifters and useful idiots determined to do what they can to erase US sovereignty and resistance to unlimited migration.
For many years Democrats and some Republicans tried to at least portray themselves as tough on border security and illegal immigration, even as they insisted that border enforcement was negotiable in trade for amnesty, increased chain migration, and much higher quotas of legal immigration. On occasion they have slipped, such as Hillary in 2013 when she talked about her dream of open borders, but more often than not the talk was not the walk - quite the opposite (well at least until they demanded ICE be abolished).
To be fair, there are a few unhappy voices on the left that confess that the Democratic party has abandoned the interests of the heritage working class, and joined the Koch brothers libertarian right in squealing for "MORE"; left authors such as Peter Beinert, Angela Nagle, and Mickey Kaus acknowledge it. And in the meantime, cloistered liberal academics such as Joseph Carens and others busy themselves sermonizing on theories as to why open borders is the only just direction to immigration reform. But by an large the cover story is no longer plausible.
Surely the rest of us can be honest, honest not only too each other but to oneself. Be it Pelosi, Schumer, or the hundreds of towns and communities politicians that have declared themselves sanctuary cities (including mostly white and blue communities) the actions send one overwhelming din "Don't enforce the law and open the borders".
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/
Stop lying.
Name one liberal member here on DP who is for open borders.
You can't, because there aren't any.
In every discussion of immigration in this forum, be it "the wall", asylum, or enforcement - one side is for promoting and protecting illegal conduct and some form of open borders, and the other is not.
Yes...yes... I am sure the squeals of denial from Dems and the left with be forthcoming, followed by a bottomless well of excuses for non-enforcement of the law and the defense of illegal aliens will be advanced - but let's be honest, actions speak far louder than words - at least in the last 15 to 20 years those actions have underscored the pro-immigrant lobby as mostly charlatans, flim-flamming grifters and useful idiots determined to do what they can to erase US sovereignty and resistance to unlimited migration.
For many years Democrats and some Republicans tried to at least portray themselves as tough on border security and illegal immigration, even as they insisted that border enforcement was negotiable in trade for amnesty, increased chain migration, and much higher quotas of legal immigration. On occasion they have slipped, such as Hillary in 2013 when she talked about her dream of open borders, but more often than not the talk was not the walk - quite the opposite (well at least until they demanded ICE be abolished).
To be fair, there are a few unhappy voices on the left that confess that the Democratic party has abandoned the interests of the heritage working class, and joined the Koch brothers libertarian right in squealing for "MORE"; left authors such as Peter Beinert, Angela Nagle, and Mickey Kaus acknowledge it. And in the meantime, cloistered liberal academics such as Joseph Carens and others busy themselves sermonizing on theories as to why open borders is the only just direction to immigration reform. But by an large the cover story is no longer plausible.
Surely the rest of us can be honest, honest not only too each other but to oneself. Be it Pelosi, Schumer, or the hundreds of towns and communities politicians that have declared themselves sanctuary cities (including mostly white and blue communities) the actions send one overwhelming din "Don't enforce the law and open the borders".
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/
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