• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Less than 30% of Millennials Plan to Sign Up for Obamacare

ludin said:
They are making the right decision. They are not paying absurd prices for something they feel they don't need.

even if they went to the hospital cash is cheaper than insurance anyway way cheaper. it is insulting how much insurance companies are charging for things that cost 80-90% less if paid with cash.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can support that claim. I look forward to seeing it.
 
Born Free said:
Maybe you can support that claim. I look forward to seeing it.
Click to expand...

easy Many hospitals, doctors offer cash discount for medical bills - latimes.com

other doctors are offering full services for very cheap prices.
one doctor was offering full services for 10/month for a kid 50 for an adult and 90 for elderly.

he could get labs and blood work done for 8 dollars vs 80 that insurance charged.

now this doesn't mean i support a government run system that is even worse.

i support a free market HSA program with tax credits used to bolster upfront costs. that combined with cheap catastrophic plan would reduce healthcare costs greatly.

The reason that healthcare in the US is more expensive is that we are
Number 1 when it comes to medical equipment
number 1 when it comes to procedures
number 1 in drug research.

the reason that it is cheaper in other countries is that we do the majority of the RND before it gets to market.
 
Last edited:
ludin said:
easy Many hospitals, doctors offer cash discount for medical bills - latimes.com

other doctors are offering full services for very cheap prices.
one doctor was offering full services for 10/month for a kid 50 for an adult and 90 for elderly.

he could get labs and blood work done for 8 dollars vs 80 that insurance charged.

now this doesn't mean i support a government run system that is even worse.

i support a free market HSA program with tax credits used to bolster upfront costs. that combined with cheap catastrophic plan would reduce healthcare costs greatly.

The reason that healthcare in the US is more expensive is that we are
Number 1 when it comes to medical equipment
number 1 when it comes to procedures
number 1 in drug research.

the reason that it is cheaper in other countries is that we do the majority of the RND before it gets to market.
Click to expand...

I have heard cash is king with some doctors etc. That report lists drastic discounts. Dr. and hospitals use private health insurance for profit. Medicare and Medicaid offer every low margins and the Dr. and hospitals really don't want to take those patients. But cash, I sure don't know how wide spread this practice is. Meaning can a person call a hospital and ask for the cash price for any procedure? Same with any Dr. can you call for a cash price for a specific surgery or physical. Are any Dr's or hospitals advertising cash prices? I don't question it is not done paying for cash for medical services, but I do question how spread is it. If it is true that cash is common practice for huge discounts it is not known by the general public.

Maybe you have a better understanding of this practice.
 
Born Free said:
I have heard cash is king with some doctors etc. That report lists drastic discounts. Dr. and hospitals use private health insurance for profit. Medicare and Medicaid offer every low margins and the Dr. and hospitals really don't want to take those patients. But cash, I sure don't know how wide spread this practice is. Meaning can a person call a hospital and ask for the cash price for any procedure? Same with any Dr. can you call for a cash price for a specific surgery or physical. Are any Dr's or hospitals advertising cash prices? I don't question it is not done paying for cash for medical services, but I do question how spread is it. If it is true that cash is common practice for huge discounts it is not known by the general public.

Maybe you have a better understanding of this practice.
Click to expand...

Its very common, usually both the patient and the practitioner do better. Remember, part of the reason hospitals/docs charge so much is because only a small portion is reimbursed by insurance.
 
US Conservative said:
Its very common, usually both the patient and the practitioner do better. Remember, part of the reason hospitals/docs charge so much is because only a small portion is reimbursed by insurance.
Click to expand...

Not sure the logic works. If cash is 80 to 90% cheaper, then you say hospitals/docs charge so much is because only a small portion is reimbursed by insurance. If your logic works then
the insurance companies are only paying 80 to 90% of the bill, making cash and what the insurance companies pay are the same amount.

If that is the case then why don't the hospitals/docs just charge the cash rate and tell the insurance companies that is the charge and will not accept any deducts. Period.

Just wondering.
 
Last edited:
Born Free said:
Not sure the logic works. If cash is 80 to 90% cheaper, then you say hospitals/docs charge so much is because only a small portion is reimbursed by insurance. If your logic works then
the insurance companies are only paying 80 to 90% of the bill, making cash and what the insurance companies pay are the same amount.

If that is the case then why don't the hospitals/docs just charge the cash rate and tell the insurance companies that is the charge and will not accept any deducts. Period.

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

Its just evolved to this over the years. Im sure someone else can give you more info, but cash is typically best.
 
US Conservative said:
Its just evolved to this over the years. Im sure someone else can give you more info, but cash is typically best.
Click to expand...

Yes, I expect cash is the best, when is it not, as they don't have to go through all the loops the insurance companies make then go threw to process a claim. Plus they probably take 120 days or more to pay a claim.. Cash is no paper work and is payment NOW. And a thousand yr concept, cash is king.

I would like to see the hospitals/docs advertise for cash patients, showing their discounts. If this was known or advertised as a huge savings, I would think they would be swamped with cash buyers.
 
Fisher said:
Most of them don't need insurance. They can just declare bankruptcy for less than a year's premium will cost them. It isn't like they are going to have much of any in the way of assets beyond the homestead exemption.
Click to expand...

...because that is the right thing to do.
 
US Conservative said:
Like I said, most lefties dont know what Orwell knew. Most young people re quite healthy and if anything benefit from catastrophic coverage. In any case, you dont get to decide FOR them. Whats hard to understand here?
Click to expand...

Read thru this entire thread and see if I ever said I should decide for them. I'm just telling you what I think they should do, I'm surprised good advice is so controversial.
 
Born Free said:
You can try and sugar coat it any way you can. The bottom line is if you don't buy Obamacare you will pay a fine / tax call it what you will. Now tell me where else does this exist in any US legislation. You won't find it.



I'm ridiculous you say and you say that my absurd declaration that you don't have to have a home or transportation in today's world are just silly talk. Let me ask you, if my declarations are absurd whey do the liberals refuse and resist having an ID to vote. They use the excuse, millions don't have a drivers license and have no way to get one or a state ID.

So for people owning cars there are millions of people that don't own a car. I would venture to say that 90% of the residents of NY City don't own a car. As for owning a house is a good investment tell those that were hit in the housing free-fall and a all under water on their house investment.

But all that stuff is beside the point. There is only one piece of legislation that requires you to buy something or pay a fine. Now I asked before how would you like to live in a society that government can dictate to you to buy a GM car to help out the auto workers, or pay a fine, or buy a house to shore up the real estate market or pay a fine. These examples are exactly what Obamacare is.
Click to expand...

I'm for a voter ID. I don't know why liberals say that and point it on racism and all sorts of things. I'm not a liberal though, so maybe you should go ask them.

As far as healthcare goes, you still have plenty of options to go with healthcare, or yes pay a tax on a service that you WILL someday use. It is not a matter of if, but when.

But I'm concerned that just because one kind of legislation has never existed before, that you think that is grounds for it not being good. I guess in the 1700's when freedom of speech was coming out and no legislation like that had ever existed, that it must not have been good. Or social security. Or food stamps. They must all be bad, even though decades of research has shown how great those programs are.
 
drz-400 said:
...because that is the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

What do you think the 40 million uninsured who aren't going to have Obamacare or medicaid are going to do? It kind of blows the hole in the side of the SS Socialism when poor people fail to take advantage of this righteous opportunity allegedly provided to them.
 
Oh but OBAMA has a plan that you do not know about yet,,yes, he will force them if he stays in power?
 
hjl1991 said:
Well that's obvious. But he likely won't use his deductible, nor will co-pays cost much for him either. At the most, he might have a couple checkups a year. And if he has a preexisting condition, he's definitely paying far less now than he was a year or two ago.
Click to expand...

Wow, so it would be cheaper if he just pays the fine and doesn't have insurance at all.
 
hjl1991 said:
I'm for a voter ID. I don't know why liberals say that and point it on racism and all sorts of things. I'm not a liberal though, so maybe you should go ask them.

As far as healthcare goes, you still have plenty of options to go with healthcare, or yes pay a tax on a service that you WILL someday use. It is not a matter of if, but when.

But I'm concerned that just because one kind of legislation has never existed before, that you think that is grounds for it not being good. I guess in the 1700's when freedom of speech was coming out and no legislation like that had ever existed, that it must not have been good. Or social security. Or food stamps. They must all be bad, even though decades of research has shown how great those programs are.
Click to expand...

Freedom of speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

friend-put thine eyes upon this pillow.
 
Born Free said:
Yes, I expect cash is the best, when is it not, as they don't have to go through all the loops the insurance companies make then go threw to process a claim. Plus they probably take 120 days or more to pay a claim.. Cash is no paper work and is payment NOW. And a thousand yr concept, cash is king.

I would like to see the hospitals/docs advertise for cash patients, showing their discounts. If this was known or advertised as a huge savings, I would think they would be swamped with cash buyers.
Click to expand...

The last time i looked it up we spend about 60-75 cents of every dollar on administrative and malpractice costs.
A lot of the administrative work is doctors having to fill out insurance forms and trying to get the insurance companies to pay.

A really good friend of mine is a doctor and he was thinking of going to an all cash service. He spent more time filling out paperwork
than actually treating patients. then he would have to fight insurance companies for payments. i know at one point in time
he was owed about 50k dollars and was having to fight and scrape to get the insurance companies to pay.

that costs even more money.

hospitals i don't think can advertise discounts. what i find interesting is that a hospital will advertise an CT or MRI for 5000 dollars. insurance negotiated rate is 2000. yet if you call
and say i only have cash how much is an MRI or CT? 250-400 seems to be the range depending on the hosiptal.

I know i went to get a place removed the clinic said it would be 50% cheaper without insurance but it was considered preventive so my insurance company covered it.

The reason that car insurance is so cheap is that your car insurance doesn't pay for every tire, oil, and other mechanical break down. it only pays if you are in a wreck.
we wonder why health insurance is so expensive when we use it for ever sneeze.

this is why i am for a national HSA. it would require a major overhaul of the tax system, but it works in singapore very well.
 
hjl1991 said:
I'm for a voter ID. I don't know why liberals say that and point it on racism and all sorts of things. I'm not a liberal though, so maybe you should go ask them.

As far as healthcare goes, you still have plenty of options to go with healthcare, or yes pay a tax on a service that you WILL someday use. It is not a matter of if, but when.

But I'm concerned that just because one kind of legislation has never existed before, that you think that is grounds for it not being good. I guess in the 1700's when freedom of speech was coming out and no legislation like that had ever existed, that it must not have been good. Or social security. Or food stamps. They must all be bad, even though decades of research has shown how great those programs are.
Click to expand...

:doh Why is this so hard, all those things you mentioned I'm not forced to buy or pay a fine. Obamacare does require me buy it or pay a fine.

I see you continue to refuse to not answer my question I presented to you. I repeat how would like to live under a government that decided that you have to buy a GM car to help out the auto unions or pay a fine? Or how about you be forced to buy a house to shore up the housing market or pay a fine? Because this is exactly what Obamacare is doing. You have not addressed this basic premise that Obamacare makes you do. Have at it.
 
Born Free said:
:doh Why is this so hard, all those things you mentioned I'm not forced to buy or pay a fine. Obamacare does require me buy it or pay a fine.

I see you continue to refuse to not answer my question I presented to you. I repeat how would like to live under a government that decided that you have to buy a GM car to help out the auto unions or pay a fine? Or how about you be forced to buy a house to shore up the housing market or pay a fine? Because this is exactly what Obamacare is doing. You have not addressed this basic premise that Obamacare makes you do. Have at it.
Click to expand...

Technically after the last court ruling the government has the power to do exactly that.
by approving obamacare as a tax the supreme court said that the government can force you to buy a specific product or service as long as they put a tax on it.

by all definitions one of the worst rulings in history, and it came from the one guy that everyone thought would defend the constitution.
 
Born Free said:
:doh Why is this so hard, all those things you mentioned I'm not forced to buy or pay a fine. Obamacare does require me buy it or pay a fine.

I see you continue to refuse to not answer my question I presented to you. I repeat how would like to live under a government that decided that you have to buy a GM car to help out the auto unions or pay a fine? Or how about you be forced to buy a house to shore up the housing market or pay a fine? Because this is exactly what Obamacare is doing. You have not addressed this basic premise that Obamacare makes you do. Have at it.
Click to expand...

I thought I did answer it when I said healthcare still has many options. With the model, you can still choose a Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc (Your carrier). You can still choose from there whether you want a car, suv, truck, hybrid, etc. (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). You just aren't presenting a good comparison.

As far as being forced to buy a house or pay a fine? You will pay property taxes in your lifetime (your "fine"). You will pay them every year of your life, whether you know it or not. Even if you are renting, renters calculate property taxes into your final rent price. You can't get out of it. And you will find a place to live, because shelter is a necessity in life. You refuse to refute that you need a house. Do you really find it realistic that you can choose to go live in a tent the rest of your life?

Anyway, I'm apologize if it appears I'm not answering some of your questions. Limitations of not speaking face to face and whatnot.
 
hjl1991 said:
I thought I did answer it when I said healthcare still has many options. With the model, you can still choose a Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc (Your carrier). You can still choose from there whether you want a car, suv, truck, hybrid, etc. (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). You just aren't presenting a good comparison.

As far as being forced to buy a house or pay a fine? You will pay property taxes in your lifetime (your "fine"). You will pay them every year of your life, whether you know it or not. Even if you are renting, renters calculate property taxes into your final rent price. You can't get out of it. And you will find a place to live, because shelter is a necessity in life. You refuse to refute that you need a house. Do you really find it realistic that you can choose to go live in a tent the rest of your life?

Anyway, I'm apologize if it appears I'm not answering some of your questions. Limitations of not speaking face to face and whatnot.
Click to expand...

This is just not true.

There are plenty of people that live in large cities that do not own a car.
There are plenty of people that do not own houses either.

You have to reach really far to get to the point that those are the same as the ACA.

The thing is you can choose to rent or buy a home. when you buy a home there are other obligations that you willingly take on.
that includes property taxes and insurance etc ...

same as wanting to drive a car. there are certain obligations that you accept. insurance, license, tags etc ...
this is not the same as the ACA. they are not even comparable.

there is no choice when it comes to obamacare.
 
ludin said:
This is just not true.

There are plenty of people that live in large cities that do not own a car.
There are plenty of people that do not own houses either.

You have to reach really far to get to the point that those are the same as the ACA.

The thing is you can choose to rent or buy a home. when you buy a home there are other obligations that you willingly take on.
that includes property taxes and insurance etc ...

same as wanting to drive a car. there are certain obligations that you accept. insurance, license, tags etc ...
this is not the same as the ACA. they are not even comparable.

there is no choice when it comes to obamacare.
Click to expand...

But absolutely everyone uses and pays for the transportation system. Everyone, even if they don't have a car, uses some sort of public transportation, and we all pay taxes for the roads and highways, even the large percentage of roads that we will never use.

Everyone lives somewhere. Period. You are being juvenile at this point. Not owning a house =/= not paying for housing.

"The thing is you can choose to rent or buy a home(Get catastrophic insurance, bronze, silver, gold, platinum, or pay a tax). when you buy a home there are other obligations that you willingly take on. (Right, like paying for renovations and being forced to have insurance)
that includes property taxes and insurance etc ..."

Wait, are you saying you have to get house insurance if you buy a house? That's insane, where's your freedom of choice! /s
Are you saying you have to have auto insurance if you buy a car?
But you don't need health coverage if you live and breathe.....

Anyway, I think I've made my point clear that you do indeed have a choice and that there is little to no stretch with ACA. I'd much rather go to a single payer system and definitely fix many issues, but as far as forcing people to have health insurance.... yeah I'm all for that, just like house insurance and auto insurance.

I'll let you have the last word. Thanks for the good debate :)
 
Anyway, I think I've made my point clear that you do indeed have a choice and that there is little to no stretch with ACA. I'd much rather go to a single payer system and definitely fix many issues, but as far as forcing people to have health insurance.... yeah I'm all for that, just like house insurance and auto insurance
Click to expand...

you can continue to think this but you don't have a choice when it comes to obamacare. you either get health insurance that costs a fortune or you pay a fine.
No a single payer system would cause way more issues than obamacare is doing.

you don't have to have home insurance if you don't own a home and you don't have to have car insurance unless you want to drive a car. they are not one in the same.
 
hjl1991 said:
I thought I did answer it when I said healthcare still has many options. With the model, you can still choose a Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc (Your carrier). You can still choose from there whether you want a car, suv, truck, hybrid, etc. (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). You just aren't presenting a good comparison.

As far as being forced to buy a house or pay a fine? You will pay property taxes in your lifetime (your "fine"). You will pay them every year of your life, whether you know it or not. Even if you are renting, renters calculate property taxes into your final rent price. You can't get out of it. And you will find a place to live, because shelter is a necessity in life. You refuse to refute that you need a house. Do you really find it realistic that you can choose to go live in a tent the rest of your life?

Anyway, I'm apologize if it appears I'm not answering some of your questions. Limitations of not speaking face to face and whatnot.
Click to expand...

So you agree and are OK with a government forcing you to buy a house or pay a fine. And you use property taxes that makes it all right to be forced to buy a house or pay a fine. So let me put this together, government can force you to buy a house or pay a fine and in addition you have to pay property taxes. It's OK with you that government can force you to buy a GM car to shore up the Unions or pay a fine. It's OK for government to force you to buy anything it wants you to buy even though you may have no use for it.

And you say you're not a liberal. Impossible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom