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Left Wing Nuts (LWNs) Please Defend Iran's current regime.

Gamago25

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LWNs, In so many words please defend your reasoning as to why an oppressive and terrorist sponsoring theocratic regime such as Iran's should continue to exist in a secular world with respect to human rights and freedoms?

Or do you believe that people should be governed and oppressed by religious rule?

And before you try to sidestep and point to other oppressive dictatorial nations, i dont agree with thier existance either, and support thier overthrow as well.
 

Schweddy

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Welcome to Debate Politics.

I think alot of the negative from the liberals is just because Bush was involved. Nothing else.
 

Gamago25

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This never surprises me that LWNs never try to defend this.

For all the arguements they make, this is the one they cant defend against

and hence, silence.......


The US has the right to initiate the overthrow of Iran's regime for moral reasons alone.
 

vandree

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The US has the right to initiate the overthrow of Iran's regime for moral reasons alone
why? And what moral reasons are you talking about?
 

Gamago25

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As explained above:

The MORAL reasons for installing a democratic and secular govt that respects religious freedoms and human rights (including for women) over the continued existence of oppressive regimes that dictate religious rule and oppression of human rights.

Sorry if you cant understand the concept of morality of democratic secularism over theocratic rule, in terms of human rights and religious freedom.

But most "progressives" cant.


:mrgreen:
 

GarzaUK

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Gamago25 said:
LWNs, In so many words please defend your reasoning as to why an oppressive and terrorist sponsoring theocratic regime such as Iran's should continue to exist in a secular world with respect to human rights and freedoms?

Or do you believe that people should be governed and oppressed by religious rule?

And before you try to sidestep and point to other oppressive dictatorial nations, i dont agree with thier existance either, and support thier overthrow as well.
From Oxford Dictionary

liberal

1 willing to respect and accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own.
2 (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms.
3 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate reform.
4 (Liberal) (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat party.
7 (of education) concerned with broadening general knowledge and experience.

I don't why you assume that we don't want the Iranians to have freedom, freedom is everything liberals stand for. We are not for dictators like you assume we are, althougth U.S. republicans and democrats have supported and aided dictators and overthrew democracy leaders as well.

I have no doubt that given time every nation will turn to democracy, it seems to be the natural way of things. The west has been commited to help the young revoultion in Iran by both sides, so I don't know what your point is.

The most sucessful democracies are made by internal revolutions or the slow pace of time, not by force from an external foriegn force.
If the west helps with an internal revolution done by the Iranians themselves, I would fully support it.

The thing that amazes me the most is that Republicans are calling Iraq and Afghanistan a sucess, yet they have yet to last a full year in their democratic lifespan. You would be surprised how fragile democracy is, especially when it is starting.
 

GarzaUK

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Gamago25 said:
As explained above:

The MORAL reasons for installing a democratic and secular govt that respects religious freedoms and human rights (including for women).
Do you know how hard it is for an Islamic nation to have a secular government? Eygpt possibly is secular, but is ruled by a dictator. Turkey is run by fundalmentalists. Iraq is certainly not secular.
 

Gamago25

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""The west has been commited to help the young revoultion in Iran by both sides, so I don't know what your point is.""


1. Please state what "liberal" institutions are actively involved in formenting internal democratic revolution in Iran, besides the US and special forces.

2. Considering your statement that both sides of the political spectrum are helping an internal democratic revolution in Iran, then you are supportive for the overthrow of Iran's Clerical Regime?


Im for it, so i have no probs if you are for it also.

I'm talkin about those "liberals" who say we shouldnt be involved in the overthrow of the Clerical regime, period.


Love it or Leave it, Afghanistan/ Iraq were just stepping stones to the overthrow of theocratic rule in Iran.


I sleep better knowing this, progressive liberals dont.


:mrgreen:
 

Gamago25

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GarzaUK said:
Do you know how hard it is for an Islamic nation to have a secular government? Eygpt possibly is secular, but is ruled by a dictator. Turkey is run by fundalmentalists. Iraq is certainly not secular.


I dont care how hard it is to install, it is morally just to have secular rule over theocratic rule, and until fanatical muslims in the middle east embrace this, they will continue to die until they embrace religious freedom and human rights for all.

The Secular world is tired of having religion being imposed by force and terror. After 9/11 we are striking back.

The US has the moral right to spread democracy, women's rights, and religious freedom over theocratic and dictatorial tyranny.

But "liberals" cry it's too hard, so they stick thier head in the sand and give up, or they convert to islam.


:mrgreen:
 
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GarzaUK

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Gamago25 said:
they will continue to die until they embrace religious freedom and human rights for all.
Ah that says it all.

Gamago25 said:
The Secular world is tired of having religion being imposed by force and terror. After 9/11 we are striking back.
You see I'm getting confused here, because I thought this is what Bush was trying to do to secular America. Gay marriage, stem cell research ring any bells. Not by force and terror obviously, but imposed on nevertheless.[/QUOTE]

Gamago25 said:
But "liberals" cry it's too hard, so they stick thier head in the sand and give up, or they convert to islam.
I'm still waiting for the conservatives to create a pure secular Islam nation lol lol.
 

Gamago25

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GarzaUK said:
Ah that says it all.
Yes as long as fanatical muslims around the world continue to actively try to create and spread an Islamic State under Theocratic rule (currently in various parts of the world) BY FORCE, they will be faced WITH FORCE by those who wish to remain secular and value thier freedoms.

Would you prefer we embrace thier swords, guns, and bombs with submittal to Allah?

But i am sure if it was a fanatical christian trying to impose his religion, you would fight to the death against it. But not against Islam, interesting.

:mrgreen:


GarzaUK said:
You see I'm getting confused here, because I thought this is what Bush was trying to do to secular America. Gay marriage, stem cell research ring any bells. Not by force and terror obviously, but imposed on nevertheless.
Are you trying to compare proposals that go through a democratically elected Congress and subject to a Bill of Rights, with direct religious rule, with religious courts and religious punishments such as beheadings for religious expression and death for girls who get raped?


apples and oranges,

but still at least in the secular world, liberals have the freedom to publically disagree and protections according to law to protest. Those suffering under religious rule do not.

And you wish to keep them from having the same freedoms u enjoy?

How progressive of you.

:mrgreen:
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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Gamago25 said:
I dont care how hard it is to install, it is morally just to have secular rule over theocratic rule, and until fanatical muslims in the middle east embrace this, they will continue to die until they embrace religious freedom and human rights for all.
You don't care how hard it is to install... How many lives are you willing to see die in order to achieve such a thing? Give me a number.

The US has the moral right to spread democracy, women's rights, and religious freedom over theocratic and dictatorial tyranny.

But "liberals" cry it's too hard, so they stick thier head in the sand and give up, or they convert to islam.
A moral right? And who has given us such a thing?
 

Arch Enemy

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Here we go again.

Please use the word Liberal correctly, if we supported the current Iranian Government then we'd be Conservative, not Liberal.

I believe you're generalizing, I don't support Iran, but the only way we would stop them is through violence and I'd rather them stay in power then throw them into war. How can you support any kind of war? That means you support the killing of innocents and the ending of lives just because they think different then us?

I love it how the Right-Wing Nut Jobs think that we shouldn't play political police, though whenever something like this occurs, we're the first ones to want action. Do you actually care about people or do you just want us to take out threats to America? That's exactly what you're talking about when you want us to focus more on Iran than that of Sudan.

The Iran Conflict should be handled by the European Union at this time. We have our own problems to deal with, we can't play political police.

People are looking at this like "ok we need to stop Iran" but they fail to notice the fact that in stopping Iran we'd endanger the lives of people. Remember government isn't anything without the people for which it governs.

I am a Christian, I attend a Southern Baptist Church, we have a slave door on the side of our church. But unlike many other Christians, I see the fact that these Muslims have been living under strict Theocratic Governments forever, it's part of their traditions. True, it goes against our beliefs, that Women should cover their face in public... but that is their traditions, anyone who tries to disrupt their traditions are not helping in any way.

What if a Muslim country invaded America and started changing our traditions? It'd be a terrible event, that's because we don't see things the way these Muslims do. They have a more aggressive society than that of America, which is why we fear them.

I have first hand experience of America trying to take charge in another country, in which no-body except American officials wanted the change to happen. This event was Venezuela, I remember hearing from NEWS that Hugo Chavez was a terrible person that the people wanted him to leave their country.. my friends that is total BS, the people love Hugo Chavez. It's not like it wasn't apparent that our officials were wrong of the situation, the citizens of Venezuela had "VOTA NO!" graffiti-ed on many things.. that was meaning no for the recall of Hugo Chavez.


Sorry about just ram-balling on and on about these things, most of which shouldn't make any since for it is just ram-balling. I'm just disturbed with the fact that we want to destroy these traditions of these people, just because we feel like it's wrong..

It's not LWN, it's LWP, Left Wing Pansies.
 

akyron

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Gamago25 said:
LWNs, In so many words please defend your reasoning as to why an oppressive and terrorist sponsoring theocratic regime such as Iran's should continue to exist in a secular world with respect to human rights and freedoms?

Or do you believe that people should be governed and oppressed by religious rule?

And before you try to sidestep and point to other oppressive dictatorial nations, i dont agree with thier existance either, and support thier overthrow as well.

Liberal democrat socialists hippie bleeding heart whatevers probably do not want to keep Iran's oppressive regime (Unless of course they are making money off them like france and Germany). They just do not want to work for change when it requires sacrifice and bloodshed. This is understandable but nothing worth having comes without a price tag. Maintaining status quo and letting other generations deal with the problems seems to be the attitude of today. Whining for peace for a dozen years while United Nation fat cats made a mint off oil for food programs is more their speed.
 

Gamago25

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You don't care how hard it is to install... How many lives are you willing to see die in order to achieve such a thing? Give me a number.?


How many lives were necessary to insure democracy and religious freedom in WWII?

Were they too many for you?

I think so.

And yes I served, and continue to serve. At least I'm doing something. Unlike you who does NOTHING. No excuses mr. 17, i joined when i was your age.



Gandhi>Bush said:
A moral right? And who has given us such a thing.




Me, myself, and I, who has created a whim that man and woman deserve to live in a free democratic world that respects religious freedom and human rights.

UNLIKE YOU who would cater to the whims of an oppressive theocratic regimes as long as it's against the current administration in the US.

:mrgreen:
 

vandree

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Gamago25 said:
As explained above:

The MORAL reasons for installing a democratic and secular govt that respects religious freedoms and human rights (including for women) over the continued existence of oppressive regimes that dictate religious rule and oppression of human rights.
That's all nice, but that's not the answer to my question. My question was why do the United States have the moral right?


Sorry if you cant understand the concept of morality of democratic secularism over theocratic rule, in terms of human rights and religious freedom.
I am all for a secular government - to be honest, if t was up to me all religions would be gone.




The US has the moral right to spread democracy, women's rights, and religious freedom over theocratic and dictatorial tyranny.
Maybe then the US should start doing that at home?.... Using torture, imprisoning people for long periods of time without charging them somehow doesn't sound too democratic to me.


I dont care how hard it is to install, it is morally just to have secular rule over theocratic rule
You may want to remind Bush of that ;)
 

akyron

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Arch Enemy said:
I'm just disturbed with the fact that we want to destroy these traditions of these people, just because we feel like it's wrong..

It's not LWN, it's LWP, Left Wing Pansies.

According to the human rights group Amnesty International, a young Iranian women was publicly hanged in the northern Iranian city of Neka. Atefeh Rajabi, is believed to have been only sixteen years old. She was executed after being convicted of so-called, quote, "acts incompatible with chastity." The man she was arrested with was whipped and released.
Yes, it was approved by the supreme court of Tehran

sura 4:34, that has been interpreted to say that men have "pre-eminence" over women or that they are "overseers" of women. The verse goes on to say that the husband of an insubordinate wife should first admonish her, then leave her to sleep alone and finally beat her. Wife beating is so prevalent in the Muslim world that social workers who assist battered women in Egypt, for example, spend much of their time trying to convince victims that their husbands' violent acts are unacceptable.
Beatings are not the worst of female suffering. Each year hundreds of Muslim women die in "honor killings"-- murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes. Typically, the killers are punished lightly, if at all. In Jordan a man who slays his wife or a close relative after catching her in the act of adultery is exempt from punishment. If the situation only suggests illicit sex, he gets a reduced sentence.


Female circumcision, also called female genital mutilation, is another case in point. It involves removing part or all of a girl's clitoris and labia in an effort to reduce female sexual desire and thereby preserve chastity.

A few traditions here. I wonder if the hanged girl or any of the girls with their privates cut out might have had disagreements with some of these.
 

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Once again liberals would rather focus on the US and the REPUBLICAN adminsistration than on countries that oppress thier people through direct and OVERT theocratic rule.

Regardless of the fact that US Congress can override a presidential veto, unlike Iran.


Fortunately I was one of those life-long Democrats who refused to vote for Kerry. (I voted for Gore but refused to vote for Communist Kerry)


What are you LWNs going to do when Hillary tells you to Shut The FAWK up and vote for her centrist campaign.

You lost your voice in 2004.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!



Fawking "liberal" posers are all you are here.



:mrgreen:
 

Gamago25

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Furthermore, would you say Iran has more of a moral right to oppress religious freedoms, than the US has to spread religious freedoms?



please explain libby .

:mrgreen:
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Gamago25 said:
How many lives were necessary to insure democracy and religious freedom in WWII?

Were they too many for you?

I think so.

And yes I served, and continue to serve. At least I'm doing something. Unlike you who does NOTHING. No excuses mr. 17, i joined when i was your age.
At 17, you were enlisted to go to foriegn countries and kill other 17 year olds. And you still have a tolerance for war? Can you really not see how disgusting that is? I'm not meaning you are disgusting, I'm meaning the idea is disgusting. I respect veterans, I do not respect war.

Seriously, give me a number. How many lives is it worth? How many 17 year olds?

Me, myself, and I, who has created a whim that man and woman deserve to live in a free democratic world that respects religious freedom and human rights.

UNLIKE YOU who would cater to the whims of an oppressive theocratic regimes as long as it's against the current administration in the US.

:mrgreen:
I don't have a problem with you wanting everyone to be free. I have a problem with you willing throw people to war to get us there. I have no problem with the US. I have a problem with oppressive theocratic regimes. I have a huge problem with war.

I also have a problem with someone forceing this argument to be personal. Once again, as I have said in every other thread that you have attacked my ideas and my character in: You do not know my ideas. You do not know my character. You do not know me. So please, knock it off.
 

Gamago25

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No soldier wants to go to war, we generally prefer peacetime in which we can drink, dance, meet girls, and cruise the strip/beach, and then do our wargaming in the field.

But when it's on, it's on.


You can talk peacefully to these theocratic regimes all day, all they hear is whaaa whaaa whaa whhaaa, and think WHERE IS MY TRIBUTE???? After all, according to them, thier religion is superior to every other religion (be it Hindu or Buddhist as well). It wont stop them from exerting thier theocratic will or paying people on the side to blow shyt up.

And face it, until your young aspiring mind figures out an energy alternative that is capable of powering the world's shipping and transportation and logistical needs, besides oil (its not all about commuter cars to work), the US will be involved in the middle east just like everyone else is.


How many more people need to die by fanatical Islamists intent on spreading islamic rule around the world, before you step up.

Or are u already converted to thier faith?



:mrgreen:
 
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vandree

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How many more people need to die by fanatical Islamists intent on spreading islamic rule around the world, before you step up.

You keep on repeating that, but I can't think of one terrorist attack that was carried on for the purpose of spreading Islamic rule. If anything these fanatics are trying to tell us not to stick our noses where they don't belong...
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Gamago, how about we, together, try to defuse this problem rather than blow it up. Let's start from the ground up.

Why do they hate us Gamago? Why do they want us dead?
 

Gamago25

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vandree said:
You keep on repeating that, but I can't think of one terrorist attack that was carried on for the purpose of spreading Islamic rule. If anything these fanatics are trying to tell us not to stick our noses where they don't belong...

Really now...... You forget Chechnya in Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kasmir Province in India, Iraq, Sudan, Algeria (with the french), Phillipines, Lebanon, and other areas of the world.


Sort of blindsighted of you, dont you think.
 
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Gamago25

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Why do they hate us Gamago? Why do they want us dead?

because we are Non Believers and Infidels according to thier holy Koran. and accordingly it is ok to kill non believers and spread Islamic rule.



But in your mind, no one dies from not converting to islam in the world.
Just ask the Sudanese refugees.


/sarcasm off.
 
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