Lech Walesa Calls For “Liberation of Russia”, Reducing Its Population To Less Than Fifty Million People”

[Tigerace117]

You are a tankie, you have defended Russia and their invasion at every ****ing opportunity. My problem is that you and your article are painting like it is some kind of Western conspiracy to genocide Russians. Rather than an unrealistic and insane plan by one guy to contain Russia's agression.

You are the literal definition of whataboutism.

Yawn. As already established, your hysterical accusations of me being a “tankie” because I refuse to hold the West to a lower standard than we claim to hold the rest of the world is totally meaningless.

Your problem is that you are trying to defend Walesa’s insane scheme when there is no defense for it. The Russians didn’t force Walesa to come up with a plan which would kill millions of innocent people....he did that all on his own. You can throw a tantrum because people refuse to ignore it all you want, it can’t change the facts.

Which causes you to toss out totally meaningless shrieks of “whataboutism”....which, likewise, can’t change a damn thing.

 

[Carjosse]

Yawn. As already established, your hysterical accusations of me being a “tankie” because I refuse to hold the West to a lower standard than we claim to hold the rest of the world is totally meaningless.

Your problem is that you are trying to defend Walesa’s insane scheme when there is no defense for it. The Russians didn’t force Walesa to come up with a plan which would kill millions of innocent people....he did that all on his own. You can throw a tantrum because people refuse to ignore it all you want, it can’t change the facts.

Which causes you to toss out totally meaningless shrieks of “whataboutism”....which, likewise, can’t change a damn thing.

I condemned it as an insane and unrealistic. It doesn't change the fact Russia is commiting genocide, it doesn't change the fact the Saudis are too. Both need to be condemned, go support the efforts in Congress to put restrictions on Saudi Arabia.

See it is not that hard.

 

[Tigerace117]

I condemned it as an insane and unrealistic. It doesn't change the fact Russia is commiting genocide, it doesn't change the fact the Saudis are too. Both need to be condemned, go support the efforts in Congress to put restrictions on Saudi Arabia.

See it is not that hard.

Gee, and then you turned around and started trying to defend “partition”, ignoring the fact that it would lead to tens of millions of deaths and be downright genocidal.

And, as the Saudis are committing genocide with full western complicity, the administrations responsible for it— including the current one— need to face justice.....and of course, never will.

Instead, the West will continue howling “but Russia” as we fund and support the Saudi regime, pouring in vast amounts of aid and support. The hypocrisy is damning.

But that is beside the point.....which is that no amount of howling about “tankies” excuses Walesa’s insane scheme.

 

[maxparrish]

“Former President of Poland Lech Walesa, called on the West to reduce Russia’s population to less than 50 million, in an interview with French media, as reported on Monday, July 11.
Poland’s former President spoke on reducing Russia’s population claiming that the West should help Ukraine by “liberating Russia”, stating:

“Even if Ukraine wins this war, in five years we will have the same thing, in 10 years there will be another Putin,” assessed Walesa, as reported by Do Rzeczy.

Russia’s population should not exceed 50 million, he said, adding that “60 nations have been annexed by Russia”.

The Russian Federation now has a population of 144 million.“

“ Russia should have been destroyed, but Gorbachev was too clever for that. We said to ourselves at the time: “There was Stalin, Brezhnev, but Gorbachev is nice”. So we left them alone,” he stated.”

“Reduce Russia’s population to less than 50M” says former President of Poland

Poland’s former President spoke on reducing Russia’s population claiming that the West should help Ukraine by “liberating Russia”, stating: “Even if Ukraine wins this war, in five years we will have…

euroweeklynews.com

Sad to see someone who was once a great statesman has gone completely insane. Apparently Walesa has forgotten nuclear weapons are a thing.....and is actively calling for the murder of tens of millions of people in the name of “destroying Russia”.

Not sure if this is the last gasp of someone desperate to stay relevant or whether anyone else is dumb enough to agree with his ravings, but it’s still disturbing to see someone so causally call for the murder of roughly two thirds of Russia’s population.

I find it far sadder that someone who has led his people out of the yoke of the Russian imperialism has to say the obvious, i.e.; Russia will never cease being Russia unless its people are brought to their knees under occupation and, like the Germans and Japanese, the hyper nationalist need to turn others into vassals hammered out of them.

You know that I have always predicted Russia would act true to its pathological form and was fully confident that this current state of affairs was inevitable, such is the nature of the collective Russian culture.

I've never been fooled by Putin, nor seduced by the Kumbaya idiocy "Can't we all get along" fluffy brained delusion of rapprochement.

If all of Europe wishes to rid itself of the malignancy of Russia, it must be fully neutered. Perhaps the world should start discussing the Morgenthau plan for post war Germany as a starting point, no reason to let a good plan far more suitable for Russia go to waste.

Russia as an agricultural society, deindustrialized, broken into several parts, and its strategic weak points occupied jointly by European powers. In sufficient time its population could be reduced by half, the only suitable industry remaining being raw materials and fossil fuels.

As a repeat offender against its neighbors, I think it long overdue.

PS I found another who echos the same thought, a Latvian journalist: .

 

[Tigerace117]

I find it far sadder that someone who has led his people out of the yoke of the Russian imperialism has to say the obvious, i.e.; Russia will never cease being Russia unless its people are brought to their knees under occupation and, like the Germans and Japanese, the hyper nationalist need to turn others into vassals hammered out of them.

You know that I have always predicted Russia would act true to its pathological form and was fully confident that this current state of affairs was inevitable, such is the nature of the collective Russian culture.

I've never been fooled by Putin, nor seduced by the Kumbaya idiocy "Can't we all get along" fluffy brained delusion of rapprochement.

If all of Europe wishes to rid itself of the malignancy of Russia, it must be fully neutered. Perhaps the world should start discussing the Morgenthau plan for post war Germany as a starting point, no reason to let a good plan far more suitable for Russia go to waste.

Russia as an agricultural society, deindustrialized, broken into several parts, and its strategic weak points occupied jointly by European powers. In sufficient time its population could be reduced by half, the only suitable industry remaining being raw materials and fossil fuels.

As a repeat offender against its neighbors, I think it long overdue.

PS I found another who echos the same thought, a Latvian journalist: .

Unfortunately for you, nuclear weapons ensure that your dreams of a “Russian Morgenthau Plan” can never come true. The fact that anyone would actually advocating replicated said plan—despite the fact that historians have throughly established what a disaster for all involved it would have been—is almost as insane as Walesa’s scheme.

There is zero reason why Russia would accept any such plan, no matter what the west did.

“Jointly occupied by European powers”? What European states are going to be dumb enough to commit to a quagmire that would make Iraq and Afghanistan look like child’s play? The Germans can tell you all about how much “fun” trying to fight Russian partisans is.

 

[maxparrish]

Unfortunately for you, nuclear weapons ensure that your dreams of a “Russian Morgenthau Plan” can never come true. The fact that anyone would actually advocating replicated said plan—despite the fact that historians have throughly established what a disaster for all involved it would have been—is almost as insane as Walesa’s scheme.

There is zero reason why Russia would accept any such plan, no matter what the west did.

“Jointly occupied by European powers”? What European states are going to be dumb enough to commit to a quagmire that would make Iraq and Afghanistan look like child’s play? The Germans can tell you all about how much “fun” trying to fight Russian partisans is.

You mean "unfortunately" for any national peoples within reach of the Russia. As a practical matter it may never be, but war with Russia is as certain as winter - Putin was merely the final capstone confirming what most of us should have known.

Besides, I am increasingly convinced that nuclear war wouldn't be an option pursued; the war in Ukraine confirms that within conventional war norms, the destruction of the Russian army does not require occupation. And the utter ruin of Russia is possible, as surely as the ruin of W1 Germany could be accomplished.

Not an optimal solution compared to occupation, but this time around leverage would create terms of peace far more enforceable that that imposed on Germany. Russia would have no choice, it's industry extinguished, it's people exhausted, it's sea borne trade blockaded.

 

[Tigerace117]

You mean "unfortunately" for any national peoples within reach of the Russia. As a practical matter it may never be, but war with Russia is as certain as winter - Putin was merely the final capstone confirming what most of us should have known.

Besides, I am increasingly convinced that nuclear war wouldn't be an option pursued; the war in Ukraine confirms that within conventional war norms, the destruction of the Russian army does not require occupation. And the utter ruin of Russia is possible, as surely as the ruin of W1 Germany could be accomplished.

Not an optimal solution compared to occupation, but this time around leverage would create terms of peace far more enforceable that that imposed on Germany. Russia would have no choice, it's industry extinguished, it's people exhausted, it's sea borne trade blockaded.

Nope, only unfortunately for people like you. Thankfully for the rest of the world, nuclear weapons ensure that no attempt to impose the Morgenthau Plan on Russia could ever succeed.

If you think the Russians would allow a Western army to invade Russia proper without launching every weapon in their arsenal, including nukes— especially after what happened between 1941 and 1945– you are living in fantasy world.

Gee bud, the “utter ruin” of World War One Germany required a four year long blockade— something which would not affect Russia nearly as much, and be a blatant act of war beside— plus years of viciously bloody trench warfare which bled the Germans white, but nearly collapsed the British and French themselves in the process.

Your fantasy that occupying Russia is somehow “optimal” is laughable. Again, it’d make Iraq and Afghanistan look like child’s play.

Wrong. The Russians would be far more likely to launch everything they have rather than accept any such terms. New York and Los Angeles, DC and London, Paris and Berlin......all would burn in nuclear fire before anyone would even dream of accepting your plan.

 

[BitterPill]

I honestly didn't know he was still alive.

This was in May:

While on duty in Tolland, a Connecticut State Police trooper was called on to provide some roadside assistance to Nobel Peace Prize winner and former Polish President Lech Walesa.​

Conn. Trooper Helps Former Polish President Fix Flat Tire

While on duty in Tolland, a Connecticut State Police trooper was called on to provide some roadside assistance to Nobel Peace Prize winner and former Polish President Lech Walesa...

www.officer.com

Walesa is a very dangerous man as far as the MAGAsphere is concerned.

MAGA.

 

[Gatsby]

We should reduce Russia's population to 50 million.

Not by nuking them to oblivion, but by allowing every young Russian with any talent whatsoever to immigrate to America or Western Europe. Not all at once, of course. But over the span of a generation or two. And let Russia's own imploding demographics take care of the rest.

 

[maxparrish]

Nope, only unfortunately for people like you. Thankfully for the rest of the world, nuclear weapons ensure that no attempt to impose the Morgenthau Plan on Russia could ever succeed.

If you think the Russians would allow a Western army to invade Russia proper without launching every weapon in their arsenal, including nukes— especially after what happened between 1941 and 1945– you are living in fantasy world.

Gee bud, the “utter ruin” of World War One Germany required a four year long blockade— something which would not affect Russia nearly as much, and be a blatant act of war beside— plus years of viciously bloody trench warfare which bled the Germans white, but nearly collapsed the British and French themselves in the process.

Your fantasy that occupying Russia is somehow “optimal” is laughable. Again, it’d make Iraq and Afghanistan look like child’s play.

Wrong. The Russians would be far more likely to launch everything they have rather than accept any such terms. New York and Los Angeles, DC and London, Paris and Berlin......all would burn in nuclear fire before anyone would even dream of accepting your plan.

Thankfully for the rest of the world that it ensures that a Morgenthau Plan couldn't succeed? It is one thing to say that a conventional war is not worth the cost, its quite another to express fear that Morgenthau's plan might succeed after such a war.

That is the fundamental issue, whether or not you agree that Russia is an existential threat to Europe and if the world would be better off without it.

So what say you?

 

[Tigerace117]

Thankfully for the rest of the world that it ensures that a Morgenthau Plan couldn't succeed? It is one thing to say that a conventional war is not worth the cost, its quite another to express fear that Morgenthau's plan might succeed after such a war.

That is the fundamental issue, whether or not you agree that Russia is an existential threat to Europe and if the world would be better off without it.

So what say you?

Historians have established— rather throughly— that the Morgenthau Plan would be a complete disaster. Herbert Hoover— not a good president, but excellent at logistics— described it as “completely unworkable” and pointed out that it would cause well over twenty MILLION people to starve to death.

Furthermore, the plan was ACTIVELY counterproductive, stiffening German resistance. General Marshall himself complained that German resistance had stiffened, and American troops fighting in Aachen reported that the plan itself was worth “thirty divisions” to the Germans.

In short, any attempt to emulate it would not only be trying to copy something which would have killed millions of innocent people, it would be doubling down on failure.

The fundamental issue is that your plan would practically ensure nuclear war.

 

[Tigerace117]

We should reduce Russia's population to 50 million.

Not by nuking them to oblivion, but by allowing every young Russian with any talent whatsoever to immigrate to America or Western Europe. Not all at once, of course. But over the span of a generation or two. And let Russia's own imploding demographics take care of the rest.

Of course, the rather glaring issue is that a lot of people don’t WANT to emigrate.

Funnily enough, routine school shootings are not a great advertisement to try and get people to come to your country.

 

[Fledermaus]

Germany didn’t get partitioned after World War One; it kept the vast majority of its territory.

Except for what it lost by way of partitioning..

 

[Fledermaus]

Of course, the rather glaring issue is that a lot of people don’t WANT to emigrate.

Funnily enough, routine school shootings are not a great advertisement to try and get people to come to your country.

And yet people continue to immigrate to the US by the millions....

YOUR US BASHING IS WORTHLESS AND WEAK.

 

[Fledermaus]

Crying about “tankies” because I pointed out how insane Walesa’s scheme is is pathetic. Nobody forced him to spew such vile garbage.....he CHOSE to do so. You keep crying about how you “don’t support the scheme”.....and then turning around and trying to defend it.

Oh, and if what Russia is doing is “genocide”, then what Saudi Arabia has done in Yemen would also qualify.....and that atrocity has been done with active American and Western help from start to finish, with Biden even now heading to Riyadh to roll over for the Saudis yet again.

So your sputtering is meaningless on every level.

Dividing Russia is not "insane" and was exactly what happened in 1991.....

 

[Fledermaus]

Planning to wipe out about two thirds of the country’s population comes pretty ****ing close to that bud.

Where did he say anything about wiping out about two thirds of the country’s population?

 

[Tigerace117]

Russia kept the VAST majority of its territory in 1991. The territory it lost was the SSRs, almost entirely by choice— the Central Asian SSRs wanted to stay, but Russia was pulling out and that was that.

Which is VERY different than Walesa’s insane little scheme.

But I get some people never got over their moronic Cold War dreams of rolling into Moscow

 

[Fledermaus]

Russia kept the VAST majority of its territory in 1991. The territory it lost was the SSRs, almost entirely by choice— the Central Asian SSRs wanted to stay, but Russia was pulling out and that was that.

Which is VERY different than Walesa’s insane little scheme.

But I get some people never got over their moronic Cold War dreams of rolling into Moscow

Courageously not quoting the person you respond to. A Tigerace trait.

And the USSR was a collection of SSRs. The UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS.

The USSR was merely the Russian Empire under new ownership. The Asian SSRs were just Russian Empire Oblasts under new ownership. Same with the Baltics, the Caucasus, Ukraine, Moldova, etc.

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh, more meaningless whining about “courage”. Yawn. Courageous people wouldn’t have agreed to support the US’ sponsorship of tyrants across the globe.

The dissolution of the USSR still left Russia with the vast majority of its core territory. Likewise, the fact of the matter is that the Central Asian SSRs did not want the Union to fold, but had little choice once Russia decided.

 

[Gatsby]

Of course, the rather glaring issue is that a lot of people don’t WANT to emigrate.

Funnily enough, routine school shootings are not a great advertisement to try and get people to come to your country.

There are lots of Russians who would love to move to America, as is apparent from the number of green card applications, H1B applications, and student visas we receive. I'm sure it would be even more if we made the process easier and more open.

There will be some who don't want to move, and that's fine. But a lot of people will, because the United States is a better place to live than Russia by almost any metric.

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh, more meaningless whining about “courage”. Yawn.

Courageously not quoting the person you are responding to.

Courageous people wouldn’t have agreed to support the US’ sponsorship of tyrants across the globe.

Courageously ignoring the history of governments taken over by the peaceful Communists of the 1940s on.

The dissolution of the USSR still left Russia with the vast majority of its core territory.

And another courageous goalpost move that is amazingly ignorant.

Russian empire:



USSR... Oh, look... The same



Lookie, lookie... Big chunk of the Russian Empire/USSR is gone.



Oh, damn.... Look at all those new nations.

Likewise, the fact of the matter is that the Central Asian SSRs did not want the Union to fold, but had little choice once Russia decided.

Central Asian SSR declared sovereignty well before the 1991 dissolution of the USSR.

 

[Tigerace117]

More meaningless crying about “courage”. Nobody cares what you think is “courageous” bud.

Lookie lookie......the VAST majority of Russian core territory remains intact.

The borders of the Russian SFSR are, in fact, downright IDENTICAL to the borders of modern Russia.

Hmmm.....it’s almost like Russia proper didn’t get partitioned at all.....oh wait

They didn’t have a choice. Russia was leaving regardless, and their wishes were therefore ignored.

Just like some morons ignore reality and call for genocidal plans of conquest.

 

[Fledermaus]

More meaningless crying about “courage”. Nobody cares what you think is “courageous” bud.

Lookie lookie......the VAST majority of Russian core territory remains intact.

The borders of the Russian SFSR are, in fact, downright IDENTICAL to the borders of modern Russia.

Hmmm.....it’s almost like Russia proper didn’t get partitioned at all.....oh wait

They didn’t have a choice. Russia was leaving regardless, and their wishes were therefore ignored.

Just like some morons ignore reality and call for genocidal plans of conquest.

Lookie lookie.

Russia/USSR lost huge areas of what was the USSR/Russia.

Russian SFSR wasn't the only territory in the Russian Empire/USSR.

Practically none of the breakaway SSRs wanted to be part of new Russia.

 

[Tigerace117]

The CORE Russian territory remained entirely intact.

The areas which declared independence were overwhelmingly NOT core Russian territory.

That’s like claiming the US was “partitioned” when the Philippines became independent.

 

[Fledermaus]

The CORE Russian territory remained entirely intact.

The areas which declared independence were overwhelmingly NOT core Russian territory.

That’s like claiming the US was “partitioned” when the Philippines became independent.