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We went over it repeatedly on this forum. You never bothered to review any kind of evidence before, you're not going to do it now.
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Lawyer Kenneth Chesebro, 'Architect' of Trump's 2020 False Electors Scheme, Has Been Disbarred
- Thread starter CaughtInThe
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<laughing>
He was a lawyer. One of Trump's, and he always hires the best. At least, so he says. You saying a savvy lawyer like that was innocent of the charges against him, but he couldn't defend himself against charges you insinuate were not real?
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Criminalizing the only method known to appeal the vote?
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Uh huh. Lazy.
Again, if it wasn't a crime, he would have defended himself and prevailed. It's clearly a crime which is why he pled guilty to it.
Here's more. The indictment reveals evidence that Chesebro instructed others to send the fake certificates to Congress. At the time he had done that, all the cases for a recount were settled by the courts. Chesebro was aware of that but still got Trump electors to sign an uncertified document and send it to D.C. (bolded parts are my emphasis).
54. One of the documents prepared by Defendant Chesebro in connection with the meeting was a transmittal memorandum, which stated: “Pursuant to 3 U.S.C. § 11, enclosed please find duplicate originals of Wisconsin’s electoral votes for President and Vice President.” (enclosed as Ex. F). The memorandum was addressed to the President of the U.S. Senate, the U.S. Archivist...
In an email Chesebro sent out, he said:
If the Trump campaign were to weaponize the Electoral Count Act in this fashion it could put the Biden camp in a no-win situation.
Working with another attorney on this, he expressed approval of the plan to have Pence discard Biden's electors. None of those involved with this scheme made it contingent upon any of the state's courts declaring Trump the winner of their state.
63. On December 23, 2020, an attorney working with the Trump campaign emailed Defendant Chesebro a summary of the “January 6 scenario” for using the Trump-Pence elector slates during the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021. The summary stated, in part:
At the end, [Vice President Pence] announces that because of the disputes in the 7 states, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those states. That means the total number of “electors appointed” –that language of the 12th Amendment, is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe. A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
. . .
The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission—either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. . . .
Defendant Chesebro responded by sending a revised draft back to the attorney, with an email stating: “Really awesome.”
At the end, [Vice President Pence] announces that because of the disputes in the 7 states, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those states. That means the total number of “electors appointed” –that language of the 12th Amendment, is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe. A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
. . .
The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission—either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. . . .
Defendant Chesebro responded by sending a revised draft back to the attorney, with an email stating: “Really awesome.”
And yes, Chesebro was very much involved with delivering the fake electors to Congress.
77. After Defendant Chesebro received the Unappointed Elector Certificate from Individual C, Defendant Chesebro sent an email to Defendant Roman, letting him know that he had received the document. On January 5, 2021, Defendant Chesebro and Defendant Roman also exchanged messages about delivery of the Unappointed Elector Certificate. Defendant Chesebro suggested that Defendant Troupis could find someone to help deliver the document, and then asked Defendant Roman to find someone. Defendant Roman sent Defendant Chesebro a message stating that a Congressional staffer would meet Defendant Chesebro to receive the document, and sent Defendant Chesebro contact information for the staffer. Defendant Chesebro later sent a message to Defendant Roman to confirm that Defendant Chesebro had delivered the document.
79. On January 6, 2021, Defendant Chesebro and Defendant Troupis exchanged messages about attempting to deliver the Unappointed Elector Certificate to Vice President Pence during the Joint Session of Congress. Defendant Troupis instructed Defendant Chesebro to call Defendant Roman to “make sure he gets what he needs.” Defendant Chesebro messaged in return that he was with Defendant Roman’s “top guy”. Defendant Troupis messaged back: “Excellent. Tomorrow let’s talk about SCOTUS strategy going forward. Enjoy the history you have made possible today.”
79. On January 6, 2021, Defendant Chesebro and Defendant Troupis exchanged messages about attempting to deliver the Unappointed Elector Certificate to Vice President Pence during the Joint Session of Congress. Defendant Troupis instructed Defendant Chesebro to call Defendant Roman to “make sure he gets what he needs.” Defendant Chesebro messaged in return that he was with Defendant Roman’s “top guy”. Defendant Troupis messaged back: “Excellent. Tomorrow let’s talk about SCOTUS strategy going forward. Enjoy the history you have made possible today.”
It's unfortunate that you, and people like you, are so un-American, that you defend those who tried to subvert our beloved election process by trying to get the loser of a presidential election, illegally, and unconstitutionally, declared the winner.
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I would say to you that he didn't think it was unconstitutional or illegal or he wouldn't have sent it to the national archivist. You understand, law is made when it is made and this is just a legal maneuver, not any different from the times Democrats have counted and recounted and recounted in Democrat districts until they yield a win.
<laughing>
Recounts are legal. Republicans do them as well. Whereas sending fake electors, with an uncertified certificate of ascertainment, to Congress with the intent of flipping the election to the loser, is illegal, unconstitutional, and un-American.
Maybe now you see why Chesebro pleaded guilty. He knew he broke the law and got caught. He knew he would not prevail in a criminal case against him.
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Again, it needs to be stressed, he would not have done it in the first place if he thought it was illegal. He underestimated the Democrat party's ability to mangle justice for revenge.
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Holy shit.
You actually believe that to be true?
That is a really, really, really insane conclusion to be coming to.
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Uninterested. Right wingers have never accepted evidence from those hearings.
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He was flat out told it was illegal. By his own lawyers.
And you base that on what?
By "revenge," you mean upholding the law.
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Democrats wouldn't know how to uphold the law if it came with a hook and a ladder.
That you couldn't answer the question, "what do you base that on," reveals you made it up out of whole clothe. Thanks for making this so easy.
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Do you truly think that a Constitutional lawyer with a solid reputation would throw all that away on an action they believed to be illegal? I don't.
Democrats' claims for "justice" are always centered on the routes that bring them more political power and capital. Their version of upholding the law will always be aimed at jailing those they believe to be political enemies. Thats why "mostly peaceful" has become such an easy meme. Arson and looting isn't mostly peaceful.
I do. And I base that on how many of Trump's lawyers are guilty of committing crimes, still facing charges, or sanctioned by courts or disbarred:
- Michael Cohen
- Rudy Giuliani
- Sydney Powell
- Kenneth Chesebro
- John Eastman
- Jenna Ellis
- James Troupis
- Christina Bobb
- Link Wood
- Jeffrey Clark
- Alina Habba
- Michael Madaio
- Peter Ticktin
- Jamie Alan Sasson
- Cleta Mitchell
- Ray Smith
- Robert Cheeley
- Matthew DePerno
- Michael Farina
- Julia Haller
- Scott Hagerstrom
- Brandon Johnson
- Stephanie Juntilla
- Christopher Kise
- Howard Kleinhendler
- Armen Morian
- Emily Newman
- Clifford Robert
- Gregory Rohl
So you think it's legal to send uncertified fake electors to Congress to be counted for a candidate who lost their state's election, and while knowing there are no recounts taking place that could flip the election, or cases in court seeking a recount?
CaughtInThe
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I wonder how many lying liars won't admit that they voted for Trump just so they can skip out on responsibility.
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You can see the pattern but cannot admit it exists. Do you really think that many lawyers are going to risk their livelihood or is it more likely that Democrats weaponized the legal system?
Hmm I do see something wrong with your list, Alina Habba is the US Attorney for NJ. Maybe you should cite that list that I don't believe for a second you compiled.
Yes. They did. Everyone on that list was either charged with a crime, convicted, sanctioned or disbarred.
And I note, you didn't answer my question.
Do you think it's legal to send uncertified electors to Congress to be counted for a candidate who lost their state's election, while knowing there are no recounts taking place that could flip the election, or cases in court seeking a recount?
There's nothing wrong with my list.
A judge fines Trump and his lawyer for a 'frivolous' suit against his political foes
A Florida judge sanctioned former President Donald Trump and one of his attorneys, ordering them to pay nearly $1 million for filing what he said was a bogus lawsuit against Trump's 2016 rival Hillary Clinton and others.
[....]
The ruling required Trump and his attorney, Alina Habba, to pay nearly $938,000 to the defendants in the case.
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Yeah, that's not one of the things you listed. It's a fine under appeal. I would argue Clinton did engage in tortious behavior with her illegal use of funds for the Steele dossier, which itself was a pile of garbage. The various statements I saw from the judge absolutely undermine his need to remain unbiased.
PS I still see no cite for your little list. Don't plagiarize.
She was an attorney for Trump and she was sanctioned. In case you forgot already, I said that list was of Trump attorneys who "are guilty of committing crimes, still facing charges, or sanctioned by courts or disbarred."
Again I ask...
Do you think it's legal to send uncertified electors to Congress to be counted for a candidate who lost their state's election, and while knowing there are no recounts taking place that could flip the election, or cases in court seeking a recount?
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Eh, nah. I want a cite for that list you definitely didn't make and are definitely stealing from someone else before this discussion takes one more step forward.