Latest Military Operation Fizzles - All Hype, No Results

[danarhea]

There ya go, now you're towing the right line.

Go Iraqi military GO


Successful in what way? I'm not saying it was unsuccessful, because I don't know what the aim of the mission was. But TIME is reporting that the community they landed in might have as few as 1500 residents. For 1500 troops to be unsuccessful, that would be a little embarassing.

Not knowing what the goal of the mission was, it is impossible for those on the right to give a knee jerk reaction of "it was successful" or us on the left to give the equivalent "it was unsuccessful".

I just think that it's funny that the talking point "Iraqi led", gets repeated so often when clearly, even though the Iraqis were tagged along, it was an American operation.

Bingo. There you go. However, should they accidentally shoot a camel, the mediawhores will be all over it, telling the world that thousands of insurgents were neutralized. Not much different than the propaganda that was being fed to everyone about Vietnam. Remember all the fake body counts? I thought we learned our lesson from Lyndon Johnson. I guess not. We are now learning it from Bush.

 

[jfuh]

This is a post (#6) I made yesterday.
You still want to tell me it wasnt worth it?

It was nothing but a show off of the "newly trained Iraqi Military force".
Everything that's been coming out is stating how the Iraqi force is completely ill-prepared and incapable of defending themselves. So Rummy gives the green light as well as several dozen "reporters" to drop in as the strike takes place.
For all the hype I thought they were going to catch Mozzaouii.
All that is found is just that?
Face it, all but a small fraction of the Iraqi troops are capable of defending for themselves, much less others. This charade was nothing more then a demonstration, quite a pathetic one at that.

 

[cherokee]

It was nothing but a show off of the "newly trained Iraqi Military force".
Everything that's been coming out is stating how the Iraqi force is completely ill-prepared and incapable of defending themselves. So Rummy gives the green light as well as several dozen "reporters" to drop in as the strike takes place.
For all the hype I thought they were going to catch Mozzaouii.
All that is found is just that?
Face it, all but a small fraction of the Iraqi troops are capable of defending for themselves, much less others. This charade was nothing more then a demonstration, quite a pathetic one at that.

Truth is I dont care if it was just a show of force or whatever but when you take out material that can be used to kill our troops and Iraqi civl's then its worth the cost.

 

[millsy]

No more or less than you tow the left line.



Then that proves you are in no position to critique it doesn't it.

I'm not critiquing the soldiers performance. I was critiquing the talking points. I think Iraqi led is a joke.

I never denied towing a line. I was just saying that I believe the administration doesn't want right wingers saying "we got so many of this and so many of that", they want you saying "It was Iraqi led, it was Iraqi led". Hence the towing the "right" line, instead of "a" line.

Of course I'm towing a line, everybody should be. Those of you who aren't, get off your lazy buts and give us a hand.

 

[KCConservative]

Typical Bush cabinet meeting:

Every expert on anything talks for some time. Bush says nothing. Not a single question…. at times seems either bored or not to be fully comprehending everything that is said. At the end, President Bush simply says: “Let me know if you need anything”.

Source please.

Not that he is stupid, but rather it’s just that he has time and time again shown himself to lack any intellectual curiosity at all. Of course, intellectual curiosity is usually one of those qualities that a president (or a good manager for that matter) ought to possess.

Opinionated fluff.

Then again that’s probably why in a recent poll, when the respondents were asked what one word they felt best described the Bush Administration, the number one word was “incompetent”.

Wow. Given this recent poll, do you think he stands any chance of reelection?

 

[jfuh]

Truth is I dont care if it was just a show of force or whatever but when you take out material that can be used to kill our troops and Iraqi civl's then its worth the cost.

I'm on the same page of taking out weapons as you are. However I think it's a disgrace.
Just contrast this with how we made fun of the soviets when they had a huge armada steaming around and were completely incapable of doing anything. Looks kinda similar to the situation today wouldn't you agree?

 

[cherokee]

I'm on the same page of taking out weapons as you are. However I think it's a disgrace.
Just contrast this with how we made fun of the soviets when they had a huge armada steaming around and were completely incapable of doing anything. Looks kinda similar to the situation today wouldn't you agree?

Afghan or Iraq I really don’t see anything similar.

 

[jfuh]

Afghan or Iraq I really don’t see anything similar.

What are you talking about? This thread is about the recent stage performance the Rummy gave in Iraq, obviously everything I write is with regards to this performance.

 

[cherokee]

What are you talking about? This thread is about the recent stage performance the Rummy gave in Iraq, obviously everything I write is with regards to this performance.

Like I said before I don’t care if it was for the News or whatever.
I can see it as more of a joint mission, training opp or whatever. I don’t care.
They have made arrests and found a lot of weapons, our loss is low
that’s all that matters to me. The media and rummy can play it for what they can.



BAGHDAD , Iraq – Iraqi and Coalition troops continue Operation Swarmer northeast of Samarra, while the third anniversary of Operation Iraqi Freedom approaches.

Soldiers from the U.S. 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) and the 4th Iraqi Army have detained 60 suspected insurgents and found 11 caches in the operation covering 100-square miles of Salah ad Din province.An IED damaged one Coalition vehicle, but no troops were injured in the attack. In fact, as of 6 p.m. Iraqi time March 18, neither Iraqi nor Coalition forces experienced casualties as a result of the operation.Operation Swarmer has yielded significant amounts of weapons and IED-making materials, as well as terrorist training materials. Caches include rockets and mortar rounds of varying sizes, rocket-propelled grenades, SA-7 surface-to-air missile components, hand grenades, machine guns, assault rifles and nearly 2,000 rounds of armor-piercing rifle ammunition.

Troops also discovered more than 500-feet of detonating cord, blasting caps, artillery rounds packed with plastic explosive, and remote initiation devices such as cordless phone base stations and washing machine timers – materials all used to make IEDs.

Other terrorist supplies included training publications, Iraqi Army uniforms, and video tapes. The tapes show U.S. troop locations in Iraq, the rigging and detonation of a car bomb, a suicide bomber and equipment taken from Iraqi Police.........................

 

[oldreliable67]

Part of the mis-perceptions of this operation are highlighted by the observations of this Army Captain, blogging from Iraq:

My next point has to do with perception. I mentioned in my last entry how I saw on TV a report about the "Operation Swarmer" air assault led by the 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division. An air assault is an attack using helicopters as the means of transport. Well, what film footage was aired? Footage of a tank and some trucks burning on the side of the road!! Both shots were filmed during Operation Iraqi Freedom I.

Due to a lack of reporters embedded with units and soldiers for the long haul, the news network could only air 3-year-old stock footage. Moreover, the editor who cleared this story overlooked the fact that no air assault unit in the military has tanks BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO HEAVY TO BE CARRIED BY A HELICOPTER. Was this bias? No. However, it may have created a negative perception.

As a force, it took us a while to grow out of the offensive mindset. Our leaders have figured out that we will not kill our way out of this war. Our main focus is training the Iraqi army and police forces and making life better for the people of Iraq. That is the way we are going to be successful here, but it does not make for spectacular film footage.

When stock footage of units attacking and being on the offensive is shown on TV, it creates the perception that we are continually fighting that battle. If reporters were to embed with our units now, they would have footage of young soldiers and NCOs (noncommissioned officers) coming up with creative, nonviolent solutions to help the Iraqi people.

But that is not good television. After all, what would most people rather watch in their homes at night: a group of strangers stabbing each other in the back to win $1 million, or a group of soldiers working together to solve problems so they can all come home alive?

The rest of his comments are here.

 

[cherokee]

It floors me what the parties and media tries to spin.
Maybe I'm just too dumb to understand.
Maybe I see the facts for what they are without the entire political BS.

1500 troops, with zero arrests and zero weapons found = Large-scale joint training operation. Its not like the US doesn’t carry out such operations.

1500 troops, several people arrested, lots of weapons found, with little or no loss of life of the American or Iraqi soldiers = 100% success. Bonus, Iraqi troops gain experience in conducting such operations.

 

[jfuh]

Like I said before I don’t care if it was for the News or whatever.
I can see it as more of a joint mission, training opp or whatever. I don’t care.
They have made arrests and found a lot of weapons, our loss is low
that’s all that matters to me. The media and rummy can play it for what they can.

I understand your point you're making. I also see that you are in agreement that this was just a performance by rummy. We're on the same page here.
However here's the point I'm making. If by the same rational, we're going to be collecting arms all over. Shouldn't we start by limiting the proliferation of small arms and so on? I guess I'm pointing to the plot of the movie "The Lord of War". Shouldn't the start be there? Why pull in a few hundred dollars worth of weaponry that is putting our soldiers in harms way when it's so much easier to prevent weapons sales to begin with. Just have the 5 permanent security council members stop selling weapons. They'll have to run out of munition sooner or later.

 

[jfuh]

Part of the mis-perceptions of this operation are highlighted by the observations of this Army Captain, blogging from Iraq:



The rest of his comments are here.

An army captain that has so much time while deployed in Iraq to write a nearly 2000 word entry most of which focused on footage while at the same time claiming not to watch much news? Just dosn't smell right.
You'll have to forgive me for not trusting the news blog of a Fox News correspondant.
I'm not debating his claims, just that he's writing about medial bias while presenting medial bias.

 

[jfuh]

It floors me what the parties and media tries to spin.
Maybe I'm just too dumb to understand.
Maybe I see the facts for what they are without the entire political BS.

1500 troops, with zero arrests and zero weapons found = Large-scale joint training operation. Its not like the US doesn’t carry out such operations.

1500 troops, several people arrested, lots of weapons found, with little or no loss of life of the American or Iraqi soldiers = 100% success. Bonus, Iraqi troops gain experience in conducting such operations.

The point is the hype that the pentagon was giving about this opperation. Rummy made it sound as if oh, this is the big one, we're going to give the insurgency a deadly blow. But as always it was over hyped and resulted in very little accomplishment. True Rummy style.

 

[scottyz]

wag the dog...

 

[Gibberish]

It floors me what the parties and media tries to spin.
Maybe I'm just too dumb to understand.
Maybe I see the facts for what they are without the entire political BS.

1500 troops, with zero arrests and zero weapons found = Large-scale joint training operation. Its not like the US doesn’t carry out such operations.

1500 troops, several people arrested, lots of weapons found, with little or no loss of life of the American or Iraqi soldiers = 100% success. Bonus, Iraqi troops gain experience in conducting such operations.

I agree. I think the point of this mission was more of a teaching mechanism and morale booster for the Iraqi soldiers. It was an easy mission and with little or no risk but by putting it in the media spot light and having the commanders focus on this mission the Iraqi soldiers can feel accomplishment and a sense of pride for what they are doing.

Here in America the media spun it out of control as if this mission was supposed to produce some special results. Unless I am missing something and someone in charge stated that this missions had a very specific goal which it did not meet?

 

[BWG]

What I object to was the DECEPTION. This operation was put on for 'GOOD NEWS'. Thats it. Nothing else.

If the administration wants good news, I have a suggestion.

Take all that money that they spent on Operation Swarmer, take them all, helicopters, vehicles, troops, to the the same deserted area and stage a huge TRAINING EXERCISE for the Iraq troops. Dummy targets, fake buildings, air assaults, ground assaults, bombs exploding, weapons firing and on and on. Our troops training theirs. There you have accomplished three objectives, you have shown some 'good' news and you have trained some Iraqi troops and you have shown some progress.

Same money, same objective, no lie!! :idea:




Yeah, Yeah, I know. Some would complain it's all a big publicity stunt. Well, what are they saying now? :?:

 

[easyt65]

To hear it from the Bush administration, Operation Swarmer was a huge success. However, the facts speak for themselves:

1) Not a single shot fired.

2) Not a single leader nabbed.

3) Of the 48 so called terrorists nabbed, 17 have already been released, and more are being released every hour.

I have some question. Is this to be construed as a victory against the insurgents? How many of our tax dollars went into this fizzled attack? What was the conversation between Bush and Rumsfeld like when they came up with this cockamamie scheme to spin the war?


Bush: My poll numbers are way down. What do I do?

Rummy: Lets launch a new assault, and call it the biggest one since the war began. We will call our embedded mediawhores and get them to play along too. Lets call it....... um..... ahhhhhhhhh - operation SWARMER.

Bush: OK, so we send 50 choppers out with 1500 troops, and make it look good to the American people. Now what about any insurgents we find?

Rummy: We have a war game we have been practicing just for this occasion. Its called Patty Cake.

Bush: Brilliant!!!! Now gimme another Guiness **burp**.

Article is here.

I am an officer who works at the HQ that is in charge of that entire area. That being said, I have a few questions for you Dan:

Is that lame-@$$ed article REALLY the source of your post? (Please tell me you have something more substantial!)

Can you tell me how many explosives were found? How much material for making IEDs and bombs? Can you tell me how much information we got out of the insurgents we captured or how valuable any of that information has been yet?

Everybody reading this who ACTUALLY knows what is going on over there militarily and has any REAL knowledge of why this operation was run, please raise your hand. (Put your hand down, Dan - I said KNOW not A$$umed!)

Knowing what I DO know, the information I am privy to, makes your thread THAT much more funny! Thanks for the laugh, Expert! :lol:

 

[Gibberish]

I am an officer who works at the HQ that is in charge of that entire area. That being said, I have a few questions for you Dan

That is interesting, I always pictured you as more of a late teens or early twenties individual.

That scares me that an officer in charge of anything makes comments that you do and uses insults such as "lame-@$$ed" and "a$$umed".

 

[danarhea]

I am an officer who works at the HQ that is in charge of that entire area. That being said, I have a few questions for you Dan:

Is that lame-@$$ed article REALLY the source of your post? (Please tell me you have something more substantial!)

Can you tell me how many explosives were found? How much material for making IEDs and bombs? Can you tell me how much information we got out of the insurgents we captured or how valuable any of that information has been yet?

Everybody reading this who ACTUALLY knows what is going on over there militarily and has any REAL knowledge of why this operation was run, please raise your hand. (Put your hand down, Dan - I said KNOW not A$$umed!)

Knowing what I DO know, the information I am privy to, makes your thread THAT much more funny! Thanks for the laugh, Expert! :lol:

Since you say you were directly involved in that operation, then do you admit or deny that no shots were fired? Do you admit or deny that no ringleaders were captured? Do you admit or deny that most of the prisoners taken have been let go because there was no proof that they were involved in the insurgency?

As for the weapons and bombs taken, that is just another red herring. Weapons and bombs have been taken just about every day since the war ended, and more keep coming in. Or do you want to deny that a bunch of Iraqis got blown up again today?

However, you are over there doing a job, and I respect that, in fact, I would like to thank you. I just dont support your Commander in Chief. He is in way over his head, mentally speaking, and was not the brightest crayon in the box to begin with. Too bad he isnt like his father, who pulled back from Baghdad because he knew that this is the way the situation would turn out. Bush's father was not flying the skies of Texas to protect us from the VC. He was REALLY on active duty during WWII. He was also the head of the CIA before he became president. Also, after after he left the service, he didnt have to brag about his days in the military in order to get elected to office and do a good job. Say what you want about him, but he knew what he was doing. His son hasnt a clue.

As for the time magazine article you call lamo, their reporters were there as it happened. That is why they were able to print the following:

Not a shot was fired, or a leader nabbed, in a major offensive that failed to live up to its advance billing

Stay safe.

 

[jfuh]

I am an officer who works at the HQ that is in charge of that entire area. That being said, I have a few questions for you Dan:

Is that lame-@$$ed article REALLY the source of your post? (Please tell me you have something more substantial!)

Can you tell me how many explosives were found? How much material for making IEDs and bombs? Can you tell me how much information we got out of the insurgents we captured or how valuable any of that information has been yet?

Everybody reading this who ACTUALLY knows what is going on over there militarily and has any REAL knowledge of why this operation was run, please raise your hand. (Put your hand down, Dan - I said KNOW not A$$umed!)

Knowing what I DO know, the information I am privy to, makes your thread THAT much more funny! Thanks for the laugh, Expert! :lol:

For someone that is actually a military officer involved with strategy and planning. You certainly do not sound one. Sound more the disgruntled trigger happy sergent.

 

[KCConservative]

For someone that is actually a military officer involved with strategy and planning. You certainly do not sound one. Sound more the disgruntled trigger happy sergent.

I thought you said you didn't flame. :lol:

 

[easyt65]

That is interesting, I always pictured you as more of a late teens or early twenties individual.

That scares me that an officer in charge of anything makes comments that you do and uses insults such as "lame-@$$ed" and "a$$umed".

It scares ME that civilians like yourself believe everything you are fed by lame-@$$ed media, actually believing THEY know everything that is going on, especially in military operations!

 

[easyt65]

For someone that is actually a military officer involved with strategy and planning. You certainly do not sound one. Sound more the disgruntled trigger happy sergent.

Why, because I pointed out a civilian's arrogance and ignorance of military operations and who believes the media is 'in the know' about classified planning and operations or would in any way actually report truth?

You funny. :lol:

 

[Gibberish]

It scares ME that civilians like yourself believe everything you are fed by lame-@$$ed media, actually believing THEY know everything that is going on, especially in military operations!

Your assumptions are getting the best of you.

If you read posts I make I always say the media is simply out to turn a profit. What ever news story will get the most ratings is what will be shown.

Granted I do make my own assumptions on certain military actions based on my knowledge. Example would be that I believe Operation Swarmer was simply a morale boosting exercise for the Iraqi military.