Last two quarters PROFIT: Exxon, UP 228%. Chevron, UP 149%. Shell, UP 117%

[US&THEM]

Where did I say "Biden inflation"?

Moreover, it is rather clear that the administration has materially contributed to the inflation problem. Is that even really debatable?

Yea the President of the US contributed to global inflation.

 

[bave]

Yea the President of the US contributed to global inflation.

Yup, agreed.

Or are you suggesting that statement is debatable?

 

[US&THEM]

Yup, agreed.

Or are you suggesting that statement is debatable?

Wow so the President can dictate the entire global economy, good to know.

 

[bave]

Wow so the President can dictate the entire global economy, good to know.

You seem to have a rather big problem discriminating to what was in fact said and what you imagined.

I never said a POTUS "dictates the entire global economy". What I said was that I agreed with "the POTUS contributed to global inflation".

More importantly, the statement which I agreed with is rather universally agreed upon by economists.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

This is the most disconnected post I have seen here in a very long time. Governments are almost entirely responsible for managing inflationary controls and results.

So, you are saying the federal government controls the American economy?

That's ridiculous. Oil companies just reported obscene profits. Do you expect the federal government to take any action against the oil companies? The CEO of Shell has more to say about inflation than does the President.

Republicans are bred to think government controls the economy. It doesn't. If it were true, why is it that Republican administrations have a history of recessions?

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[bave]

So, you are saying the federal government controls the American economy?

That's ridiculous. Oil companies just reported obscene profits. Do you expect the federal government to take any action against the oil companies? The CEO of Shell has more to say about inflation than does the President.

Republicans are bred to think government controls the economy. It doesn't. If it were true, why is it that Republican administrations have a history of recessions?

The literacy and reading comprehension in this country is a travesty. Nowhere did I say that. However the government has an enormous amount of influence on inflationary effects.

The oil companies just reported "obscene profits"? By what measure? By yours, or objectively? Apple, as an example, has had ridiculous earnings for the past decade+. Look at the numbers, compare the cumulative, or even annual, profits of Apple to Chevron or Exxon. Then cry to me about excessive profits. If that doesn't work we can talk about Google or Microsoft. None of those are oil companies and they are all incredibly liberal, so you turn a blind eye to them, eh?

What do you *expect* the oil companies to do about it? The western governments decided to take millions of barrels of oil and distillates out of the global economy for sanctions. There is nothing in the world the US energy companies can do about that. Hell, they don't even set their prices for the product, the global commodities market does that for them, again what would you have them do?

 

[bave]

Another fun fact...

US corporate tax burdens are still well above average for OECD average, particularly when compared to our primary competitors.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Another fun fact...

US corporate tax burdens are still well above average for OECD average, particularly when compared to our primary competitors.

Wait, are we comparing ourselves against places like the UK and Japan for this reason? Or we going to do it for other reasons as well?

 

[bave]

Wait, are we comparing ourselves against places like the UK and Japan for this reason? Or we going to do it for other reasons as well?

Your writing makes your thoughts, as they were, unclear. What reason are you referring to?

You are the one who brought up corporate tax rates, not me, you just did it ignorantly without any long term plan for a debate on the topic.

What's new?

 

[CaughtInThe]

Your writing makes your thoughts, as they were, unclear. What reason are you referring to?

You are the one who brought up corporate tax rates, not me, you just did it ignorantly without any long term plan for a debate on the topic.

What's new?

You started comparing us to other countries for a specific reason. What I'm saying is are we now going to be comparing ourselves to other countries for other reasons? Countries like the UK and Japan?

 

[bave]

You started comparing us to other countries for a specific reason. What I'm saying is are we now going to be comparing ourselves to other countries for other reasons? Countries like the UK and Japan?

Pay attention. Focus.

You brought up the historical comparison of corporate tax revenue to US coffers. I pointed out that while the share of revenue has fallen, we are still just barely in the realm of globally competitive in that arena. Most adults compare things. Locations, people, businesses, etc. When you are talking about national economic policy (ie: corporate taxes) you need to compare the numbers to our peers, otherwise you end up causing a lot of harm through ignorantly changing policies without consideration to the results.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Pay attention. Focus.

You brought up the historical comparison of corporate tax revenue to US coffers. I pointed out that while the share of revenue has fallen, we are still just barely in the realm of globally competitive in that arena. Most adults compare things. Locations, people, businesses, etc. When you are talking about national economic policy (ie: corporate taxes) you need to compare the numbers to our peers, otherwise you end up causing a lot of harm through ignorantly changing policies without consideration to the results.

And my point is, which you can't seem to understand, is tons of people on this board, specifically republicans, don't want the US compared to other countries for many reasons. For example, gun violence.

 

[bave]

And my point is, which you can't seem to understand, is tons of people on this board, specifically republicans, don't want the US compared to other countries for many reasons. For example, gun violence.

That's nice. I am not them.

When you start talking about social issues you are going to have far less clear data and conclusions to work from as well.

 

[multivita-man]

So... what are we proposing here?

Honestly it's not the profits that bother me (well, not entirely); it's the fact that big oil whines like a baby about how Biden's policies are responsible for higher prices at the pump. Like yesterday I was listening to a business radio program and this investor/big oil advocate came on and casually said "This administration's rhetoric discourages us from drilling"

Sorry, but that's a crock of shit. Since about 6 months into his administration, Biden has only expanded leases, including record leases in the Gulf of Mexico. Prices are higher mainly because demand plummeted in 2020, then roared back in late 2020 and early 2021, and it took time for markets to adjust and it took even longer for policymakers to react -- that's probably an inevitable mess, really. But big oil clearly is using its leverage over the economy to do two things:

1) fight against the growing demand for (and switch to) a carbon-free economy

2) fight against policymakers who are pushing markets to do #1

This is evident not only in the behavior of FF corporations but also FF producing states like OPEC. In fact when FF producing states like Saudi Arabia aren't attacking progressive politicians like Joe Biden, they're trying to put US natural gas producers out of business by overproducing, as they did in 2014-15.

 

[CaughtInThe]

That's nice. I am not them.

When you start talking about social issues you are going to have far less clear data and conclusions to work from as well.

Gun violence is pretty clear when comparing us to other countries. Like Japan. Healthcare cost is pretty clear When comparing us to other countries.

So you do want to start comparing us to other countries, correct?

 

[bave]

Gun violence is pretty clear when comparing us to other countries. Like Japan. Healthcare cost is pretty clear When comparing us to other countries.

So you do want to start comparing us to other countries, correct?

What's the title of this thread?

I realize you have a problem focusing, but keep working on it.

 

[bave]

Honestly it's not the profits that bother me (well, not entirely); it's the fact that big oil whines like a baby about how Biden's policies are responsible for higher prices at the pump. Like yesterday I was listening to a business radio program and this investor/big oil advocate came on and casually said "This administration's rhetoric discourages us from drilling"

Sorry, but that's a crock of shit. Since about 6 months into his administration, Biden has only expanded leases, including record leases in the Gulf of Mexico. Prices are higher mainly because demand plummeted in 2020, then roared back in late 2020 and early 2021, and it took time for markets to adjust and it took even longer for policymakers to react -- that's probably an inevitable mess, really. But big oil clearly is using its leverage over the economy to do two things:

Sorry, but that's just not true. Rhetoric matters a great deal. No one wants to commit billions of capital only to run into a permitting nightmare or legal disaster. That is heavily influenced by rhetoric and ideology. The leasing is also an issue, he has been trying to block sales constantly and limiting areas that were previously open. Those are all real issues.

In fact when FF producing states like Saudi Arabia aren't attacking progressive politicians like Joe Biden, they're trying to put US natural gas producers out of business by overproducing, as they did in 2014-15.

You clearly don't understand the industry. OPEC isn't particularly focused on nat-gas.

 

[CaughtInThe]

What's the title of this thread?

I realize you have a problem focusing, but keep working on it.

oh, so now it's time for you to backtrack.

figures

 

[multivita-man]

Sorry, but that's just not true. Rhetoric matters a great deal. No one wants to commit billions of capital only to run into a permitting nightmare or legal disaster. That is heavily influenced by rhetoric and ideology. The leasing is also an issue, he has been trying to block sales constantly and limiting areas that were previously open. Those are all real issues.

Naaah, blocking of leases is a canard. He has expanded leases aplenty. Moreover, there's underutilization of the leases they now have -- I speak as someone who has land on and in the vicinity of proven reserves (inheritances are cool). Energy companies are going to go for proven reserves first for the obvious reasons, and that's exactly what they're doing now because they go for the energy that's easy to get out of the ground and into the market. That explains why they're not drilling in these other areas - has little to do with Biden's policies. It's also as clear as day that the energy companies are using their leverage to make up for a good 5+ years of underperforming the rest of the equities market. There's an argument to be made for that I reckon, but they should just come out and say that's what they're doing instead of "Whaaah! Whaaah! Biden's saying bad things about us!"

You clearly don't understand the industry. OPEC isn't particularly focused on nat-gas.

Not now, but it absolutely was focused on our cheap natural gas and our overall energy portfolio in the mid 2010s. There was literally no other explanation for KSA's continued over-production of oil. It's a different world now. My point isn't that they're now, in 2022, focused on nat-gas; they're focused on the price of oil because their regimes depend on it. No oil revenue = internal destabilization and Al Qaida.

King Abdullah's response after 9/11/01 was to reverse what had been seen as corruption favoring the House of Saud at the expense of Saudi Arabia's rapidly deteriorating/disappearing middle class between the 1980s and 2001. Things like using oil money to subsidize scholarships abroad, stipends, etc for young men.

 

[bave]

Naaah, blocking of leases is a canard. He has expanded leases aplenty. Moreover, there's underutilization of the leases they now have -- I speak as someone who has land on and in the vicinity of proven reserves (inheritances are cool). Energy companies are going to go for proven reserves first for the obvious reasons, and that's exactly what they're doing now because they go for the energy that's easy to get out of the ground and into the market. That explains why they're not drilling in these other areas - has little to do with Biden's policies. It's also as clear as day that the energy companies are using their leverage to make up for a good 5+ years of underperforming the rest of the equities market. There's an argument to be made for that I reckon, but they should just come out and say that's what they're doing instead of "Whaaah! Whaaah! Biden's saying bad things about us!"

See below, hard right wind pro-fossil fuels PBS disagrees with you. Biden has done everything he can to halt leasing, including using lawsuits and new economic impact measures. Many of these have lost in court, some have not. The sustained leases we have seen, particularly in the first year, were based on momentum from the prior administration.

Ruling clears Joe Biden's 2021 pause on new oil, gas leases

A judge's order that forced the Biden administration to resume sales of oil and gas leases on federal land and waters has been lifted by a federal appeals court.

www.pbs.org

Again, what would you have the oil companies do? Their CAPEX is up markedly.

Not now, but it absolutely was focused on our cheap natural gas and our overall energy portfolio in the mid 2010s. There was literally no other explanation for KSA's continued over-production of oil. It's a different world now. My point isn't that they're now, in 2022, focused on nat-gas; they're focused on the price of oil because their regimes depend on it. No oil revenue = internal destabilization and Al Qaida.

King Abdullah's response after 9/11/01 was to reverse what had been seen as corruption favoring the House of Saud at the expense of Saudi Arabia's rapidly deteriorating/disappearing middle class between the 1980s and 2001. Things like using oil money to subsidize scholarships abroad, stipends, etc for young men.

As I said, you clearly don't understand the market. SA has never been an exporting of natural gas, nor do they have any immediate plans to become one. Qatar and Iran are the nat-gas giants, not SA.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

However the government has an enormous amount of influence on inflationary effects.

The oil companies just reported "obscene profits"? By what measure? By yours, or objectively? Apple, as an example, has had ridiculous earnings for the past decade+. Look at the numbers, compare the cumulative, or even annual, profits of Apple to Chevron or Exxon. Then cry to me about excessive profits. If that doesn't work we can talk about Google or Microsoft. None of those are oil companies and they are all incredibly liberal, so you turn a blind eye to them, eh?

What do you *expect* the oil companies to do about it? The western governments decided to take millions of barrels of oil and distillates out of the global economy for sanctions. There is nothing in the world the US energy companies can do about that. Hell, they don't even set their prices for the product, the global commodities market does that for them, again what would you have them do?

You did not substantiate how the government has "influence on inflationary effects." That's because you couldn't, and it is quite typical of Republicans to say something they are unable to prove.

The rest of your reply substantiated what I am saying. That business leaders have more influence on inflationary pressures than the President. That is the way it should be in a free enterprise system. You want government control of the economy, go to Russia.

You should quit while you are behind.

 

[poweRob]

You Republicans need to keep your wallets open and delay paying your bills so that these companies can continue to rake in RECORD profits...

Clearly all Biden's fault somehow... Amirite?

 

[poweRob]

So... what are we proposing here?

Windfall profit tax .

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/30/economy/europe-energy-crisis-windfall-tax/index.html

 

[mrjurrs]

You Republicans need to keep your wallets open and delay paying your bills so that these companies can continue to rake in RECORD profits...

Looks like war profiteering to me.