Ladies and Gentlemen -- IL's NEXT Governor

[ChezC3]

As far as Quinn is concerned, I'd call it more of a palace coup than a witch hunt...but yeah.

I used "coup" in a previous post. I abhor repetitive word use...

Sad but true.

Indeed...

No feces!

No Doubt.

 

[Linc]

Big Jim hustler is THE number one reason why the pension crisis is where it is. He had 14 of the 26 straight years of Repub govs not funding the pension, remember? And now his pension is more than he ever made as gov thanks to a bill he signed with compound COLA.

You need allot stronger opponent than Edgar, like Big Jim strong. Which I personally would love... Rahm's caving in to the CPS union gave him his second term. Especially since there are no real contenders to run against him. So the GOP opposition on both fronts is non existent.

The only "hurdle" :lamo if you can call it that, for Daley is Quinn. Like I said, meet our next Governor.

There is no GOP to lead. It's a sad, pathetic, state of affairs.

 

[Linc]

Heh, the North Branch isn't that bad...

Don't get me wrong I'm not endorsing him, just reading the tea leaves. Quinn got his reward for helping in the coup against Blago now its time for the wolves to come out... I most certainly hope nothing is happening with "My Money" Mike's little girl, hopefully some scandal will break on her and papa before she can do any real damage.

The GOP in IL is a joke, which is funny since all but 2 or 3 counties vote red.

the only one in recent memory who had a fighting chance if he chose got out while the getting was good, and that was Jerry Weller... The Machine seen him as a threat, Nicaragua was a shot across the bow, and bow out of politics he did...

Smart man...

Weller is scum, the Sanford of Illinois, an embarrassment to the party of family values as well as the town of Morris, where he is now loathed. He went past the 12 years in the House when he promised to get out. Besides, Kinzinger would kick his ass in a primary.

 

[Tucker Case]

What I find amazing is that I've lived here for my entire life I really don't know anyone who actually likes our politicians. Everyone of every race and every ethnicity thinks they all suck.

SO how th e**** do they keep winning?!?!?!?

 

[ChezC3]

Big Jim hustler is THE number one reason why the pension crisis is where it is. He had 14 of the 26 straight years of Repub govs not funding the pension, remember? And now his pension is more than he ever made as gov thanks to a bill he signed with compound COLA.

Oh don't gimme this partisan poppycock, the underfunding has gone on damn near since its inception.. 70 years at least...

 

[ChezC3]

What I find amazing is that I've lived here for my entire life I really don't know anyone who actually likes our politicians. Everyone of every race and every ethnicity thinks they all suck.

SO how th e**** do they keep winning?!?!?!?

Magic

 

[ChezC3]

Weller is scum, the Sanford of Illinois, an embarrassment to the party of family values as well as the town of Morris, where he is now loathed. He went past the 12 years in the House when he promised to get out. Besides, Kinzinger would kick his ass in a primary.

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man...

 

[penn1954]

What I find amazing is that I've lived here for my entire life I really don't know anyone who actually likes our politicians. Everyone of every race and every ethnicity thinks they all suck.

SO how th e**** do they keep winning?!?!?!?

The leaders count the votes??:mrgreen:

 

[Linc]

Oh don't gimme this partisan poppycock, the underfunding has gone on damn near since its inception.. 70 years at least...

Can you prove I'm wrong? An honest Repub governor, Dick Ogilvie, refused to defund TRS in 1972. Walker did in 1973, Thompson beat him in 1977 and the pension has been a disaster since. Why do you support Thompson having larger governor pensions than governor salaries?

 

[Linc]

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man...

What do you call a Congressman having an affair with the daughter of a Guatemalen dictator? When you call it my opinion, I call you a phony Republican.

 

[ChezC3]

Can you prove I'm wrong? An honest Repub governor, Dick Ogilvie, refused to defund TRS in 1972. Walker did in 1973, Thompson beat him in 1977 and the pension has been a disaster since. Why do you support Thompson having larger governor pensions than governor salaries?

because it also allows employee pensions to be larger than employee salaries...

(oops, full disclosure, I'm vested in SURS...)

 

[ChezC3]

What do you call a Congressman having an affair with the daughter of a Guatemalen dictator? When you call it my opinion, I call you a phony Republican.

Well, than you'd be wrong. I'm not a phony Republican cuz I'm not a Republican.

Lean: Independent

In case you missed it...

 

[SILVER SURFER]

I used "coup" in a previous post. I abhor repetitive word use...

Admirable...but in this case, it bears repetition for emphasis

No Doubt.

No doubt you'd be banned...no **** you'd be right about Mike

 

[Linc]

because it also allows employee pensions to be larger than employee salaries...

(oops, full disclosure, I'm vested in SURS...)

Which makes you and my fellow TRS members part of the problem not the solution. The greed is so great our fellow pensioners can't even give up COLA. Keep killing the Golden Goose and some day there will be ZERO pension, rather than, let's say 50%.

 

[Linc]

Well, than you'd be wrong. I'm not a phony Republican cuz I'm not a Republican.

Lean: Independent

In case you missed it...

Terms like Independent and Libertarian are used for those not wanting to own up to their lifetime of votes. I went from a Lincoln Repub to a Lincoln Dem in 1984 but still voted for Percy, though he lost, and against Reagan who won.

 

[ChezC3]

Which makes you and my fellow TRS members part of the problem not the solution. The greed is so great our fellow pensioners can't even give up COLA. Keep killing the Golden Goose and some day there will be ZERO pension, rather than, let's say 50%.

Excuse me? How is taking a position with the understanding and agreement on compensation offered make me part of the problem? I fulfilled my end of the agreement and am rightly entitled to what was layed out in the terms of my employment.

Tell you what, do you work? OK, well lets say you put in your 80 hours and you were promised $20/hr but come payday they say, "You know what? Sorry, I know you agreed to work for $20 an hour but Joey over in accounting? Yeah, he decided to fudge the ledgers a little bit so we're gonna give you $5 dollars an hour instead. Oh and we'll take $2 out of that $5 to cover the previously free healthcare you were promised too, as part of your employment contract, but, hey, you know, you'll just have to make due..." Now instead of 80 hours think if it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years of your life. Get the picture?



Perhaps the ZERO should be the tax breaks IL gives to corporations or perhaps it should come from the cash cow that goes to the world without end road construction, HHS, and various other pet projects of Mike "My Money" Madigan.

 

[ChezC3]

Terms like Independent and Libertarian are used for those not wanting to own up to their lifetime of votes. I went from a Lincoln Repub to a Lincoln Dem in 1984 but still voted for Percy, though he lost, and against Reagan who won.

Up to 2004 -- Straight GOP
After 2004 Dem, Green, Libertarian, GOP

I voted against Obama in 04 and for him in 08. He is the only national Dem I've voted for or will ever vote for as it stands now. So while my record -- which I stand by and will fess up to whoever wants to hear it -- shows I am not a Republican, and won't vote for one unless I like the candidate. If I have no preference in the race I vote 3rd party by default if I haven't heard about them, you know like someone running for County Lawn-Watering Clerk...

 

[SILVER SURFER]

Which makes you and my fellow TRS members part of the problem not the solution. The greed is so great our fellow pensioners can't even give up COLA. Keep killing the Golden Goose and some day there will be ZERO pension, rather than, let's say 50%.

BULL****!!

The problem isn't greedy pensioners. It's greedy politicians using their position to buy votes with tax-supported pork and garner "campaign contributions" with corporate tax breaks. They've done so for years instead of funding pensions like they're legally required to do. Now that their corruption has caught up with them, they're trying to blame all those evil, greedy state pensioners. Have you seen the not-so-Mighty Quinn's insulting “Thanks In Advance” ads with all those cute kids implying pensioners are robbing them of their education, their healthcare, their future, and probably their Lucky Charms? Or the idiotic cartoon “Squeezy the Pension Python” strangling the state? Who’s the governor’s copywriter…Hanna-Barbera?

There are differences among the state’s several retirement systems and there have been recent changes for new hires. But they generally promised a pension based on average salary and years’ service, a 3% annual COLA compounded on the pension, and free health insurance. (Yes, I know it wasn’t free for TRS.) Maybe the state made a bad bargain but they made it nonetheless. The pensioners held up their end by contributing a healthy percentage of their salary while providing service for years. The state welched on the health insurance. Despite Numbnuts Nardulli’s ruling, that is a reduction of benefits in violation of the state constitution. Now the politicians are trying to welch on the COLA as well so yeah, the pension itself may be next. They’re so chicken**** they passed the health insurance premium in such a manner that they could blame CMS for it. They’d pass pension “reform” they know won’t stand the constitutional challenge so they can blame the court. But given their inertia to date, even that may not happen. In other words, business as usual until the systems go broke. Then it'll get ugly real quick.

The governor and the general assembly can change the rules for new hires if they like. Otherwise, they have only one fair alternative - suck it up, raise taxes, cut pork spending, fully fund the retirement systems, and honor their commitments to retirees and current employees. Yeah, like that’ll happen.

 

[SILVER SURFER]

because it also allows employee pensions to be larger than employee salaries...

(oops, full disclosure, I'm vested in SURS...)

WHOA!! With all due respect, some clarification is needed lest those who think state pensions are overly generous also think those pensions start out larger than salaries.

Employees under the State Universities Retirement System (SURS) contribute 8% of their gross salary toward their retirement (9.5% for police and firefighters). SURS has both defined contribution and defined benefit plans. Under the latter, there are several methods of calculating the initial pension, depending on individual circumstance. But in general, it is a percentage, that depends on years of service, of the average of the four highest consecutive years' salaries. The maximum is 80% with 36 years' service. There is a 3% annual COLA compounded on the pension.

So yes, it is possible for the pension to become larger than the salary...IF you live long enough.

 

[Linc]

I seem to be one of the few retired teachers in Illinois who realizes a 75% payout of your last 4-year salary average, propped up by golden parachutes and non-teaching duties, is unsustainable. Teacher Unions have kept silent for 40 years while the State underfunded TRS. Without the Tribune, we would know little of the pension abuses, such as two AFT goons subbing for ONE day and then receiving twice the TRS pension I get.

There is no legal guarantee of paying this State pension in the FEDERAL Constitution as we are seeing with Detroit right now. Private citizens will soon put up Constitutional Amendments to cut public pensions. How would you feel if education money was going to public pension, if you had to teach 12 more years than you did, if you were paying twice as much of your salary for TRS? You, I and the rest of our teaching brethren will lose the "entitlement" argument in the court of public opinion and judicially.

Excuse me? How is taking a position with the understanding and agreement on compensation offered make me part of the problem? I fulfilled my end of the agreement and am rightly entitled to what was layed out in the terms of my employment.

Tell you what, do you work? OK, well lets say you put in your 80 hours and you were promised $20/hr but come payday they say, "You know what? Sorry, I know you agreed to work for $20 an hour but Joey over in accounting? Yeah, he decided to fudge the ledgers a little bit so we're gonna give you $5 dollars an hour instead. Oh and we'll take $2 out of that $5 to cover the previously free healthcare you were promised too, as part of your employment contract, but, hey, you know, you'll just have to make due..." Now instead of 80 hours think if it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years of your life. Get the picture?



Perhaps the ZERO should be the tax breaks IL gives to corporations or perhaps it should come from the cash cow that goes to the world without end road construction, HHS, and various other pet projects of Mike "My Money" Madigan.

 

[Linc]

BULL****!!

is what our public pension will look like with that DC dysfunction mentality

There are differences among the state’s several retirement systems and there have been recent changes for new hires. But they generally promised a pension based on average salary and years’ service, a 3% annual COLA compounded on the pension, and free health insurance. (Yes, I know it wasn’t free for TRS.) Maybe the state made a bad bargain but they made it nonetheless. The pensioners held up their end by contributing a healthy percentage of their salary while providing service for years. The state welched on the health insurance. Despite Numbnuts Nardulli’s ruling, that is a reduction of benefits in violation of the state constitution.

All five public pensions should be in one fund. Insisting on free health insurance is why the IRTA should be dismissed from the table.

The governor and the general assembly can change the rules for new hires if they like. Otherwise, they have only one fair alternative - suck it up, raise taxes, cut pork spending, fully fund the retirement systems, and honor their commitments to retirees and current employees. Yeah, like that’ll happen.

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. Private pensioneers far outnumber public ones and it is a matter of time for the Constitutional amendments.

 

[ChezC3]

I seem to be one of the few retired teachers in Illinois who realizes a 75% payout of your last 4-year salary average, propped up by golden parachutes and non-teaching duties, is unsustainable. Teacher Unions have kept silent for 40 years while the State underfunded TRS. Without the Tribune, we would know little of the pension abuses, such as two AFT goons subbing for ONE day and then receiving twice the TRS pension I get.

There is no legal guarantee of paying this State pension in the FEDERAL Constitution as we are seeing with Detroit right now. Private citizens will soon put up Constitutional Amendments to cut public pensions. How would you feel if education money was going to public pension, if you had to teach 12 more years than you did, if you were paying twice as much of your salary for TRS? You, I and the rest of our teaching brethren will lose the "entitlement" argument in the court of public opinion and judicially.

It's not that you realize anything others haven't it's that you've given up. (and I was staff not faculty)

 

[ChezC3]

WHOA!! With all due respect, some clarification is needed lest those who think state pensions are overly generous also think those pensions start out larger than salaries.

Employees under the State Universities Retirement System (SURS) contribute 8% of their gross salary toward their retirement (9.5% for police and firefighters). SURS has both defined contribution and defined benefit plans. Under the latter, there are several methods of calculating the initial pension, depending on individual circumstance. But in general, it is a percentage, that depends on years of service, of the average of the four highest consecutive years' salaries. The maximum is 80% with 36 years' service. There is a 3% annual COLA compounded on the pension.

So yes, it is possible for the pension to become larger than the salary...IF you live long enough.

Thanks for showing that, I wasn't trying to get into specifics like that. But lets remember, 1. We pay no state tax on the distribution, 4% saved. We no longer contribute 8% into it upon retirment, so 80% +12% = 92%

retire @ 55 3% annually increased 56 = 95% 57 = 98% 58 = 101%

I hope I'm older than 58 when I croak. But I also didn't put in 30, so...

30 gives you 80% last I checked anything over goes back to the employee.

 

[Linc]

It's not that you realize anything others haven't it's that you've given up. (and I was staff not faculty)

Certified or not, makes a big difference? Unsustainably high pensions to administrators started this dive off the cliff. Stupid, selfish BOEs giving away the farm, especially in the rich, collar counties now dont want to pay to play. I can't give up on what isn't there.

 

[SILVER SURFER]

Thanks for showing that, I wasn't trying to get into specifics like that. But lets remember, 1. We pay no state tax on the distribution, 4% saved. We no longer contribute 8% into it upon retirment, so 80% +12% = 92%

retire @ 55 3% annually increased 56 = 95% 57 = 98% 58 = 101%

I hope I'm older than 58 when I croak. But I also didn't put in 30, so...

30 gives you 80% last I checked anything over goes back to the employee.

To get even more specific, if you're on the general formula under the traditional plan, which I'd guess most current retirees are, it's 2.2% of your final average earnings (the average of your four highest consecutive years' salaries) per service year. So to get the maximum 80%, you have to work a little over 36 years (80% / 2.2% ~ 36).

You can't really include the savings on taxes and retirement contributions. Granted, those may increase your net income over what it would be if you were still paying them, but they do NOT increase your gross pension.

So, if you start at the maximum 80% pension and add 3% annually...

80% + 3% + 3% + 3% + 3% + 3% + 3% + 3% = 101%

IOW, it will take 7 years for your pension to equal your salary at retirement. That ignores the compounding effect but it's still pretty close. Obviously, it will take longer if you start at less than 80% pension. If you start working right out of high school, you can get your 36 years in by the time you're 55. But I suspect a lot of folks start later and get less service time. This also ignores that you hopefully would have gotten salary increases during those 7 years had you continued working. Looking at it that way, your pension may exceed what your salary was when you retired but it may NEVER exceed what it would have been had you not.

So I say again, your pension MAY exceed your salary IF you live long enough.