Krushchev was rescuing Crimea when he made it Ukrainian — it must remain so

[dandolo2k]

By the early 1950's, Moscow had become tired of subsidizing Crimea, which attempts to support itself on two shakey pillars... agriculture (grains and vineyards) and tourism.

Baloney. Moscow was subsidizing Ukraine itself. So it were Russian money, spent on Crimea. Not Ukrainian.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Now you know the rest of the story.

Mother Russia and her apologists in the forums are not going to be pleased with this.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Baloney. Moscow was subsidizing Ukraine itself. So it were Russian money, spent on Crimea. Not Ukrainian.

Ukraine’s modern economy was developed as an integral part of the larger economy of the Soviet Union. While receiving a smaller share (16 percent in the 1980s) of the Soviet Union’s investment funds and producing a greater proportion of goods with a lower set price, Ukraine was able to produce a larger share of total output in the industrial (17 percent) and especially the agricultural (21 percent) sectors of the Soviet economy. In effect, a centrally directed transfer of wealth from Ukraine, amounting to one-fifth of its national income, helped to finance economic development in other parts of the Soviet Union, notably Russia and Kazakhstan.

Ukraine - Agriculture, Industry, Trade | Britannica

Ukraine - Agriculture, Industry, Trade: Ukraine’s modern economy was developed as an integral part of the larger economy of the Soviet Union. While receiving a smaller share (16 percent in the 1980s) of the Soviet Union’s investment funds and producing a greater proportion of goods with a lower...

www.britannica.com

 

[Tigerace117]

Mother Russia and her apologists in the forums are not going to be pleased with this.

More than seventy percent of Crimea voted for a guy whose agenda was to leave Ukraine and eventually reunite with Russia in 1994.

Funny how the West’s apologists keep leaving that out.

 

[Rogue Valley]

As was demonstrated in Post #28, the Ukrainian SSR was basically a self-sustaining economy.

Russia wasn't needed. That remains the case today.

 

[Tigerace117]

As was demonstrated in Post #28, the Ukrainian SSR was basically a self-sustaining economy.

Russia wasn't needed. That remains the case today.

The key word there is SSR. Ukraine was very much a part of the Soviet Union, run by generations of Ukrainians loyal to the the Soviet Union, and the only smaller post Stalin SSR to produce a Soviet premier.

 

[Yakshi]

Baloney. Moscow was subsidizing Ukraine itself. So it were Russian money, spent on Crimea. Not Ukrainian.

You don't know anything about the topic.

 

[j brown's body]

As was demonstrated in Post #28, the Ukrainian SSR was basically a self-sustaining economy.

Russia wasn't needed. That remains the case today.

And Crimeans do not prefer to be part of Russia.

Honestly, who would? Their life expectancy is a full decade lower than in the west.

 

[Tigerace117]

And Crimeans do not prefer to be part of Russia.

Honestly, who would? Their life expectancy is a full decade lower than in the west.

A guy running on a platform of eventual reintegration into Russia won over 70 percent of the vote there in 1994.

There has been minimal resistance to Russian rule there over more than a decade now.

The facts simply don’t support your claims.

 

[j brown's body]

A guy running on a platform of eventual reintegration into Russia won over 70 percent of the vote there in 1994.

There has been minimal resistance to Russian rule there over more than a decade now.

The facts simply don’t support your claims.

To be fair, that was back when Russia had a chance to become a liberal democracy.

 

[Yakshi]

And Crimeans do not prefer to be part of Russia.

Honestly, who would? Their life expectancy is a full decade lower than in the west.

Exactly. And your observation has been borne out in polls of Crimeans, before Crimea was ever occupied by russians.

Anyone who says that Crimeans want to be part of russia is lying, stupid, or both.

In any case, such people are a waste of life, best ignored.

 

[Tigerace117]

To be fair, that was back when Russia had a chance to become a liberal democracy.

Russia would still be treated the exact same way if it was a democracy. The West mourning for the days in which it was too weak to pose a challenge shows that rather clearly.

 

[Tigerace117]

Exactly. And your observation has been borne out in polls of Crimeans, before Crimea was ever occupied by russians.

Anyone who says that Crimeans want to be part of russia is lying, stupid, or both.

In any case, such people are a waste of life, best ignored.

“During the second round of the 1994 Crimean presidential elections, Meshkov secured a victory with 72.9 percent of the votes and became the sole president of the republic.[8][9]

Yuri Meshkov's primary political agenda was to establish much closer ties with the Russian Federation, potentially leading to the reunification of Crimea with Russia. Meshkov attempted to initiate a number of measures to prepare Crimea for future integration with Russia; though he was able to align Crimea's time zone with that of Russia he was unable to fully implement his platform nor obtain the support of Russian president Boris Yeltsin for Crimean accession to the Russian Federation.[10]

In response to his efforts, in 1995 the Ukrainian parliament scrapped the Crimean Constitution, abolished the post of president on March 17 and moved to depose and exile Meshkov from the country.[11][12] Ukrainian special forces entered Meshkov's residence, disarmed his bodyguards and put him on a plane to Moscow.[13]”

Yuriy Meshkov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gee, the actual facts say otherwise....rather clearly.

 

[j brown's body]

Russia would still be treated the exact same way if it was a democracy. The West mourning for the days in which it was too weak to pose a challenge shows that rather clearly.

One can understand Crimea wanting to be part of a liberal demicracy, but things have changed, now Russua's a authoritarian oligarchy. Who wants to be part of that?

 

[Tigerace117]

One can understand Crimea wanting to be part of a liberal demicracy, but things have changed, now Russua's a authoritarian oligarchy. Who wants to ge part of that?

America, the supposed bastion of “liberal democracy”, is in fact a corrupt oligarchy and has been for decades, yet people still immigrate to it every year.

Given Ukraine’s response to Crimea’s democratic wishes was military force, it’s hardly a shock the Crimeans refused to give up on their aspirations to rejoin Russia.

And btw, even Yeltsin was prepared to use military force over Crimea.

 

[j brown's body]

America, the supposed bastion of “liberal democracy”, is in fact a corrupt oligarchy and has been for decades, yet people still immigrate to it every year.

Given Ukraine’s response to Crimea’s democratic wishes was military force, it’s hardly a shock the Crimeans refused to give up on their aspirations to rejoin Russia.

And btw, even Yeltsin was prepared to use military force over Crimea.

Strawman. Crimea becoming part of the US was not part of the equation.

 

[Tigerace117]

Strawman. Crimea becoming part of the US was not part of the equation.

You asked why anyone would want to be a part of an oligarchy. The US is an oligarchy and still receives regular immigration, so clearly there are few people who actually worry about that.

And given Crimea’s democratic wishes were met with military force from the Ukrainian government, as mentioned it’s hardly a shock the Crimeans jumped at the chance to accomplish their long time goal twenty years later.

 

[j brown's body]

You asked why anyone would want to be a part of an oligarchy. The US is an oligarchy and still receives regular immigration, so clearly there are few people who actually worry about that.

And given Crimea’s democratic wishes were met with military force from the Ukrainian government, as mentioned it’s hardly a shock the Crimeans jumped at the chance to accomplish their long time goal twenty years later.

I notice Greenland is not rushing to join the US.

Proves my point.

 

[Tigerace117]

I notice Greenland is not rushing to join the US.

Proves my point.

That’s because, amongst other reasons, Greenland knows how the US treats minorities.

Crimea, whose population is mostly either ethnically Russian or Russian speaking to begin with, doesn’t have that concern.

 

[j brown's body]

That’s because, amongst other reasons, Greenland knows how the US treats minorities.

Crimea, whose population is mostly either ethnically Russian or Russian speaking to begin with, doesn’t have that concern.

Either way, one cannot blame Crimea or Greenland for not wanting to be ruled by an authoritarian oligarchy.

 

[Tigerace117]

Either way, one cannot blame Crimea or Greenland for not wanting to be ruled by an authoritarian oligarchy.

Except most Crimeans have repeatedly demonstrated their desire democratically to leave Ukraine. The Western backed use of military force to try and prevent that appears to have failed pathetically to change their minds.

And, as was already pointed out to you, Russia was willing to use military force under Yeltsin to defend the Crimeans as well.

Greenland, on the other hand, has no real connections to the United States, and its doubtful you could find seventy three people— much less seventy three percent of the voting public— who’d support annexation into America.

 

[j brown's body]

Except most Crimeans have repeatedly demonstrated their desire democratically to leave Ukraine. The Western backed use of military force to try and prevent that appears to have failed pathetically to change their minds.

And, as was already pointed out to you, Russia was willing to use military force under Yeltsin to defend the Crimeans as well.

Greenland, on the other hand, has no real connections to the United States, and its doubtful you could find seventy three people— much less seventy three percent of the voting public— who’d support annexation into America.

You cite an election result that is about 30 years old.

 

[Tigerace117]

You cite an election result that is about 30 years old.

And yet, as the enthusiastic reaction to arriving Russian forces in Crimea and the likewise generally positive views over the last decade plus show, nobody’s minds appear to have changed in the following years.

 

[j brown's body]

And yet, as the enthusiastic reaction to arriving Russian forces in Crimea and the likewise generally positive views over the last decade plus show, nobody’s minds appear to have changed in the following years.

Your speculation is noted without surprise.

 

[Yakshi]

You cite an election result that is about 30 years old.

And ignoring all of the other information that proves his opinion to be false.

He's been repeating the same four or five lies about Crimea for the last three-plus years.

I guess being wrong hurts his ego so much that he'll spend the rest of this glorious Sunday typing the same dumb lies and clicking Post Reply.