KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

JumpinJack · Jun 30, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
Oh you mean Tim McVeigh? Actually when I read the book American Terrorist about the OKC bombing, it pretty much told his life story, and he seemed fine until he got out of the Army, and something changed, big time! Either he was suffering from mental illness (which might very well be true since he did have a breakdown and was suicidal) or he was always an odd duck. Still I remember reading about the militia movement that started with the FBI murder of Randy Weaver's wife and family dog at Ruby Ridge, then of course the Waco mess, and that just got the militia movement going stronger.

Yes, that's him. McVeigh. I don't subscribe to the notion that someone who does something evil has a mental illness, any more so than any other criminal. All violent criminals are disturbed in one way or another, or they wouldn't be violent criminals.

The Ruby Ridge incident: There was no murder, except intentional homicide of one of the deputies (the first shot fired at a person killed the deputy).

Weaver has a large weapons cache in his cabin. The whole family took up arms and set up in armed positions around the cabin. A firefight erupted. The siege lasted for days.

The marshals were doing their job. They could've handled it better, but when you take up arms against the feds, you are assuming the risk you'll get shot. Even if you are a woman or teenager. They took a risk that they surely knew they were taking, and they were on the losing end....as all criminals are when they resist arrest from the feds. Weaver was finally arrested, after he placed his family in jeapordy.

None of the marshals was found guilty of wrongdoing. There was no murder.

Wacko country bumpkins. If Weaver had just gone with the arresting marshals, none of the killings would have happened. These people who hang out in the woods filled with hatred for the government are very dangerous. Bad things tend to happen whenever they're around.

Moot · Jul 1, 2015

jmotivator said:
False. They are more anti-Semite progressives these days.

LOL Get real.

shrubnose · Jul 1, 2015

EnigmaO01 said:
Or cause all hell to break loose bringing back the violence we witnessed in the 60's.

Click to expand...

Which will, eventually, speed up the demise of the Confederate flag. It's six of one and half a dozen of another.

Throw away your Confederate money, the South will not rise again. :lol:

Hatuey · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
Obviously mainstream history is not telling the truth since it never took my granddaddy, who was fortunate enough to get his facts straight from the horse's mouth, long to refute the myths

That's nice, honey.

Black Dog · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
Obviously mainstream history is not telling the truth since it never took my granddaddy, who was fortunate enough to get his facts straight from the horse's mouth, long to refute the myths

So you have no real proof? Just anecdotal evidence that means literally nothing in the realm of debate or even polite discussion.

JasperL · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
No it actually started by Scotsmen in the South, fed up with the fact that the South had no protection after the war. See the Scottish call themselves clans, so they banded together to be the ones to protect the South because the police of the time weren't doing squat. When they were no longer needed, the KKK was disbanded, only to be hijacked in the 1960's into the racist bunch we know today

LOL. Do you have a cite for this "history"?

JasperL · Jul 1, 2015

Lutherf said:
I'm not "OK" with any of that stuff and it takes a pretty damned warped reading of what I wrote to come up with that theory.

The flag is a symbol of southern heritage and its meaning is defined by the actions of southerners. I would like to note that part of that heritage is not only overcoming the effects of the war and the history of racism but THRIVING since those practices were abolished. Furthermore, the people of Charleston (and across the south) appointed themselves with a level of dignity and grace after the shooting at Emanuel AME that we should all aspire to. THAT is the heritage of the south.

If you want to claim the flag is a symbol of "Southern Heritage" then fine. But you also have to at least have the courtesy to acknowledge its well documented history as a symbol of racism, slavery and the defense of Jim Crow. It just was used as a rallying symbol across the South during the civil rights battles, with whites opposed waving that banner.

It's not an accident that the rebel flag is being defended by the KKK. They're using the flag the same way it was used in the 1950s and 60s by people in power working like heck to continue the centuries long oppression of blacks in the South.

I'm from here and the flag embarrasses me. Makes us look like the ignorant, racist white trash the rest of the country thinks we are. I'm sure it means "Southern Heritage" to the vast majority defending it, but to the rest of the WORLD, they see "racism" and "white supremacy" on display. Like it or not when you share a symbol with the KKK, and a racist mass murderer, you're doing something wrong.

tres borrachos · Jul 1, 2015

Beaudreaux said:
That'll never happen. The KKK is an extremely small fringe group that no one supports. IF there is an violence, it will be the few klansmen against the world - which means it will be over in just seconds.

Exactly. It's beyond ridiculous to assume that whatever violence the KKK would raise wouldn't be squelched in no time at all. They are a tiny fringe group.

The Black Panthers probably have a larger population.

jmotivator · Jul 1, 2015

Moot said:
LOL Get real.

Nice rebuttal.

Ockham · Jul 1, 2015

Cephus said:
Following the insurgence of the Southern Democrats, a lot of actual conservatives left the GOP for the Libertarian party, but most just bite their tongue and vote for the GOP anyhow. We have no conservative party in this country, none that follow the fundamental pillars of conservatism: personal and fiscal responsibility, small-government and keeping the government the hell out of the lives of the citizens. Nobody does that.

And I would suggest that is why many of our problems continue and even thrive.

rhinefire · Jul 1, 2015

clownboy said:
Not quite. They were started as a community defense org to protect against the looting of southern communities after the war. The white robes were to make them appear as ghosts to scare the superstitious of the time, and there were a lot of superstitious folks.

They quickly evolved into the hate group we've seen since.

Good post. Typically, most people don't know the whole story despite endless avenues to the media to see the facts. Fearing the Klan is equal to fearing a loaf of bread.

EnigmaO01 · Jul 1, 2015

Beaudreaux said:
That'll never happen. The KKK is an extremely small fringe group that no one supports. IF there is an violence, it will be the few klansmen against the world - which means it will be over in just seconds.

So the recent black church burnings and brisk sales of the confederate flag are inconsequential?

EnigmaO01 · Jul 1, 2015

jmotivator said:
False. They are more anti-Semite progressives these days.

Riiiiight. LMAO.

EnigmaO01 · Jul 1, 2015

shrubnose said:
Which will, eventually, speed up the demise of the Confederate flag. It's six of one and half a dozen of another.

Throw away your Confederate money, the South will not rise again. :lol:

I wish it was that easy and simple.

Deuce · Jul 1, 2015

Cephus said:
Words mean things. If you use a word to mean something that the word doesn't mean, that is the incorrect word to use.

Yeah, and you are incorrectly using "liberal" in the place of "authoritarian" and "conservative" in the place of "libertarian."

Cephus · Jul 1, 2015

Deuce said:
Yeah, and you are incorrectly using "liberal" in the place of "authoritarian" and "conservative" in the place of "libertarian."

Except that the only reason "libertarian" means that is that a lot of conservatives went there following the takeover of the GOP by expatriate liberals.

Deuce · Jul 1, 2015

Cephus said:
Except that the only reason "libertarian" means that is that a lot of conservatives went there following the takeover of the GOP by expatriate liberals.

No, because words mean things.

HorseLoverGirl · Jul 1, 2015

JasperL said:
LOL. Do you have a cite for this "history"?

I believe it was in one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy magazines that I have received over the years by being a member. However the FACT remains that the FIRST KKK (the 3rd one, entirely different from the first) is the one that is still around today. Different groups, or clans, rose up all over the South during reconstruction to protect the South because anyone who knows Southern history knows that the police force wasn't gonna. They try and make it like it was a Greek name, meaning circle, but the Scottish tend to live in clans themselves. The South has a heavy Scottish population (a lot of them come together in the NC mountains for the Scottish Highland Games every year) and so the fact that the Scottish were behind the original KKK does not surprise me.

Beaudreaux · Jul 1, 2015

EnigmaO01 said:
So the recent black church burnings and brisk sales of the confederate flag are inconsequential?

The ATF and the FBI said today that the church fires have nothing to do with racism. So, unless you have evidence to the contrary, the answer to that part of your question is yes. As for the sale of the flag, yes, that too is inconsequential. It is becoming a collectors item since it is being banned so people are buying it while it is available.

However, if you are so concerned about it, what evidence do you have that the KKK or another hate group has anything to do with either one?

JasperL · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
I believe it was in one of the United Daughters of the Confederacy magazines that I have received over the years by being a member. However the FACT remains that the FIRST KKK (the 3rd one, entirely different from the first) is the one that is still around today. Different groups, or clans, rose up all over the South during reconstruction to protect the South because anyone who knows Southern history knows that the police force wasn't gonna. They try and make it like it was a Greek name, meaning circle, but the Scottish tend to live in clans themselves. The South has a heavy Scottish population (a lot of them come together in the NC mountains for the Scottish Highland Games every year) and so the fact that the Scottish were behind the original KKK does not surprise me.

Here's one of many consistent histories of the early Klan. "Terrorists" and "terrorism" are words frequently used to describe them and their activities.

Ku Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Era | New Georgia Encyclopedia

It is impossible to untangle local vigilante violence from political terrorism by the organized Klan, but it is clear that attacks on blacks became common during 1868. Freedmen's Bureau agents reported 336 cases of murder or assault with intent to kill on freedmen across the state from January 1 through November 15 of 1868.

The political terrorism was effective. While Republican gubernatorial candidate Rufus B. Bullock carried the state in April 1868 elections, by November Democratic presidential candidate Horatio Seymour was in the lead. In some counties the contrast was incredible. In John Reed's Oglethorpe County, 1,144 people had voted Republican in April, while only 116 dared to vote Republican in November when Reed's armed Klansmen surrounded the polls. In Columbia County armed Klansmen not only intimidated voters but even cowed federal soldiers sent to guard the polling place. Not surprisingly, while 1,222 votes had been cast in Columbia County for Republican governor Rufus Bullock in April, only one vote was cast for Republican presidential candidate Ulysses Grant in November 1868. Similar political terrorism and control of the polling places help account for Georgia's quick "redemption" and return to conservative white Democratic control by late 1871.

Etc. Saying their purpose was limited to "protecting" the South doesn't seem to square with their actual history. I will say it's not surprising that the "United Daughters of the Confederacy" might want to play down that whole terrorism thing....

justabubba · Jul 1, 2015

d0gbreath said:
Conservatism is dead. Everything is going to start changing at a rate that will spin all of our heads.

what causes you to believe this?

HorseLoverGirl · Jul 1, 2015

JasperL said:
Here's one of many consistent histories of the early Klan. "Terrorists" and "terrorism" are words frequently used to describe them and their activities.

Ku Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Era | New Georgia Encyclopedia

Etc. Saying their purpose was limited to "protecting" the South doesn't seem to square with their actual history. I will say it's not surprising that the "United Daughters of the Confederacy" might want to play down that whole terrorism thing....

Yeah it doesn't surprise you that Confederate organizations protect the true heritage of the South huh?

JasperL · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
Yeah it doesn't surprise you that Confederate organizations protect the true heritage of the South huh?

The true heritage of the KKK is as a terrorist organization. So I don't know what kind of propaganda the United Daughters of the Confederacy are putting out but if you remember correctly it's of a quite....misleading variety.

But if you've got different history, please cite it!

d0gbreath · Jul 1, 2015

justabubba said:
what causes you to believe this?

It's just my experience. Ike didn't change things. He just rolled with the flow. It's stylish to change things now. It"s exponential.

I'll be rappin here all week. Surprise Elvis show on Saturday.
Try the veal!

Kobie · Jul 1, 2015

HorseLoverGirl said:
Yeah it doesn't surprise you that Confederate organizations protect the true heritage of the South huh?

"True heritage of the south" = what the Klan was doing? And you wonder why people say that stupid Stars-N-Bars flag has racist connotations.

KKK Plans Confederate Flag Rally at SC Capitol

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