Killing of civilians in Bucha and Kyiv condemned as ‘terrible war crime’

[Cardinal]

My answer is that I don't think Putin cares.

Russia's military is not what most of the world, including Putin, assumed it was or would be. Troops weren't/aren't properly trained. Many were little more than cannon-fodder. Proper and adequate matériel was apparently lacking before the Russian army even crossed the border to Ukraine. Russian intelligence seems to have been provided by Mrs. Moretnikov's 5 grade class.

From all I have read Russia went to war with relatively few seasoned NCO's. BIG MISTAKE. Poorly disciplined troops have a tendency to act like an organized mob. And so the did.

Putin is ultimately the reason for the atrocities. My guess is that he does not care. He wants a victory at whatever cost.

Putin already responded to the number of Russian casualties: “There are casualties in war.”

Russian soldiers as cannon fodder isn’t historically unusual. In fact, it’s baked into the pie. The estimates I’ve heard that for every Ukrainian soldier lost Russia can psychologically bear to lose anywhere between 100 and 500.

 

[HK.227]

What are your thoughts about those terrible pictures from Bucha in Ukraine?

Saddened, but not surprised.
However, while I can understand Ukrainian anger, it is a bit much to claim that this is the worst war crime of the century. Considering what humans usually do to each other in war, this conflict has so far been quite restrained by comparison.
Conflicts like Congo or South Sudan fought by large, modern militaries would make WW2 pale in comparison, even without considering WMD's. It's important we don't forget that, or that's where we might inadvertently end up.

 

[Rumpel]

What do you think?
Did Putin know about those atrocities in Bucha?
Or did he not know?
Or maybe he specially ordered those atrocities?

 

[Rumpel]

Putin Ordered This.

He's obviously psychotic enough to push for these kinds of atrocities.

You may be right here, I am afraid .....

 

[Rumpel]

My answer is that I don't think Putin cares.

Russia's military is not what most of the world, including Putin, assumed it was or would be. Troops weren't/aren't properly trained. Many were little more than cannon-fodder. Proper and adequate matériel was apparently lacking before the Russian army even crossed the border to Ukraine. Russian intelligence seems to have been provided by Mrs. Moretnikov's 5 grade class.

From all I have read Russia went to war with relatively few seasoned NCO's. BIG MISTAKE. Poorly disciplined troops have a tendency to act like an organized mob. And so the did.

Putin is ultimately the reason for the atrocities. My guess is that he does not care. He wants a victory at whatever cost.

It is most terrible - and you are also right, I am afraid.

 

[Rumpel]

Now 7 out of 8 think:

Putin ordered this - and more of the same​

 

[multivita-man]

War crimes for sure, and I'll do one better: genocide.

This reminds me a lot of what I've read about the Japanese massacre of Nanjing, China in 1937. Months earlier, the Japanese troops attempted to invade Shanghai. They were told they'd be welcomed as liberators (from Western colonizers). Instead they faced intense resistance from the Chinese nationalist forces. The Japanese took heavy losses, which traumatized the Japanese soldiers who vowed to destroy any resistance from that point forward. When they arrived at Nanjing, any resistance was met with extreme brutality. Ironically, it was a Nazi living in China who established a safety zone and helped end the massacre.

It's even worse in Ukraine because unlike Japan's military in China, which was winning, the Russians know they're losing. They're infuriated by people they've been brainwashed to believe are second-class and inferior to Russians. In their minds, if Ukraine cannot exist as a part of the greater Russian empire, then it just shouldn't exist at all. I don't think imperial Japan even went quite that far. But that's what the example of Bucha makes clear: there are apparently strong elements within Russia's leadership and their military that subscribe to this thinking, that Ukraine should not exist at all if it can't be part of Russia. It is absolutely a war crime, absolutely a form of genocide.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Jeezus, Biden looks HORRIBLE already? Do you think anyone needs raped, executed bodies to make Biden look bad? Even with a servicing media, Biden's poll number are in the toilet! Dems are going to get trounced in November and hell, Biden might be removed before 2024!
Biden is self limiting and he's going to be gone before long. We don't need Russians committing genocide to decide Biden's fate.

Biden's "sell by" date is nigh. Everyone know that.

You didn't need the war in Ukraine to tell us how much you hate Biden. I have a feeling your comments are much more about Biden hate, than Ukraine.

 

[Rumpel]

It's even worse in Ukraine because unlike Japan's military in China, which was winning, the Russians know they're losing. They're infuriated by people they've been brainwashed to believe are second-class and inferior to Russians. In their minds, if Ukraine cannot exist as a part of the greater Russian empire, then it just shouldn't exist at all. I don't think imperial Japan even went quite that far. But that's what the example of Bucha makes clear: there are apparently strong elements within Russia's leadership and their military that subscribe to this thinking, that Ukraine should not exist at all if it can't be part of Russia. It is absolutely a war crime, absolutely a form of genocide.

So I see it as well.
A great misery!

 

[Rumpel]

7 out of 10 say:

Putin knows all this very well​

 

[Lycanthrope]

War crime. Putin may or may not have ordered it (we have no way of knowing) but he set the stage for this via invading Ukraine.

It's good to see that, apart from the usual rush to blame Biden no one on the right (from Comrade Carlson on down) is attempting to justify or deflect from this action.

 

[Rumpel]

It's good to see that, apart from the usual rush to blame Biden no one on the right (from Comrade Carlson on down) is attempting to justify or deflect from this action.

I have a question: Who is Comrade Carlson?

 

[Lycanthrope]

I have a question: Who is Comrade Carlson?

Tucker Carlson, FOX's #1 cash cow and designated Putin apologist and propagandist.



Yes yes, MSNBC...but the videos of Tucker are what they are, as are Russia's willingness to use Comrade Carlson as part of their own propaganda campaign.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Submitted without comment (warning: video in the link may be disturbing to some):

Former world heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko posted graphic footage of dead, bound bodies in Bucha and accused Putin of 'genocide'

"This is genocide of the Ukrainian population," Klitschko said in the video in Bucha, where officials say about 300 people were buried in mass graves.

www.yahoo.com

 

[multivita-man]

I think it's important to go beyond war crime and label it genocide, because that's what this is. They'd do well to intercept communications or find hackers who can get their hands on sensitive documents that prove it, but even in the absence of such proof, what else are we to make of deliberately making large urban areas uninhabitable, driving much of the population out of Ukraine's borders, and in some cases even forcibly deporting them to Russia, where they'll probably be shipped off to some sort of 'labor' or 'reeducation' camp. It's sickening to watch and it deserves nothing less than the worst, most extreme economic sanctions on Russia *and* on any nation, including China and India, that aids them.

 

[uptower]

 

[Rumpel]

I think it's important to go beyond war crime and label it genocide, because that's what this is. They'd do well to intercept communications or find hackers who can get their hands on sensitive documents that prove it, but even in the absence of such proof, what else are we to make of deliberately making large urban areas uninhabitable, driving much of the population out of Ukraine's borders, and in some cases even forcibly deporting them to Russia, where they'll probably be shipped off to some sort of 'labor' or 'reeducation' camp. I

Yes, one can call all this genocide!

 

[rickc]

That is the way Russia fights a war. Terrorize the population into submission. Hell it's the way they have always ruled Russia.

Everywhere they fight they leave the same trail. Syria, Afghanistan most recently.

Russia needs to be walled off from the rest of the world much like North Korea

 

[jpevans]

This is not an adult debate, rather, straw man dishonesty.
Biden is the leader of the free world, and he could provide Ukraine with the right tools for the job.
He's a feckless coward in the face of genocide.

Was Lt. Calley guilty of genocide at My Lai?
What we have here are clearly War Crimes, it will take more investigation to support genocide charges, & sadly more innocent civilian deaths. Whether Pooten actually ordered the killing of unarmed civilians, it's his ultimate responsibility for what his troops do.

 

[jpevans]

Splitting hairs about the definition of genocide from total safety, as Ukranians are slaughtered in cold blood.
Meh, Holocaust. Just reality. Watcha gonna do?

The level of ghoulishness is profound.

Riddle me this: Was lynching genocide. Was the only good Indian, is a dead Indian policy, genocide?

gen·o·cide
[ˈjenəˌsīd]

NOUN

1. the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group:
   
   
   

 

[jpevans]

I don’t feel strongly enough about this to start a poll of my own, but I thought “This is a war crime” was an odd choice to leave out.

As was Is this Genocide...

 

[jpevans]

That is the way Russia fights a war. Terrorize the population into submission. Hell it's the way they have always ruled Russia.

Everywhere they fight they leave the same trail. Syria, Afghanistan most recently.

Russia needs to be walled off from the rest of the world much like North Korea

I agree with Lindsey G. (for once) on this, the Russian people can end this by taking Pooten out. While the facts coming out of Russia say that the Russian public is behind him. They seemingly believe that they are saving the Ukrainians from Nazi's. They are burring a whole lot of their children, if, that is if they are being informed of the Russian losses.

 

[jpevans]

Saddened, but not surprised.
However, while I can understand Ukrainian anger, it is a bit much to claim that this is the worst war crime of the century. Considering what humans usually do to each other in war, this conflict has so far been quite restrained by comparison.
Conflicts like Congo or South Sudan fought by large, modern militaries would make WW2 pale in comparison, even without considering WMD's. It's important we don't forget that, or that's where we might inadvertently end up.

Does it have to be the worse to get notice?
I am concerned that NATO, whose claim to fame is protecting democracy, refuses to engage to help this underdog democracy, because they aren't in the club. They make that claim seem, well BS.

 

[oneworld2]

~Joe Biden

Remarks by President Biden on the United Efforts of the Free World to Support the People of Ukraine | The White House

The Royal Castle in WarsawWarsaw, Poland 6:16 P.M. CET THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please, if you have a seat, be seated. (Laughter.) If you don’t, come up on stage. Thank you very much. It’s a great honor to be here. Mr. President, they tell me you’re over there...

www.whitehouse.gov

That he is prepared to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian should worry you but it appears you support it.

 

[oneworld2]

​

4 out of 4 say:​

Putin ordered this​

There's no saying how many posters here hold idiotic views