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Kill Jews, Get Your Own State

H. E. Panqui said:
:rolleyes: :poop:^^^

I don't want the US to support Hamas, ffs!!!

YOU, on the other hand, want the US to support IZrael!!!

YOU ARE THE WAR SUPPORTER, NOT ME!!

...duuuuuuuuuh... Republicrats! ugh...
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Have you ever considered discussing the actual issue instead of just indulging in epithets and childish misspelling of words?
 
Gardener said:
Have you ever considered discussing the actual issue instead of just indulging in epithets and childish misspelling of words?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: :poop: ^^^

Please!! bring more to the table than murderously retarded neocon propaganda...ugh..
 
Fledermaus said:
The question was:

Have you ever considered discussing the actual issue instead of just indulging in epithets and childish misspelling of words?
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.........which he proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that he can't.
 
dairyair said:
I've repeatedly told you. No cite, no belief.
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That's fair, but ask for cites whenever you have questions.


dairyair said:
We were talking 2 state solution. You claiming Israel wants one but Palestinians don't, I provided evidence with a link/story.
You said Israel wants a 2 state solution, even though my link clearly shows they are the side thwarting 2 state solution.
Now you provide a link, I thought to support yourself in Israel wanting a 2 state solution. Instead, you post this?????....
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We were not talking about the fact that Israel wants a two state solution and the Palestinians do not.

We were talking about the fact that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.


dairyair said:
What the heck is that? How's that even closely resemble Israel wanting a 2 state solution?
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It is evidence that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.


dairyair said:
They want to control gaza.
Click to expand...
Apparently not.


dairyair said:
Now you see why I ask for proof/link.
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You now have proof that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
That's fair, but ask for cites whenever you have questions.



We were not talking about the fact that Israel wants a two state solution and the Palestinians do not.

We were talking about the fact that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.



It is evidence that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.



Apparently not.



You now have proof that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza over to Arab states after the war.
Click to expand...
I question everyone's opinion. Especially on forums like this.
Believe 1/2 of what one sees, and none of what one hears/reads. I live by that motto.

I/we/someone, was on the topic of a 2 state solution. I provide link/proof, that Israel is not in the game to even talk about a 2 state solution.

Israel is at war, Gaza is not. They are a territory. No military. NO budget. They have a group of people who claim to be for the people of Gaza, but they forced themselves into that position. I know about 20 yrs ago. Irrelevant, even if the elections were not rigged.

Israel, according to you own link, wants control of Gaza, just not with military. How's that work for Gazan's? Who don't trust the country that blockades their life support supplies.

I have no proof of anything Israel wants to do.
 
dairyair said:
I question everyone's opinion. Especially on forums like this.
Believe 1/2 of what one sees, and none of what one hears/reads. I live by that motto.

I/we/someone, was on the topic of a 2 state solution. I provide link/proof, that Israel is not in the game to even talk about a 2 state solution.

Israel is at war, Gaza is not. They are a territory. No military. NO budget. They have a group of people who claim to be for the people of Gaza, but they forced themselves into that position. I know about 20 yrs ago. Irrelevant, even if the elections were not rigged.

Israel, according to you own link, wants control of Gaza, just not with military. How's that work for Gazan's? Who don't trust the country that blockades their life support supplies.

I have no proof of anything Israel wants to do.
Click to expand...

Hamas has a military arm and has had or still has locally produced rockets, military grade rockets, military grade mortars, military grade antitank weapons, military grade anti shipping weapons, mines, etc

Their budget has come from misapprpriating UN relief funds and donations from around the globe.

They were ELECTED by the Gaza Palestinians
 
Fledermaus said:
Hamas has a military arm and has had or still has locally produced rockets, military grade rockets, military grade mortars, military grade antitank weapons, military grade anti shipping weapons, mines, etc

Their budget has come from misapprpriating UN relief funds and donations from around the globe.

They were ELECTED by the Gaza Palestinians
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Hamas is not the gov't. Palestine has no gov't. No military. Palestine includes the West Bank at this time also. What gov't of Palestine controls that land?

I already told you, actually the other poster, 20 yrs ago in a rigged election is pointless to bring up. Why did you?
 
dairyair said:
You flipped and deflected.
I was unaware Germany invaded and occupied any parts of USA. How would Germans Kill US civilians? What parts of USA were they occupying.
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Exactly. So was the US or Germany the bad guys?

dairyair said:
Isreal is in all Parts of West Bank and Gaza. Taking land.
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Like the allies in ww2.

dairyair said:
Limiting food.
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As was inevitable in ww2.

dairyair said:
And making life hell for Palestinians.
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See above.

War is hell. Next time, don't start a war.
 
dairyair said:
I/we/someone, was on the topic of a 2 state solution. I provide link/proof, that Israel is not in the game to even talk about a 2 state solution.
Click to expand...
Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a two state solution only to be answered with rapes and murders.

Ehud Barack tried to negotiate it in 2000.

Ariel Sharon tried a unilateral withdrawal in 2005.

Ehud Olmert tried to negotiate it in 2008.

Benjamin Netanyahu offered it at the negotiating table in 2010 and 2014.

Israel is perhaps done with a two state solution now. But if so they certainly gave it an honest shot.


dairyair said:
Israel, according to you own link, wants control of Gaza, just not with military.
Click to expand...
Both links establish that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza off to Arab nations after the war is over.
 
dairyair said:
Hamas is not the gov't.
Click to expand...


In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank.

dairyair said:
Palestine has no gov't.
Click to expand...

Gaza does. Hamas.

dairyair said:
No military.
Click to expand...

In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.
dairyair said:
Palestine includes the West Bank at this time also.
Click to expand...

Gaza, Hamas.

dairyair said:
What gov't of Palestine controls that land?
Click to expand...

In Gaza, Hamas.

dairyair said:
I already told you, actually the other poster, 20 yrs ago in a rigged election is pointless to bring up. Why did you?
Click to expand...

In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank.
 
Atreus21 said:
Exactly. So was the US or Germany the bad guys?



Like the allies in ww2.



As was inevitable in ww2.



See above.

War is hell. Next time, don't start a war.
Click to expand...
Depends on who you ask, Germans or American. Maybe more than just Americans.
Much of the world fought against Germany.
So more would likely say the Germans were the bad guys. But Germans and those in their corner would say Americans were the bad guys.
I side on American and allies being the good guys.

Israel as a State didn't exist in WW2. No one wanted the displaced Jews after WW2, so Britain decided to take away Palestinian land. And the Jews have been taking more and more since then.

As for the Area of Israel, jews and palestinians have occupied that area for almost 2000 yrs in relative peace.
Something changed after WW2. 1948 more specifically that stirred the pot. And has been in contention and wars since that time.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a two state solution only to be answered with rapes and murders.

Ehud Barack tried to negotiate it in 2000.

Ariel Sharon tried a unilateral withdrawal in 2005.

Ehud Olmert tried to negotiate it in 2008.

Benjamin Netanyahu offered it at the negotiating table in 2010 and 2014.

Israel is perhaps done with a two state solution now. But if so they certainly gave it an honest shot.



Both links establish that Israel wants to hand the governance of Gaza off to Arab nations after the war is over.
Click to expand...
I don't believe you.
What failed in each of those cases.
What was attempted 20, 30, 40 yrs ago, doesn't bear much weight today.


...

HIGHLIGHTS​

  • Israel’s “clear and repeated rejection” of the two-State solution “is unacceptable”, said UN Secretary-General António Guterres, adding that “this refusal, and the denial of the right to statehood to the Palestinian people, would indefinitely prolong a conflict that has become a major threat to global peace and security.”
  • Council members roundly called for the two-State solution to be realized and for an end to the war, with many calling for an immediate ceasefire to end the suffering of Palestinians and allow the aid they urgently need to be delivered unhindered
  • Many speakers from the wider UN membership echoed those calls
  • “Stop this massacre,” said the Deputy Prime Minister of Jordan
  • “We are running out of time. There are two choices: a spreading fire or a ceasefire,” said the Foreign Affairs Minister for the Observer State of Palestine
  • Israel’s Ambassador said if the Council continues to provide aid to Gaza without considering the Iranian threat, the world faces “a very dark future”
news.un.org

Rejection of two-State solution by Israeli leadership 'unacceptable', says Guterres

Top diplomats debated the deepening crisis in the Gaza Strip and the whole Middle East in the UN Security Council on Tuesday against the backdrop of Israel’s unrelenting military operation, mounting death toll and escalating global calls for an immediate ceasefire. The UN Secretary-General told...
news.un.org news.un.org
 
Fledermaus said:
In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank.



Gaza does. Hamas.



In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.


Gaza, Hamas.



In Gaza, Hamas.



In 2006, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank.
Click to expand...
So you agree, no Palestinian gov't. Just administrative control. And assumed total power and never held elections, fair, again.
 
dairyair said:
I don't believe you.
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When you deny Israel's past peace offers, that justifies Israel not trying anymore and just keeping the West Bank for themselves.


dairyair said:
What failed in each of those cases.
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The two sides could not come to an agreement, and instead of continuing the peace talks, the Palestinians decided to rape and murder people instead.


dairyair said:
What was attempted 20, 30, 40 yrs ago, doesn't bear much weight today.
Click to expand...
Then there is no reason for Israel to try anymore. They will just take the West Bank for themselves.


dairyair said:

HIGHLIGHTS​

  • Israel’s “clear and repeated rejection” of the two-State solution “is unacceptable”, said UN Secretary-General António Guterres, adding that “this refusal, and the denial of the right to statehood to the Palestinian people, would indefinitely prolong a conflict that has become a major threat to global peace and security.”
  • Council members roundly called for the two-State solution to be realized and for an end to the war, with many calling for an immediate ceasefire to end the suffering of Palestinians and allow the aid they urgently need to be delivered unhindered
  • Many speakers from the wider UN membership echoed those calls
  • “Stop this massacre,” said the Deputy Prime Minister of Jordan
  • “We are running out of time. There are two choices: a spreading fire or a ceasefire,” said the Foreign Affairs Minister for the Observer State of Palestine
  • Israel’s Ambassador said if the Council continues to provide aid to Gaza without considering the Iranian threat, the world faces “a very dark future”
news.un.org

Rejection of two-State solution by Israeli leadership 'unacceptable', says Guterres

Top diplomats debated the deepening crisis in the Gaza Strip and the whole Middle East in the UN Security Council on Tuesday against the backdrop of Israel’s unrelenting military operation, mounting death toll and escalating global calls for an immediate ceasefire. The UN Secretary-General told...
news.un.org news.un.org
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There is a reason why neonazi organizations like the United Nations have no credibility on the issue.
 
Fledermaus said:
The question was....

How is granting statehood to a Hamas controlled region not supporting Hamas?
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Well, technically is. There are few Gaza Palestinians not in some way connected to Hamas. There were Hamas run trash collectors and medical providers. They were a major provider of jobs in an economy that was utterly broken due to Israel.

Why is that worse than supporting the IDF or the Israeli government -- who are demonstrably worse in every conceivable way.
 
Fledermaus said:
Does not Hamas govern in Gaza?

Does not PA govern in the West Bank?



Yes, and?
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No, I don't think they do. Do they provide services? Are they building roads? Do they control the monetary supply?
AFAIK, they are just a military unit taking control of things they can by force.

If they are all palestinian territory, why are there 2 different orgs in control?
NOTE: In control, doesn't necessarily mean a gov't. It seems Israel controls more than those other do.

And, Hamas is not the people's choice. That's what I've said several posts now. They are in whatever control they have by force.

Probably as a counter to Israel blocking food and aide into Gaza.
 
An
Toggle Almendro said:
When you deny Israel's past peace offers, that justifies Israel not trying anymore and just keeping the West Bank for themselves.



The two sides could not come to an agreement, and instead of continuing the peace talks, the Palestinians decided to rape and murder people instead.



Then there is no reason for Israel to try anymore. They will just take the West Bank for themselves.



There is a reason why neonazi organizations like the United Nations have no credibility on the issue.
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An offer made 20 yrs ago is not very relevant today.
And if the offer was good, it would have gained support and moved forward.

But As I've Shown you Now Several Times, Israel is not interested in any 2 state solution.
Even though years ago, some other leader may have considered it.

Rape and Murder? Is this Another fake claim you make without evidence.

You mean, Israel just wants to slowly kill off Palestinians? That's what is really going on. That's why they block food and aid.
 
dairyair said:
No, I don't think they do. Do they provide services? Are they building roads? Do they control the monetary supply?
AFAIK, they are just a military unit taking control of things they can by force.

If they are all palestinian territory, why are there 2 different orgs in control?
NOTE: In control, doesn't necessarily mean a gov't. It seems Israel controls more than those other do.

And, Hamas is not the people's choice. That's what I've said several posts now. They are in whatever control they have by force.

Probably as a counter to Israel blocking food and aide into Gaza.
Click to expand...

Services? Yes.

Building roads? Yes.
 
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