Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail[W:228]

[SayMyName]

Read more @: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail


She has apparently been released and told not to interfere in any way with her deputy clerks doing their job of issuing marriage licenses.

Hopefully her and her imaginary friend will get back to serving the people of this country and not bringing their aspirations of their own Honey Boo Boo reality show live from the County Clerks office.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

No, not at all. I see this was your problem from the beginning then. If it was, then there would have been no warning to stop discussing those other "examples" of selective enforcement.

I have received no warning, and selective enforcement is the heart of the matter.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I have received no warning, and selective enforcement is the heart of the matter.

It was a thread warning and I cannot write further detail.

And you are still wrong. You missed the point of this thread by a mile, it's about religious freedom and the govt's Constitutional ability to accommodate that...esp. your example had ZERO to do with religion and the First Amendment.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

It was a thread warning and I cannot write further detail.

And you are still wrong. You missed the point of this thread by a mile, it's about religious freedom and the govt's Constitutional ability to accommodate that...esp. your example had ZERO to do with religion and the First Amendment.

Thank you for a clear statement of your opinion. I disagree.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

She didn't change her mind, the law changed.

We've been over this many times.

She took the job in Jan 2015, and SCOTUS had already scheduled its decision for June. Unless completely incompetent as a civil service candidate, she would have been aware of this and known it was possible. She'd worked in that office for yrs.

However, like many people, she refused to believe it could happen and then was pissed off when she had to comply.

What's not true? The facts of the scheduling of the SSM decision?

The fact that she was already working in the clerk's office and as an applicant for her current position *should* have been aware of that upcoming decision or basically wouldnt be qualified for the position if that unaware of the parameters of the position?

That she was too stupid or bigoted to ever believe SSM could happen?

All seems pretty true and factual to me.

YMMV

And KY has had several state SSM challenges that came before the SCOTUS ruling. Someone else posted those...and no, I wont go look for them. Most others here have seen them even if you choose to deny it.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I don't care what you think, I care what Kim Davis swore when she accepted the position. She guaranteed that she would do the job impartially and without prejudice. She doesn't get to change her mind later. She is accountable to her oath. She has failed to be accountable to her oath. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I believe she swore to God too...so she's committing a major sin right there.

What a hypocrite, she should have resigned immediately when SCOTUS finalized the federal decision.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Impeachment isn't good enough for you. Perhaps waterboarding would make you happy.

The state legislature doesnt meet until Jan. Are you suggesting the govt would be correct in imposing on all those people who wish to marry BEFORE Jan have to wait, or even go elsewhere just to accomodate this woman? Who is clearly breaking her oath and also weilding govt power to forbid others to do so?

Even in the best scenario, that does not seem to meet the 'reasonable' standard. OTOH, it seems like the judge has been very reasonable...she was given options, she refused, so he removed her, effectively and legally creating her 'absence' from the office, in order to legally facilitate the clerks issuing the licenses. And then, because the immediate situation was remedied, he released, on a condition that apparently, her lawyers are convincing her to **** all over.

 

[year2late]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

*bolded for relevance

Which is why I think it should be obvious to the most casual observer that Ms. Davis actions are not about "religious freedom", as much as they are about "propagating my religious views" onto others.

She is attempting to "control others" in the guise of "her freedom".

I find it particularly hideous & bigoted!

I think you are likely right.

If it were simply about her own beliefs, she would allow her coworkers to issue the licenses or find an accommodation that allows the licenses to be legally distributed.

Any doubt she will look towards speaking engagements and book deals? Huckabee and Cruz have already embraced her.....

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Go back and find the Sharia answer. Went through that a few pages ago.

I am still not familiar with the government employees you're talking about. Could you be specific?

Yeah nice. The links have been posted here several times. You go ahead and look for them. LOL

We've all seen them!

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

She was sent to jail because that was believed by some to be the quickest way to get her out of the way.

Not exactly. She was removed so that *the government* could proceed with doing it's job, as tasked by the people. The govt is here to serve and also to protect our rights. It did this in order to protect the civil rights of any person in that jurisdiction that desired a license so they could marry and to serve the taxpayers that are paying for that service....and being turned away.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Ethics are subjective. She considers living her religious beliefs to be ethical. Personally I respect people who walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Using your govt appointed position to force your religious beliefs on others? She's a hypocrite for (at least) 2 reasons:

1. She took an oath that says she will not do that (she's upholding the US Const in oath as well)

2. Even God gave everyone one of us the choice to follow His Word. This woman has the arrogance to try and force His Word on others and to force her clerks to do the same.

In order to uphold her religious beliefs, she KNOWS it's illegal from her office. If she was truly doing this to uphold *her own* religious conscience, she'd have resigned and found some other way to "challenge the system" legally.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I don't know what the hell you're taking about. Someone conjoined the question of interracial marriage and gay marriage. Those two subjects are materially different from an ethical and religious standpoint. There is understandable religious dogma that opposes gay marriage. Don't ask me to be an expert on religion. I am the least religious person you will ever speak to. I don't know of any religious dogma which opposes interracial marriage.

Conjoining the two different subjects is a logical fallacy.

And yet they are the same legally when viewed from the religious freedom perspective and there were judgements following Loving vs Virginia to prove it.

I have posted a sampling of scriptures that were used by the religious that tried to protest against interracial marriage posted here (also many times but I have them in OneNote to easily cut and paste for you) and a trial judges' quote, also based on religion:

Daniel 2:43*- And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Numbers 12:1*- And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

Matthew 25:32*- And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats

Trial Judge*in Loving: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Everything you've said in this post is diametrically opposed to reality.

No, she had people out protesting to support her before she was jailed, so that's one where you are being dishonest. Is that all you've got left?

And she also asked you a valid question.....did you answer her? It was a 'realistic' question.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Prove your original statement. When she was released from jail in front of national television and with two presidential candidates and an expensive lawyer she might be getting some traction, but I may have something you lack. Common sense.

People posted pics in the threads leading up to this one, before she was jailed, that were discussing her.

People protesting, supporting her. Gee, we all saw them, I guess you'll just have to go look for them.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Don't suggest impeachment. Loons will come out of the woodwork disappointed that Davis is tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. Their arguments are full of hate and anger for people who don't believe as they do.

Most here would love to see that. What we find very unfair is that in that case, people that wanted to marry in her jurisidiction might have to wait until Jan at the earliest to get their marriage licenses.

Removing her from office cant happen fast enough for many many of us.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Gay groups don't care? There's no surprise there. thats the way bigots always are.
And not at all does an American look badly for requiring that government respect her religious beliefs.

How completely irrelevant is an assessment like that? As if there's no prior knowlege of this case at all.

It's not about disrespecting her religious beliefs, it's about her trying to force her religious beliefs on other people and denying them their civil rights AND forcing her clerks to do the same.

Edit: Ah, I see that post 1421 explained this in deeper detail for you.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

That's all fine and good and the wrong way around. Congress is not allowed to define jobs out of reach of the religious.

.

Please show why that is necessary? (Aside from the fact that no one is 'entitled' to a govt job or any other)

Millions of religious people work in govt jobs and *do their entire jobs.*

Police are govt employees. THey work on Sundays. If a Christian cop doesnt want to work on Sundays, he has to look for another job. There are plenty of Christian cops that will work on Sundays.

There are literally as many examples as there are govt jobs.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

We do live in an immediate gratification society don't we? What's more important to you? Rights or expedience?

The judge found a very reasonable way around this FOR HER and those that wish to marry in her jurisdiction.

And now that he's released her, she's already saying that she will try and prevent that very reasonable solution....to promote her own selfish interests. She can always resign and bring a court case and challenge it. But no...this plays much better in the media, she's got $ backing to do it, and she can (she believes) continue to force her religious beliefs on the people who are paying her salary...such as all the ones she already denied married licenses.

 

[matchlight]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

And yet they are the same legally when viewed from the religious freedom perspective and there were judgements following Loving vs Virginia to prove it.

I have posted a sampling of scriptures that were used by the religious that tried to protest against interracial marriage posted here (also many times but I have them in OneNote to easily cut and paste for you) and a trial judges' quote, also based on religion:

Yes, I've heard all that. That trial judge's quote is always good for a laugh. But the problem with the Virginia antimiscegenation statutes the Supreme Court held unconstitutional in Loving was not religious. It was rather that they punished certain acts purely because of the race of the actor. The Court also found that they originated as elements of slavery laws and were meant to perpetuate white supremacy. That made them exactly the kind of state action the Fourteenth Amendment was meant to prohibit, and that made the laws unconstitutional on both Fourteenth Amendment due process and equal protection grounds. Whatever religious motives there may have been in addition were irrelevant.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Well, let's flip that around....If Ms. Davis is obligated to issue a Marriage certificate to homosexual couples, then I expect to be issued my CCP (I already have on BTW) without so much as any friction....

WHy didnt you answer his question:

What if a county clerk, that issues many different types of licenses, converts to be a Quaker (my edit) and refuses to issue you your CCP?

 

[matchlight]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Please show why they that is necessary?

Millions of religious people work in govt jobs and *do their entire jobs.*

Police are govt employees. THey work on Sundays. If a Christian cop doesnt want to work on Sundays, he has to look for another job. There are plenty of Christian cops that will work on Sundays.

There are literally as many examples as there are govt jobs.

How does that square with Sherbert v. Verner? Adele Sherbert was fired for declining to work on Saturday, her Sabbath Day. When she then declined as a matter of faith to accept other jobs that also required her to work Saturdays, the state denied her application for unemployment benefits. The Supreme Court held that by conditioning the benefits on her agreement to work under conditions forbidden by her faith, the state violated her First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion. The state failed to show that it had a compelling interests in burdening Sherbert's right by its action. In the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, Congress restored this compelling interest standard, which the Court had abandoned in a 1990 decision that prompted the RFRA, and it made it even more demanding by making clear the government action had to be the least restrictive alternative available.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Wow! That's amazing! Way to go, totally dismissing the legal system of a religion (not your own, obviously). Whew hoo!

LMAO!

Yeah, just that entire countries and their legal systems are indeed run on exactly that legal=religious 'code.' :doh

This woman...this govt official...is breaking our legal code. And if she's not, then a govt official supporting Sharia law would not be either. Is that really so hard for you to understand? I gave examples...they were almost totally ignored, here's 2 that applied to Muslims:


--what happens if a county/state judge converts to Islam and refuses to award primary custody of the children in a divorce to to *any* mothers?

--what happens if the state director of motor vehicles converts to Islam and refuses to allow DMV employees to issue driver's licenses to women?


It doesnt matter if YOU believe their religious beliefs are legitimate....it matters if THEY believe it...and the courts still have to examine them with the same lack of bias.

I understand your point but I have to saw that women are treated as property in some of these countries, women were only allowed to drive a car a couple of years ago in Saudi Arabia, gays are killed by the government, girls are gang raped to punish the family, etc. There are some very real massive problems with Sharia.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

Yes, I've heard all that. That trial judge's quote is always good for a laugh. But the problem with the Virginia antimiscegenation statutes the Supreme Court held unconstitutional in Loving was not religious.

And yet, it was still challenged on a religious basis by a goodly part of the Southern population AND at least one judge tried to deny it based on that as well. And afterwards, when challenged similarly by govt appointees (as RogueNukee and others have linked cases) those challenges based on the 1A and religious freedom were denied.

Here's that "inspiring" quote from the judge, in case you missed it:

Trial Judge*in Loving: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

How does that square with Sherbert v. Verner? Adele Sherbert was fired for declining to work on Saturday, her Sabbath Day. When she then declined as a matter of faith to accept other jobs that also required her to work Saturdays, the state denied her application for unemployment benefits. The Supreme Court held that by conditioning the benefits on her agreement to work under conditions forbidden by her faith, the state violated her First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion. The state failed to show that it had a compelling interests in burdening Sherbert's right by its action. In the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, Congress restored this compelling interest standard, which the Court had abandoned in a 1990 decision that prompted the RFRA, and it made it even more demanding by making clear the government action had to be the least restrictive alternative available.

Got anything to show you actually understood what you wrote? How about seeing you actually explain something instead of copying and pasting. Then I'll answer. I've asked you to do so many times, you rarely, if ever accommodate. I dont want to waste my time.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Ordered Released From Jail

I understand your point but I have to saw that women are treated as property in some of these countries, women were only allowed to drive a car a couple of years ago in Saudi Arabia, gays are killed by the government, girls are gang raped to punish the family, etc. There are some very real massive problems with Sharia.

Did you think that I *supported* those actions by govt employees/appointees? I was comparing them to very similar to what Davis is attempting.