Kansas counties: Yet another reminder that mask mandates work

[Noodlegawd]

I posted a study from the Journal of American Medical Association, a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal. this was one of your typical "nuh uh" repsonses.


You claimed there was JH data that disproved a study from the Journal of American Medical Association, a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal. You never posted anything to back it up and then started to make knowingly false claims about the study such as "wah wah, cherry picking, it doesn't include Belguim, Spain, UK, France". And as is typical for you (posting a mish mosh of spin delusion and falsehoods) you now think I asked you " if the non-mandate counties "****ed up." I was the one mocking you for not being disgusted that republican propaganda is killing people and hurting the economy. I also mocked your efforts to deflect to California politicians. Tl, can you please explain why conservatives flail at the documented fact that wearing a mask helps prevent the spread of a deadly infectious disease, saves lives and helps the economy. Thanks in advance

All that is 100% fantasy horseshit. As for your question, I don't answer for Republicans. Can you explain why "California politicians" who represent your worldview don't follow their own rules they wish to impose on everyone else?

And in all that ad hom garbage, you didn't even try to respond to the substance of what I wrote, just like you failed to do last time. Isn't that precious?

 

[Vern]

All that is 100% fantasy horseshit. As for your question, I don't answer for Republicans. Can you explain why "California politicians" who represent your worldview don't follow their own rules they wish to impose on everyone else?

And in all that ad hom garbage, you didn't even try to respond to the substance of what I wrote, just like you failed to do last time. Isn't that precious?

First tl, you flailing and whining about a study from the Journal of American Medical Association, a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal with nothing but "nuh uh, I read something somewhere that said nuh uh" is not "100% fantasy horseshit". Its 100% documented. I posted the link. And you posting falsehoods about what countries were in the study from the Journal of American Medical Association, a respected peer-reviewed scientific journal is also 100% documented. Anyhoo, you want to focus on California politician's perceived hypocrisy instead of the great job they are doing containing the spread of Covid19. How obedient of you.

I know, lets focus on your flaming hypocrisy in this thread. You dont think it's right to be disgusted with trump and republicans pushing an agenda that is killing thousands of Americans and hurting the economy but are disgusted with perceived hypocrisy from california politicians who are doing a documented great job. Lets review your own words.

On the contrary, I'm able to disagree with people without becoming "quite disgusted." You should try it.

What I do find a bit more than "quite disgusting" is the California Hat Trick: Their Magesties Gavin, Dianne, and Nancy all insisting that everyone else wear a mask at all times and stay home (in some cases under threat of fines or arrest), while doing anything but that themselves when they think no one else is looking.

Yep, thats you posting you are in no way disgusted by trump mocking people for wearing masks and republicans fighting mandates across the country. Their actions have killed thousands of Americans and hurt the economy. A real American would be disgusted. But yet you are only obediently "disgusted" by perceived hypocrisy. Are you disgusted by your actual hypocrisy? I bet your answer is "nyet". Again, can you please explain why conservatives flail at the documented fact that wearing a mask helps prevent the spread of a deadly infectious disease, saves lives and helps the economy. Thanks in advance

 

[Noodlegawd]

I know, lets focus on your flaming hypocrisy in this thread. You dont think it's right to be disgusted with trump and republicans pushing an agenda that is killing thousands of Americans and hurting the economy but are disgusted with perceived hypocrisy from california politicians who are doing a documented great job. Lets review your own words.

Yep, thats you posting you are in no way disgusted by trump mocking people for wearing masks and republicans fighting mandates across the country. Their actions have killed thousands of Americans and hurt the economy. A real American would be disgusted. But yet you are only obediently "disgusted" by perceived hypocrisy. Are you disgusted by your actual hypocrisy? I bet your answer is "nyet". Again, can you please explain why conservatives flail at the documented fact that wearing a mask helps prevent the spread of a deadly infectious disease, saves lives and helps the economy. Thanks in advance

It's hard to imagine how you manage to pack so many falsehoods and misrepresentations into a few sentences. I won't bother to pick them apart or relitigate the stupid argument you think you were having with me two weeks ago, because you're not worth my time. Yes, I'm far more disgusted by "do as I say, not as I do" tyrants than I am by people who disagree with me on how to balance freedom vs. risk. If Gavin Newsom imposed a 2-month long 24/7 lockdown on 40 million Californians, all while vacationing in Oregon snorting coke of strippers' asses, you could still say he was doing "a great job" slowing the spread of Covid in CA. He'd still obviously be a massive hypocrite, and far more disgusting than a Republican who thinks people should be allowed to make some decisions for themselves even if there's more risk associated with it. As for Dianne and Nancy, they haven't "done a great job." They literally haven't done a thing, other than pretend to be royalty.

As for this thread, I'm not the one who touted an article about Kansas but left out highly-relevant information from that article. You did that.

 

[Vern]

It's hard to imagine how you manage to pack so many falsehoods and misrepresentations into a few sentences. I won't bother to pick them apart or relitigate the stupid argument you think you were having with me two weeks ago, because you're not worth my time.

Oh Tl, thanks for the chuckle. You don't "bother" to pick apart anything I post because you cant. I have no problem "bothering" to pick apart your lies and spin. and don't forget you're the one that had no problem with the OP. Now you do. I'm guessing your supervisor told you "nyet, have problem with OP". anyhoo, we can move past your latest hypocrisy and focus on this. California is doing a great job containing the spread of Covid19 and the data shows it. And I posted the link to prove my point (BE posted the proof too). That's something you never do.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I'm guessing your supervisor told you "nyet, have problem with OP".

Keyboard warrior uses party line to falsely accuse other people of using the party line.

Priceless.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Mask dont work

So explain the CDC conspiracy to convince people they should cover their noses and mouths in public. Who at the CDC benefits from convincing people to do that based on lies?

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Vern]

So explain the CDC conspiracy to convince people they should cover their noses and mouths in public. Who at the CDC benefits from convincing people to do that based on lies?

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

the CDC is in bed with Big Mask.

 

[Vern]

Keyboard warrior uses party line to falsely accuse other people of using the party line.

Priceless.

What a cowardly deflection. I'm guessing this is the lead up to you cutting and running. and even as you make plans to cut and run, you still cant tell the truth. I'll type this slowly for you Tl, I make clear straightforward points and back them up. You however do not to discuss any facts. You want to ignore the facts and obediently whine about California politicians. which one of those do you consider "using the party line"? No need to answer comrade.

so here's me posting clear straightforward points and backing them up. I can look at the CDC data and see California, one of the first states to be hit, is in the top 20% of states preventing the spread. 4 of the other top states are rural and one is Hawaii. I'm impressed by that. Its especially impressive when compared to the ruby read rural states of ND, SD, Iowa and Nebraska. they have a natural advantage in the fight against an infectious disease and a head start. ND and SD dont even have a million people yet they have the highest infection rates in the country. People are suffering and dying needlessy there. I'm disgusted by that. I'm also disgusted by trump and republicans discouraging people from wearing masks leading to the deaths of thousands of Americans. Only you and putin are not disgusted by that.

 

[RAMOSS]

Mask dont work

All evidence presented to you show that statement is false.

 

[Antiwar]

Not really, because I actually looked at the data.

But I'm sure that Nancy, Dianne, and Gavin ****ed up, by getting caught. I'm more confident than ever that we should never get rid of the electoral college. The last thing we need is to allow the millions of geniuses who would vote for these scumbags to have an impact on our national politics that is actually proportional to their numbers.

Thank you for sharing your feelings of superiority with regard to the unequal voting-power of the Electoral College. It's kind of refreshing when someone doesn't hide their motivations.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Thank you for sharing your feelings of superiority with regard to the unequal voting-power of the Electoral College. It's kind of refreshing when someone doesn't hide their motivations.

It's not my motivation, it was the motivation of the founders of our country. If you want more of your life to be controlled by people who are elected by majority popular vote, then you should be looking for less of it to be controlled by the Federal government, and more by the state governments. Then you can move to CA and truly bask in all the glory that is Gavin "French Laundry" Newsom.

 

[Antiwar]

It's not my motivation, it was the motivation of the founders of our country. If you want more of your life to be controlled by people who are elected by majority popular vote, then you should be looking for less of it to be controlled by the Federal government, and more by the state governments. Then you can move to CA and truly bask in all the glory that is Gavin "French Laundry" Newsom.

Your motivations are clearly shown in your comment that I quoted. Now you're attempting to edit that comment with this comment because the 20-minute editing period is over. You're trying to insert the "Founders" as evidence to legitimate the illegitimate principle that you believe gives your "side" extra political power because you falsely believe that extra power is justified by a notion of inferiority/superiority.

That illegitimate principle is: Unequal voting-power is a good thing.

You won't "win" a debate nor maintain power using illegitimate principles.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Your motivations are clearly shown in your comment that I quoted. Now you're attempting to edit that comment with this comment because the 20-minute editing period is over. You're trying to insert the "Founders" as evidence to legitimate the illegitimate principle that you believe gives your "side" extra political power because you falsely believe that extra power is justified by a notion of inferiority/superiority.

That illegitimate principle is: Unequal voting-power is a good thing.

You won't "win" a debate nor maintain power using illegitimate principles.

I wasn't editing anything. The "motivations" I expressed are exactly the motivations of the Founders that led to the system we have. The existence of different States within the United States should have meaning and they should have a significant degree of independence from each other. States with high populations should have limited influence over other states with lower populations. That's fully baked into multiple aspects of the architecture of our government, including the existence of the Senate, the Electoral College, and the fact that Supreme Court Justices are appointed by the President and approved by the Senate (and the House has basically nothing to do with it).

You can have all the "equal voting power" you want at the state level. "My side" wants your vote to have MORE power over YOUR life, by taking power away from the federal government and giving it to states.

 

[Moderate Right]

Trends in County-Level COVID-19 Incidence in Counties With ...

This report describes COVID-19 incidence in Kansas counties with and without mask mandates.

www.cdc.gov

We've had mask mandates in both California and Illinois since June/May. California daily case count in June:4000, today: 8000. Illinois daily case count in May:2500, today 6000. Yeah, mask mandates DON'T work. Why would a liberal such as yourself ignore these two huge liberal states and just post about little itty bitty conservative Kansas?

 

[Bassman]

California has mandates up the Ying-Yang, we ain’t doing so well. My county, San Diego, is having a huge increase in cases. As are many others. We just clamped down even further, banning indoor dining, and reducing ocupancies for many businesses.

New York is no better. Erie County is close to 10% of new cases now and is on the verge of full lockdown.

 

[Hamish Howl]

People are stupid, and will die needlessly.

This is all normal.

 

[Phys251]

We've had mask mandates in both California and Illinois since June/May. California daily case count in June:4000, today: 8000. Illinois daily case count in May:2500, today 6000. Yeah, mask mandates DON'T work.

Moderate Right thinks he possesses the basic statistical skills to make a simple argument here. He should learn what per capita means, but those terms aren't 'MURICAN!

 

[Phys251]

Your motivations are clearly shown in your comment that I quoted. Now you're attempting to edit that comment with this comment because the 20-minute editing period is over. You're trying to insert the "Founders" as evidence to legitimate the illegitimate principle that you believe gives your "side" extra political power because you falsely believe that extra power is justified by a notion of inferiority/superiority.

That illegitimate principle is: Unequal voting-power is a good thing.

You won't "win" a debate nor maintain power using illegitimate principles.

He's arguing from founderism, which is an ideology. The founders gave us a framework, not an immovable object, and it is up to us to decide where to take it.

 

[Antiwar]

I wasn't editing anything. The "motivations" I expressed are exactly the motivations of the Founders that led to the system we have.

The founders railed against California and sarcastically called Californians geniuses?

The existence of different States within the United States should have meaning and they should have a significant degree of independence from each other.

They do. They have their federal representation and their state governments.

States with high populations should have limited influence over other states with lower populations.

You have it backward. Lower population states shouldn't have extra influence over higher population states, as they currently do, and as the states with higher slave populations did when the Three-fifths Compromise was used to originally apportion the Electoral College and Congress.

That's fully baked into multiple aspects of the architecture of our government, including the existence of the Senate, the Electoral College, and the fact that Supreme Court Justices are appointed by the President and approved by the Senate (and the House has basically nothing to do with it).

Supreme Court Justice appointments have nothing to do with voting-power or representation.

You can have all the "equal voting power" you want at the state level.

No, that's the issue. The Electoral College makes every voter's voting-power different, depending on what state they vote in.

"My side" wants your vote to have MORE power over YOUR life, by taking power away from the federal government and giving it to states.

That'd be fine if and when there are good reasons. There are good reasons for federal government power, state government power, and people (of all states) power.

Make your case as to what powers you're talking about.

 

[Antiwar]

He's arguing from founderism, which is an ideology. The founders gave us a framework, not an immovable object, and it is up to us to decide where to take it.

Thanks. I understand and already understood that.

 

[Antiwar]

We've had mask mandates in both California and Illinois since June/May. California daily case count in June:4000, today: 8000. Illinois daily case count in May:2500, today 6000. Yeah, mask mandates DON'T work. Why would a liberal such as yourself ignore these two huge liberal states and just post about little itty bitty conservative Kansas?

Masks don't work as a singular strategy. The non-therapeutic strategies are a combination of:
1. Social distancing
2. Masks when you can't maintain social distancing
3. Washing hands often, disinfecting, etc
4. Testing out the wazoo ...
5. ... so infected persons can be isolated/quarantined

We implemented 1, 2, and 3 to "flatten the curve" until they learned more about the novel (new) virus. If #4 had been done ASAP (many months ago), we probably could have eased way back on the first three: the infected people would have been out of public interactions. Also, we never did a hard enough shutdown, and lots of people ignored the guidelines.

We should have:
A. Done as hard of a shutdown as possible, at the beginning
B. Gone harder on 1, 2, and 3 (above)
C. Figured out rapid testing
D. Tested out the wazoo, for "free," and as a requirement for everybody, very frequently, many times

That would've likely made it a short shutdown, saved health and lives, done less damage to people's personal economies, and the overall economy. Investing in testing and distribution of testing were key. We still don't have that! We don't know who's infected and spreading it because a big percentage of infected people don't know they're infected because they never feel sick (asymptomatic).

But, it's a pandemic.

 

[Noodlegawd]

The founders railed against California and sarcastically called Californians geniuses?


They do. They have their federal representation and their state governments.


You have it backward. Lower population states shouldn't have extra influence over higher population states, as they currently do, and as the states with higher slave populations did when the Three-fifths Compromise was used to originally apportion the Electoral College and Congress.


Supreme Court Justice appointments have nothing to do with voting-power or representation.


No, that's the issue. The Electoral College makes every voter's voting-power different, depending on what state they vote in.


That'd be fine if and when there are good reasons. There are good reasons for federal government power, state government power, and people (of all states) power.

Make your case as to what powers you're talking about.

I'm not going to respond to all this, because you're obviously missing the point. But let me ask you this: Do you think we should get rid of the Senate too? That's FAR less representative than the Electoral College.

 

[Antiwar]

I'm not going to respond to all this, because you're obviously missing the point. But let me ask you this: Do you think we should get rid of the Senate too? That's FAR less representative than the Electoral College.

I'll wait to reply further, after your editing time is over. You should consider that question, and consider editing it.

 

[Antiwar]

I'm not going to respond to all this, because you're obviously missing the point.

You don't have to respond to anything. But I suspect you don't want to respond to this part of my comment, so you're saying I am missing the point:

]Lower population states shouldn't have extra influence over higher population states, as they currently do, and as the states with higher slave populations did when the Three-fifths Compromise was used to originally apportion the Electoral College and Congress.

----

But let me ask you this: Do you think we should get rid of the Senate too? That's FAR less representative than the Electoral College.

Why would you phrase it "Get rid of the Senate"?

The Senate and the Electoral College are vastly different entities. Ending the unequal voting-power of the Electoral College or abolishing it completely is not comparable to abolishing the Senate.

 

[Noodlegawd]

You don't have to respond to anything. But I suspect you don't want to respond to this part of my comment, so you're saying I am missing the point:

Lower population states have less impact in the EC than higher population states. That difference is mitigated by the way electors are allocated. That is by design, for all the reasons I stated.

Why would you phrase it "Get rid of the Senate"?

The Senate and the Electoral College are vastly different entities. Ending the unequal voting-power of the Electoral College or abolishing it completely is not comparable to abolishing the Senate.

Sure it is, only far less significant. Both are examples of how voters in high population states have less power than voters in low population states. Electors are selected based on the number of Representatives and Senators each state has. So it's still related to population. The number of Senators is the same for each state whether they have 750,000 people or 40 million. And no new laws can be passed, nor federal judges appointed, without the Senate's approval.