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Just One Question:

Imudman

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Can a person be -

1. FOR individual liberties; and
2. AGAINST unrestricted access to abortion; and
3. UNDECIDED about the current war on terrorism and Iraq; and

STILL be considered a liberal?
 

Pacridge

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Imudman said:
Can a person be -

1. FOR individual liberties; and
2. AGAINST unrestricted access to abortion; and
3. UNDECIDED about the current war on terrorism and Iraq; and

STILL be considered a liberal?
I think the spectrum varies as much as the population. So yes, people can consider them self to be whatever they want. I think you could be against the current war in Iraq and for unrestricted access to abortion and consider yourself conservative.
 

Imudman

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Pacridge said:
I think the spectrum varies as much as the population. So yes, people can consider them self to be whatever they want. I think you could be against the current war in Iraq and for unrestricted access to abortion and consider yourself conservative.
That settles it then. After some of the conservatives on this board have embarrassed themselves so badly recently, I've decided to re-align myself with the liberals. I'm serious about this. I've come to realize that the liberals here that I respect outnumber the ones that I don't. Maybe it's my age, but I remember when being liberal was a good thing...
 

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hmm. I usually find it convenient to consider myself a conservative. I support limited government, individual liberties. I support America's war efforts, but I don't believe it is neccessary to agree with the administration 100% of the time.

Maybe its just that the "university" liberals, the ones that I know, are just so far out there that its hard to associate with them. Whereas I am generally pro-choice, they believe we must pay for other people's abortions. While there is principled opposition to the war, I also see people who want to apply "tolorance" to the bastardized religion of the Islamic Fanatics. On the liberal side, I also see individuals who support socialist policies, and there's also Blind Bush Bashing. Then, there's Michael Moore.

Don't get me wrong, there are many great liberals out there. I just find it convenient to call myself a conservative because if I call myself a liberal, people are more likely to get the wrong idea.

So, it depends, I guess. How do you think that conservatives have embarrassed themselves on this board? I hope you're not talking about me.
 

Imudman

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Connecticutter said:
So, it depends, I guess. How do you think that conservatives have embarrassed themselves on this board? I hope you're not talking about me.
No, not you. I don't want to name names, but there's a couple on here that are real... well, let's just say they've suffered from rectal cranium inversions.

For instance, I can agree with many conservative positions, but I can't agree with the idea that liberalism is a mental disorder. That just tends to dehumanize people who disagree with the current conservative talking points.

I believe in personal liberty, less government intrusion into my life. It seems to me it's the conservatives and the socialists who share the same goal - to get into my life and my wallet in order to control other people...
 

Imudman

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galenrox said:
you can't be that old, but yes, being a liberal does not neccisarily mean that you agree with all liberal stand points, just more than the conservatives. Like fiscally I'm extremely conservative, I believe in a small federal government, state's rights, gun rights, and no censorship (which goes against both sides), but I consider myself a liberal.
Actually, it's due to my conversations with you that I realized it's possible for a person to hold liberal beliefs, yet still be opposed to things like socialism. I want to thank you for that...
 

Connecticutter

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Imudman said:
For instance, I can agree with many conservative positions, but I can't agree with the idea that liberalism is a mental disorder.
Yeah, I didn't even bother to read the liberalism is a mental disorder thread. That idea isn't original - it actually comes from talk-radio host Michael Savage. He repeats this slogan on most of his shows. This is the same guy who had a show on MSNBC and got fired because he told a gay caller "I hope you get AIDS and die."

Although, this reminds me of a study by sociologists at UC Berkeley I read about. They did a "study" and concluded that conservates tend to have "imbalanced emotions." They're saying the same thing, just using liberal language.

Anyway, the liberals I know in the Northeast and at my university would never accept me as one of them. The conservatives on the other hand are generally accepting of many different viewpoints and debate, and they are mostly libertarian-leaning. Now, this might not be your experience, this is just me at a liberal university in the northeast.

The conservatives which you speak of (the ones that are becoming like socialists) are really non-conservatives posing as conservatives to get elected. Or perhaps they get elected and change their mind. I don't know what happens. Bush isn't even the main culprit - there's congress, too. I don't even know what right and left mean anymore.
 

Imudman

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Connecticutter said:
...The conservatives which you speak of (the ones that are becoming like socialists) are really non-conservatives posing as conservatives to get elected. Or perhaps they get elected and change their mind. I don't know what happens. Bush isn't even the main culprit - there's congress, too. I don't even know what right and left mean anymore.
That's why I've been trying to understand the contemporary meaning of the word liberal. It's been twisted into meaning something it shouldn't. Same with conservative. All the talk about being left and right of center is just a bunch of hooey, unless you're trying to persuade someone to vote your way. But liberal has meaning - empowering people with rights due to them.

King George was a conservative, and our founders were liberals. Today's authentic conservatives are really very liberal in their philosophy, according to the classical definition of the words...
 

LaMidRighter

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Imudman said:
For instance, I can agree with many conservative positions, but I can't agree with the idea that liberalism is a mental disorder.
Neither can I, both sides have very good points and both have their members who are so far gone that they forget that theirs is not the only opinion that counts.
That just tends to dehumanize people who disagree with the current conservative talking points.
Nothing to argue there, of course, any closed mind is a bad thing.

I believe in personal liberty, less government intrusion into my life. It seems to me it's the conservatives and the socialists who share the same goal - to get into my life and my wallet in order to control other people...
I consider myself a true conservative, I don't care what you do as long as it hurts no one else, same as the way you spend your money, do as you wish, and honestly, the only way to offend me is to speak of more regulation and intrusion. My own held beliefs:
1) anti-Federalist, states should be left alone to their own design and Federal should only control that which the founders considered to be their authority.
2) Constructionist- rights exist naturally and the only way to limit it is to prove extreme circumstances which would cause an immediate, provable threat to others.
 

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galenrox said:
you can't be that old, but yes, being a liberal does not neccisarily mean that you agree with all liberal stand points, just more than the conservatives. Like fiscally I'm extremely conservative, I believe in a small federal government, state's rights, gun rights, and no censorship (which goes against both sides), but I consider myself a liberal.
People call themselves liberal and conservative based on there veiw in general more then individual points, or atleast thats how i feel. I consider myself nuetral becuase i dont realy like contradiction which is all you get with parties, and thats to be expected becuase there are many people in a party. I think its realy whether you agree with the parties veiws in general. i dont realy dislike any people in parties as long as they follow the party cause they believe in its veiws not its stance in society. Like liberals are cool and conservatives are rich.
 

Pacridge

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Imudman said:
That settles it then. After some of the conservatives on this board have embarrassed themselves so badly recently, I've decided to re-align myself with the liberals. I'm serious about this. I've come to realize that the liberals here that I respect outnumber the ones that I don't. Maybe it's my age, but I remember when being liberal was a good thing...
Welcome to my nightmare...I think you're gonna like it.
 

TJS0110

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Ya i used to consider myself a republican but then i saw all the contradictions in the republican party and in the democratic party so i went nuetral but now i desided that i might be a libertarian not sure though
 

Pacridge

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TJS0110 said:
Ya i used to consider myself a republican but then i saw all the contradictions in the republican party and in the democratic party so i went nuetral but now i desided that i might be a libertarian not sure though

The think the Libertarians have a lot going for them. Wish some of our smaller parties had more power. Course then I think about groups like the American Nazi party and I'm glad they don't.
 

TJS0110

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Pacridge said:
The think the Libertarians have a lot going for them. Wish some of our smaller parties had more power. Course then I think about groups like the American Nazi party and I'm glad they don't.

Do u mean the libertarians have alot of power?
 

TJS0110

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Its kind of funny that we realy only have two choices for president, democrat or republican. You can vote but you wont win.
 

TJS0110

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O, ya I think they have good ideas. I still dont know enough about them to call my self libertarian, but once i learn more ill deside
 

Imudman

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Pacridge said:
Welcome to my nightmare...I think you're gonna like it.
Nightmare? Like on Elm Street? Freddy's no match for common sense...:lol:
 

Imudman

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I used to be a registered Libertarian, until I realized their vision for America is different than mine. I'm a Christian, and for me the Libertarian Party just isn't the way to go. But they're sure a dang sight better than either one of the other two...
 

Imudman

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I know what you mean. For me, I think poverty, illness, and other social problems should be in your face. By that I mean people who have it better than others need to see others in need. That's part of my problem with a government safety net. When people are being helped by a government program, most other people never see them or know what's happening to those less fortunate.

Hey, I'd like to keep this going, but something just came up. See ya later...! ;)
 

TJS0110

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galenrox said:
yeah, back in high school I used to volunteer for the libertarian party to convince little fringe sects to vote libertarian, such as the objectivists. I did it for only a short time, because I realized that a large sect of the libertarian party, mostly those in control, are completely insane. I support a libertarian belief system, but I also believe in certain aspects of governmental intervention in areas that we should be good enough people to take care of on our own, but don't, and to have the government interfere until we become capable of doing these things on our own, and have their stated goals on social welfare to be temporary until the private sector has enough public backing in donations and volunteering to deal with the impoverished, and I mean all of them, in the country.
I agree, but i dont want people to become to reliant on the government. I also dont want those who are at the point were they cant take care of themselves to just be left out in the cold.
 
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