Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes ear

[JANFU]

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post

RED DEER, Alta. — A judge who came under fire from Alberta’s appeal court for ruling a rape complainant in a sexual assault case consented after tiring from fighting off her attacker has decided to take early retirement.

The Alberta Court of Appeal criticized Court of Queen’s Bench Justice Kirk Sisson in 2014 for acquitting a suspect in a 2013 sexual assault case.

Court heard the woman told the suspect on numerous occasions that she did not want to engage in any sexual activity.

He persisted despite her protests. After struggling and resisting his advances for 20 minutes, she realized he was not going to take no for an answer.

“She testified that she gave in because of his persistence, and to get it over with. In other words, she finally decided that she had enough and gave into him,” wrote Sisson in his ruling.

“Consequently, the Crown has failed to prove an essential element of the offence beyond a reasonable doubt, that’s lack of consent.”

When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

 

[joG]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

Aussänge is still acting as though no weren't no.

 

[Mac77]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

The judge was wrong

The weaker sex deserves extra protection

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Aussänge is still acting as though no weren't no.

Assange is accused of not using a condom on the second consenting copulation during an all night romp.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

I guess that's kind of like getting a royal asswhipping for making boneheaded decisions from a seat of power. At some point in the asswhipping when you don't fight back it is because you are consenting to getting your ass handed to you. :roll:

It seems as if everyday for most women there is a fight just to be viewed as equal let alone the physical and sexual attacks.

 

[joG]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Assange is accused of not using a condom on the second consenting copulation during an all night romp.

In multiple caseseach being a rape under Swedish law. Like sleeping with girls too young is considered rape in America. It is a matter of local law. Some will go to jail and others will ruin as long as they live. Remember Polanski?

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

I remember another news story in which a woman consented to rape because she was wearing jeans at the time of the rape, the logic being that a woman can't remove jeans unless she wanted it.

Gold star logic, right there.

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Holy ****.
The only thing that seems to be wrong here (because of a lack of information) is Canadian law.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Holy ****.
The only thing that seems to be wrong here (because of a lack of information) is Canadian law.

No, the law is fine, the judge erred. From the article:

But the appeal court set aside Sisson’s ruling and substituted the acquittal with a conviction saying he “erred in his narrow definition of the charge of sexual assault” and by “inferring consent from submission.”

“The trial judge considered only the sexual intercourse that took place after these protests. This is an error. Sexual assault is not confined to intercourse,” wrote the three-judge panel.

“The Criminal Code makes clear that acquiescence or submission is not consent. Moreover, the law requires that reasonable steps be taken to ensure consent after the rejection of sexual advances.”

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

No, the law is fine, the judge erred. From the article:

No. Simply no.

1. There is a lack of information here.
The report makes it sound like all that happened was he was persistent in his advances and she then consented.
2. A law that allows for an acquittal to be overturned and then substituted with a conviction, is not a "fine" law.
3. A law that says consent is not consent, is not a "fine" law.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

No. Simply no.

1. There is a lack of information here.
The report makes it sound like all that happened was he was persistent in his advances and she then consented.
2. A law that allows for an acquittal to be overturned and then substituted with a conviction, is not a "fine" law.
3. A law that says consent is not consent, is not a "fine" law.

She did not 'consent'. She was under great duress.

 

[JANFU]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Holy ****.
The only thing that seems to be wrong here (because of a lack of information) is Canadian law.

The law was not the issue, the idiot who was the Judge is.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

The law was not the issue, the idiot who was the Judge was.

And it serves him right. Using the law to enforce your ideology on someone is a morally and ethically-depraved act of the highest calibre.

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

To both of you.

I already pointed out this report is lacking in detail, yet neither of you bothered to find anything more about the case to lend credence to the arguments you wish to make.
So we only have what is reported to go on.

She did not 'consent'. She was under great duress.

Yes, it is clear she consented. And no, it doesn't say she was under great duress.
She agreed to have sex, that is consent.

---

The law was not the issue, the idiot who was the Judge is.

iLOL This is a debate forum. The law is open for debate.
And no, the Judge didn't get to his position in life by being an idiot. It is apparently the law that is screwed up as she did consent.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

While I agree that no is no, I have also been around long enough to know that there are two sides to every story.

One of the problems with reporting such things in the media is the way they are headlined. The male in this case is described right off the bat as an "attacker". Without much more supporting that in the article than a mention of "After struggling and resisting his advances for 20 minutes, she realized he was not going to take no for an answer."

That does not tell any real story, certainly not sufficient to make a reliable judgement. I would have to know the particulars of what was meant by "struggling". What was the situation? Were they in a motel/hotel room? His or hers, who invited who? What happened before that led up to them being in the situation? Was kissing/making out a part of this 20 minute struggle? Wouldn't it be an integral part of the puzzle to know how many "bases" the guy was allowed to "steal" and how that progression occurred? Was each advance initially countered but then given in upon to a point where the female was no longer willing to continue down that path but her resistance then give, resistance then give gave a message that all you have to do is push a bit more each time? And if that were so, and lets say they were kissing the whole while, wasn't a pattern being established? Wouldn't that a description of what ultimately happened, as well, in the finality?

Persistence by a male beyond the initial no, despite some women's claims to the contrary, is often almost expected. A game to be played. Some may well deny it, but it that denial valid? Women are sexual creatures as well, but they are often, though that has changed, not the pursuer but the pursued. Males are often expected to "work" for it, to show more than to just ask a cursory question such as, "Hey, you wanna ____?".

So, some women here will be honest with that. I can remember two women I dated who asked me later why I had not just raped them. First of all, force in a situation like that is not even close to a turn on in my book... and as a person who respects others when they say something I expect that they actually mean it. I was young and wished now that I had questioned them further as now I have only supposition as to why they said that. The one and I had an extended intimate relationship, it was after one of these episodes that she asked me the question.

The other, a very attractive and voluptuous woman stopped abruptly my somewhat inebriated advances after a night out on the town as we are the balcony walkway in front of her condo down near Ft Lauderdale. I completely misinterpreted her as saying NO while she was actually only meaning no, not out here where her neighbors might see [even though it was after 2 am ]. I lived up in West Palm and said, okay, kissed her goodnight and got in my car for the long tipsy trip home. Yes I know, don't drink and drive, I agree. Later she came up to visit me at my place and it was then she mentioned this mind blower.


I am not wired, don't even think that way. For one, myself I have NEVER had a desire to be incarcerated even one minute, much less risking years, so rape does not appear as one of the alternatives, even when quite sauced.

So that it is better understood my position on rape, I was on a jury that convicted an 18 year old for statutory rape [ she was 15, he knew, well knew as was proven, that she was under aged. When she broke it off he got irrationally upset, went to her house, was aggressive about seeing her, and when he was not allowed started yelling, telling her parents, among other things, that he'd ****ed their daughter, etc in front of many witnesses... sex with a minor like that was against the law]. I am also a believer that serial and violent rapists should either be put to death and/or be emasculated.

So I hold no truck at all with rapists...

At the same time, its a very subjective and touchy subject. But male views need be out there, as well as women's true feelings, not just the hard core "just jail the guy" types. This is a topic that actually needs some conscious thought by both sides, not just a rash emotional response. And its not a problem nearing extinction, its one that needs to be discussed forthrightly and without automatic vilification.

 

[apdst]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

Most men do understand that no means no. Why are you trying to portray all men as rapists?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

And it serves him right. Using the law to enforce your ideology on someone is a morally and ethically-depraved act of the highest calibre.

What if judge was enforcing the law which happened to mirror his own ideology? Would that still be "morally and ethically-depraved"? What if he, the judge, was following the letter of the law and it is specific about consent? She seems to have clearly given in, as stated in the article, as she gave consent.

We would have to know a lot more than what is in the article to ascertain the amount of actual duress was involved and then make a decision.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

To both of you.

I already pointed out this report is lacking in detail, yet neither of you bothered to find anything more about the case to lend credence to the arguments you wish to make.
So we only have what is reported to go on.



Yes, it is clear she consented. And no, it doesn't say she was under great duress.
She agreed to have sex, that is consent.

---

iLOL This is a debate forum. The law is open for debate.
And no, the Judge didn't get to his position in life by being an idiot. It is apparently the law that is screwed up as she did consent.

From the link in the OP:

Court heard the woman told the suspect on numerous occasions that she did not want to engage in any sexual activity.

He persisted despite her protests. After struggling and resisting his advances for 20 minutes, she realized he was not going to take no for an answer.

“She testified that she gave in because of his persistence, and to get it over with. In other words, she finally decided that she had enough and gave into him,” wrote Sisson in his ruling.

I stand by my statement.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

From the link in the OP:


I stand by my statement.

Based on ONLY that, it certainly sounds like a large amount of reasonable doubt is present.

More details would be necessary to establish that anything wrong occurred at all.

I assume there are some... ?

 

[Taylor]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Yes, it is clear she consented. And no, it doesn't say she was under great duress.
She agreed to have sex, that is consent.

Much like those two Turkish soldiers consented to be burned alive last week because they weren't actively struggling when the match was finally lit. The were in effect saying, please torture and kill me! :roll:

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Much like those two Turkish soldiers consented to be burned alive last week because they weren't actively struggling when the match was finally lit. The were in effect saying, please torture and kill me!

Only in your screwed up thoughts.

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

From the link in the OP:



I stand by my statement.

Your statement is ridiculous because you are making assumptions.


The information you provided shows she consented, the number of rebuffs to his advances is irrelevant to that.

 

[Peter King]

Re: Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes

Judge who ruled woman consented to rape after tiring from fighting attacker takes early retirement | National Post


When will men understand, No is No.
You would think a Judge would know this.
Sadly, he retires with a 142K pension.
Should have been sanctioned at the least.
Cannot post here what I think of this Neanderthal thinking.

I am really happy that such a ruling could never happen in my country (at least not for the reason that a judge was of the opinion that being too tired to resist anymore is consenting). Such a ruling could not happen in the Netherlands (because it is decided by 3 judges and not 1) and even if such a ridiculous ruling would be handed down it would be appealed in 2 seconds flat (after which the guilty person would still end up jailed for his crime of rape).