MasterLiberty
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2014
- Messages
- 307
- Reaction score
- 100
- Location
- Chicago, Suburbs
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Right
So this isnt a serious proposal, right?
For one thing, you dont seem to realize that gay people reproduce 'naturally' all the time...men sire babies, women have babies. Unless you suggest NOW, that mixed straight families also have to settle for civil unions? You know, where they have adopted kids (none of their DNA!!!!), step-kids (only one's DNA), used artificial means to get pregnant, etc?
And I thought that marriage (it's legal...that's the entire discussion) was a strictly religious convention and to be used only for the religious. You wrote that.
If that's the case, let anyone who wants to marry do so...in their church, in the Eyes of God..and not worry about the legal aspect. Dont need any license. Why do they care? It's about love and babies and God....not tax benefits. Right?
There is a "slippery slope" LAW IS by its very nature a SERIES of slippery slopes as all past law, and future law is based on PRECEDENT assuming you are a liberal this should be a very foreign idea to you. It is that past laws and present laws effect FUTURE laws in the same way that past decisions by SCOTUS are typically cited in current decisions by SCOTUS. And to single out the word "Bestiality" out of the other examples such as "polygamy" and the whole foot mannequin thing... anyways I find it rather disturbing that you try to discredit my opinion with by saying that no "educated or honest person" could take it seriously. No my good sir just no Progressive LibDems will take me seriously (Not that I care what the LibDems think).
Equal treatment under different names is still equal treatment. If we are going to argue for semantics purposes and semantics solely than it is not an arguement worth having. IF the LGBT wishes to throw my proposal away due to "semantics" then so be it it simply prooves how rigged, furvent, and blind progressive libdems of the LGBT truely are. Hopefully more people in the LGBT will realize that conservatives are simply concerned about the precedent this sets for future lawmakers and future activist groups.
My arguement changed when I was informed that we are debating LEGAL aspects of marraige not RELIGIOUS aspects of marraige. And would it really take the air out of my tires if gay marraige becomes federally recognized? NO in fact I will be happy for the gay community, I am simply being the devil's advocate in this debate and citing possible consequences to a change in law that will have a large effect on culture in general.
I always find it something of a statistical anomaly how those most opposed to same sex marriage always manage to have the largest number of gay friends, or at least have come across a larger number of gay people in their lives than anyone else has while living in Portland or San Francisco.
Your argument is only based on semantics! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Seriously.
And again....you display ignorance of the law. Animals cannot consent, mannequins cannot consent...they cannot be a party to legal contracts.
As for polygamy, who cares? I think it's a bad idea for most people (mainly women) but consenting adults can make their own choices. As long as they receive no more tax breaks or benefits than couples, makes no difference to me. I'm not judging people by my own beliefs and trying to force them on others.
Very well constructed counter arguement and I see your point and by seeing it I grant those points to you as valid and true. I suppose this is a situation I should do a bit more soul searching on in an attempt to further evolve and develop a more informed opinion on. Thank you Lursa.
Interesting. We may disagree but I admire someone who gives another a 2nd chance and at least tries to understand the discussion even if not agreeing.
I am a rather sarcastic poster...didnt realize you were new.
(flattery will get you everywhere! :doh)
Sorry had to sleep. Anyways I'm awake and ready for some action let me first start by saying I have many homosexual friends half of whom have made the very same arguement that I made to you and YES my friends happen to be CONSERVATIVE HOMOSEXUALS. Something that must be very foreign and quite oxymoronical to those of you on the left. However they make the case that the core of the LGBT wishes to do as much as possible to destroy conventional views and family lifestyles (keep in mind those conservatives IN the LGBT get shunned by the largely liberal group). One arguement that I have been presented with by people who are gay themselves is that this opens a very slippery slope. If we let gays marry then what? Polygamy? Beastiality? What about the man who is quite partial to that foot mannequin?? When you open something like marraige up to redefinition you open the flood gates for other objectors outside of the norm.
Finally someone says something that makes sense diggin your post Card thank you for making that point.
I suppose you are right that some laws DO have merit those laws which are specifically designed to PROTECT the rights of individuals are ones I'd say have the most merits. Laws that restrict the rights of citizenry are laws that are ones to be more vigilant against. I mean I suppose at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is people being happy. Mostly I am concerned about some of my less open and homophobic friends further to the right of myself I worry that something like this could cause more harm than good with enough outrage.
1.)There is a "slippery slope" LAW IS by its very nature a SERIES of slippery slopes as all past law, and future law is based on PRECEDENT
2.) assuming you are a liberal this should be a very foreign idea to you.
3.)It is that past laws and present laws effect FUTURE laws in the same way that past decisions by SCOTUS are typically cited in current decisions by SCOTUS.
4.) And to single out the word "Bestiality" out of the other examples such as "polygamy" and the whole foot mannequin thing...
5.)anyways I find it rather disturbing that you try to discredit my opinion with by saying that no "educated or honest person" could take it seriously.
6.)No my good sir just no Progressive LibDems will take me seriously (Not that I care what the LibDems think).
7.)Equal treatment under different names is still equal treatment.
8.) If we are going to argue for semantics purposes and semantics solely than it is not an arguement worth having.
9.) IF the LGBT wishes to throw my proposal away due to "semantics" then so be it it simply prooves how rigged, furvent, and blind progressive libdems of the LGBT truely are.
10.) Hopefully more people in the LGBT will realize that conservatives are simply concerned about the precedent this sets for future lawmakers and future activist groups.
1.) im so happy you mentioned PRECEDENCE and bolded it like it supports your failed and factually wrong claim when its exactly what proves your statement wrong..
if you think your factually wrong statement is true simply provide the precedent that can be used that is solely related to SSM to support beaslitalty.
2.) you assume wrong and this deflection further exposes how theres no accurate, logical, factual or legality based support for your claim
3.) see #1 this is what makes your statement wrong it doesnt support it
4.) use any one you want, it doesnt matter they will all fail based on the examples you provided. There is ZERO precedence that can be taken solely from Equal rights/SSM that lends itself to polgamy, beasitly or manniguins. Try it will be fun.
5.) again its not me that discredited the opinions and factually false statments you made its facts, laws rights, reality, legality and precedence that all do that. They all disagree with your false claim.
6.) another failed deflection, my statement stands nobody educated, honest and objective will ever take the comparison of equal rights to beastality seriously etc because it would be mentally retarded to actually thing those comparisons are parallel when they are not analogous and they are inane.
7.) factually false has history, law and rights prove and has was proven in post #293 which you totally dodged because it destroyed your failed statement.
8.) i agree your argument is worthless since facts, history, law, rights, precedence all easily defeat it
9.)the LBGT and all americans that support equal rights laugh and through it away because it is factually not equal which as already been proven and is further proven by the questions you dodge.
10.) please dont group your views with all conservatives millions of them disagree with you and support equal rights.
facts win again
again let us know when you have any facts that support your failed claims.
J if you followed along a little more you would realize that I have redacted myself as I now believe I don't know enough on the issue to have a truely valid opinion, as such I am withdrawing from this discussion except for maybe posing questions now and again to better understand the issue. I am sorry if what I said struck a nerve or offended you
i really don't believe a word of what he said there
Sorry had to sleep. Anyways I'm awake and ready for some action let me first start by saying I have many homosexual friends half of whom have made the very same arguement that I made to you and YES my friends happen to be CONSERVATIVE HOMOSEXUALS. Something that must be very foreign and quite oxymoronical to those of you on the left. However they make the case that the core of the LGBT wishes to do as much as possible to destroy conventional views and family lifestyles (keep in mind those conservatives IN the LGBT get shunned by the largely liberal group). One arguement that I have been presented with by people who are gay themselves is that this opens a very slippery slope. If we let gays marry then what? Polygamy? Beastiality? What about the man who is quite partial to that foot mannequin?? When you open something like marraige up to redefinition you open the flood gates for other objectors outside of the norm.
It is quite fine I am a rather sarcastic poster as well (I love satire...). While I see myself as a Libertarian-Right for the moment I am always open to evolving on issues which I don't feel I know enough about or haven't debated on enough to form an opinion. I look at debate as a dialogue and a chance to evolve and expose myself to contrarian ideas and beliefs. The whole point of a debate is to bring two opposing sides together, not to drive them apart. If the opposite were true debate would have no purpose now would it? ^_^
Hopefully more people in the LGBT will realize that conservatives are simply concerned about the precedent this sets for future lawmakers and future activist groups.
Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban
The key part:
Use of the term gender instead of orientation could be important for future rulings. Have not read the ruling itself yet so take the reporting for what it is worth.
These people aren't debating, they are trying to personally put you down. Don't take them seriously.
After a century of conservatives trying to deprive us of liberty and basic dignity, think i'll pass on trusting them ever.
So this isnt a serious proposal, right?
For one thing, you dont seem to realize that gay people reproduce 'naturally' all the time...men sire babies, women have babies. Unless you suggest NOW, that mixed straight families also have to settle for civil unions? You know, where they have adopted kids (none of their DNA!!!!), step-kids (only one's DNA), used artificial means to get pregnant, etc?
And I thought that marriage (it's legal...that's the entire discussion) was a strictly religious convention and to be used only for the religious. You wrote that.
If that's the case, let anyone who wants to marry do so...in their church, in the Eyes of God..and not worry about the legal aspect. Dont need any license. Why do they care? It's about love and babies and God....not tax benefits. Right?
You also demonstrate a vast ignorance of legal paperwork..where all letterhead, departments, titles, signage etc etc etc have to have the correct titles? And there will be a different bureaus overseeing them....otherwise, who will be checking the genders on all the paperwork? LMAO! $$$$$$$$ for the taxpayers.
It's utterly ridiculous to create another designation for no other reason than self-righteous indignation.
And let us not forget that this would cause a serious issue when it comes to transsexuals because many change sex after they legally marry a person of the opposite sex. So then, more money has to be spent converting their marriage to a union.
I think it's funny you think that anyone who'd object to SSM would give a damn about transssexuals.
Not being dismissive, it just made me laugh.
You're a fundamentalist if its not possible to reason with you and there's no room for someone with opposing beliefs to coexist with you. After all, you fully believe that you've got the word of God on your side. No way any of us can compete with that. There is nothing we could say or do that could convince you any other point of view could hold legitimacy.
You have not presented a valid argument. You refer people to Aquinas Five and then when those are refuted (as has been in the past, I will not bother to go into it, look it up yourself, since I've already done this with you at least once before), you simply repeat and try to say that no refutation of your argument has been presented when it isn't even your argument to begin with, but rather an argument presented by a Priest centuries ago.
Again, you have provided no valid argument that your God (not just the Christian God, but your exact God, the God that is exactly how you see Him) exists. You really haven't provided a valid argument for the existence of the Christian God. Even if we were to accept Aquinas Five, it could easily work for the existence of any God, not just the Christian God.
Oh, and if you are going to try to "point me out" to people, you might want to get a couple of things right, such as my screenname and my gender, both of which you screwed up.
Ack! You're right. This is what I was supposed to quote:
I bolded the "true" whackiness and the "true" reason we NEED to keep state and church separate.
My Lord! That is the same as Muslims with blind extremism.
So you're argument is that it's possible hat he survived the crucifixion, survived wing buried for several days, and then pretended to have died and then just disappeared? Really?
People have done it before and been hailed as miracles.
Many people have been buried alive and dug up again after awakening and being heard. And Jesus was oiled and wrapped and stored...not buried
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