Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

dontworrybehappy · Jun 22, 2010

What do you know about inspections being mostly paperwork? Post proof or i'm calling you out on it and will quickly label you a liar. You know nothing about inspections.

The moratorium is gone, just like democratic majorities in the house and senate come november.

Drill baby drill!!

Hoplite · Jun 22, 2010

dontworrybehappy said:
The moratorium is gone, just like democratic majorities in the house and senate come november.

Duh. It always happens. The non-presidential party ALWAYS loses seats in the first house and senate elections after a presidential election.

apdst · Jun 22, 2010

hazlnut said:
I agree, the moratorium felt like overkill, even for only 6 months.

I guess with all the corruption and ineptitude in the MMS, they wanted a complete overall of the checks and balances before letting the drilling continue. If another rig ran into problems, it would be Obama's Katrina.

Get MMS in line, get the new regulators in place, and let the safe rigs go back to work.

That's the part ya'll aren't understanding. All the safe rigs are going to be working in Brazil and Africa by the time the buereaucratic bull**** is waded through.

BmanMcfly · Jun 22, 2010

'The Rig's on Fire! I Told You This Was Gonna Happen!' - National - The Atlantic

The sailor, who Buzbee refuses to name for fear of costing him his job, was on the ship's bridge when Deepwater Horizon installation manager Jimmy Harrell, a top employee of rig owner Transocean, was speaking with someone in Houston via satellite phone. Buzbee told Mother Jones that, according to this witness account, Harrell was screaming, "Are you ****ing happy? Are you ****ing happy? The rig's on fire! I told you this was gonna happen."

"I remember the company man saying this is how it's going to be," Brown told the panel. As Harrell was leaving the meeting, according to Brown, "He pretty much grumbled, 'I guess that's what we have those pincers for,'" referring to the blowout preventer on the sea floor that is supposed to be the last resort to prevent a leak in the event of an emergency. The blowout preventer failed following the explosion on the rig, causing the massive spill. (Transocean's chief electronics technician, Mike Williams, also recalled the argument but named a different BP "company man," BP's top official on the rig, Donald Vidrine).

Other rig workers have also claimed that they were pressured by BP and their supervisors to cut corners. Transocean roustabout Truitt Crawford told the Coast Guard that he overheard senior management saying that BP was "taking shortcuts" by replacing drilling mud in the well with saltwater, which would have provided less weight to contain the well's surging pressure. Transocean's Williams told 60 Minutes that a supervisor had dismissed evidence that the well's blowout preventer had been damaged. And workers with Halliburton, the well's cementing contractor, had complained that BP's use of cement "was against our best practices" and told the oil company that it would likely have "a SEVERE gas flow problem" unless the well's casings were centered more carefully.

Just a bit of an update... it looks like they should be taking BP's execs on criminal negligence charges at the least. Just like Enron, place the charges and the rats will start coming to the surface trying to be the first one to cut a deal.

j-mac · Jun 23, 2010

apdst said:
That's the part ya'll aren't understanding. All the safe rigs are going to be working in Brazil and Africa by the time the buereaucratic bull**** is waded through.

Understand it? Hell, they are banking on it!

The thing that should be driven home to these libs with their dishonest way of getting what they want in terms of green energy, is just who they will hurt the most getting there.

j-mac

WhyteRash · Jun 23, 2010

j-mac said:
Understand it? Hell, they are banking on it!

The thing that should be driven home to these libs with their dishonest way of getting what they want in terms of green energy, is just who they will hurt the most getting there.

j-mac

= pot calling kettle black..

hazlnut · Jun 23, 2010

dontworrybehappy said:
What do you know about inspections being mostly paperwork? Post proof or i'm calling you out on it and will quickly label you a liar. You know nothing about inspections.

The moratorium is gone, just like democratic majorities in the house and senate come november.

Drill baby drill!!

The only thing for sure is that the Libertarian party won't have a majority anywhere...:roll::roll:

Zyphlin · Jun 23, 2010

danarhea said:
This is extremely misleading. We have been doing shallow water drilling in the Gulf for decades, but deep water drilling is pretty new, as it was not long ago that we acquired the technology and methods to try it this deep. You can't put shallow water drilling and deep water drilling in the same category. Since deep water drilling is new, the likelihood of another disaster is orders of magnitude higher than with shallow drilling.

Then here's a wild idea....

Lift the regulations that are keeping new shallow water drilling operations from occuring and have the U.S. government offer leases in shallow water instead of only offering deep water leases thus creating a market where the only option for Oil Companies is either to go out of the country, close up shop, or drill in the more dangerous and risky deep water.

This seems to be standard government tactics.

Government: "Give loans to people who are high risk and may be not payt it off!".
A few years passes and the likely scenario that kept people from doing the above previously occurs
Government: "Grrr! How dare you banks. You gave bad loans to people that caused an economic crisis. We're punishing you and buying you out!"

Government: "Stop drilling in shallow water, we're only going to offer leases to deep water drilling"
A few years passes and the likely scenario that kept people from doing the above occurs
Government: "Grrr! Didn't you know Deep Water was dangerous, what were you thinking?! We're stopping all drilling now".

What next, shall the government start a program that gives a bunch of children guns and then when a few child shootings occur go "OMG! We need to take guns away from everyone, see!"

jambalaya · Jun 23, 2010

danarhea said:
This is extremely misleading. We have been doing shallow water drilling in the Gulf for decades, but deep water drilling is pretty new, as it was not long ago that we acquired the technology and methods to try it this deep. You can't put shallow water drilling and deep water drilling in the same category. Since deep water drilling is new, the likelihood of another disaster is orders of magnitude higher than with shallow drilling.

Then open up the waters closer to shore for drilling so we don't have to have so many deep water sites. I would say it is true that the risk is higher but this isn't the first deep water site in the world. This disaster should only make deep water drilling safer because everyone is on alert.

j-mac · Jun 23, 2010

WhyteRash said:
= pot calling kettle black..

The only kettle I am dealing with is the one brewing my coffee before I take off.

j-mac

danarhea · Jun 23, 2010

jambalaya said:
Then open up the waters closer to shore for drilling so we don't have to have so many deep water sites. I would say it is true that the risk is higher but this isn't the first deep water site in the world. This disaster should only make deep water drilling safer because everyone is on alert.

Actually, there are already more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, so looks to me like it has been opened up pretty good. On another note, want to know how much hypocritical BS there is in all this rubbish about Louisiana losing its economy? Of the more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, only 36 of them are deep water exploration wells that the moratorium would affect. This is more about Republicans, along with the special interests that have bought them, giving Obama the middle finger for the sake of giving Obama the middle finger. And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.

NolaMan · Jun 23, 2010

danarhea said:
Actually, there are already more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, so looks to me like it has been opened up pretty good. On another note, want to know how much hypocritical BS there is in all this rubbish about Louisiana losing its economy? Of the more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, only 36 of them are deep water exploration wells that the moratorium would affect. This is more about Republicans, along with the special interests that have bought them, giving Obama the middle finger for the sake of giving Obama the middle finger. And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.

From the Louisiana Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association:

Suspension of operations means roughly 33 floating drilling rigs – typically leased for hundreds of thousands of dollars per day – will be idled for six months or longer.
$250,000 to $500,000 per day, per rig – results in roughly $8,250,000 to $16,500,000 per day in costs for idle rigs;

Secondary impacts include:
• Supply boats – 2 boats per rig with day rates of $15,000/day per boat - $30,000/day for 33 rigs – nearly $1 million/day
• Impacts to other supplies and related support services (i.e., welders, divers, caterers, transportation, etc.)

Jobs –
Each drilling platform averages 90 to 140 employees at any one time (2 shifts per day), and 180 to 280 for 2 2-week shifts
Each E&P job supports 4 other positions
Therefore, 800 to 1400 jobs per idle rig platform are at risk
Wages for those jobs average $1,804/weekly; potential for lost wages is huge, over $5 to $10 million for 1 month – per platform.
Wages lost could be over $165 to $330 million/month for all 33 platforms

Secondary impacts: Many offshore workers live in Louisiana. The state is going to see a decrease in income taxes and sales taxes that would normally be paid by those employees. (The state does not collect a sales tax on oilfield supplies and equipment used offshore.)

That is a pretty substantial economic impact... while you are right it would probably not destroy the economy, it would have a large impact.

As for the judge, it has been discussed elsewhere about his supposed "conflict of interest" or in reality, the lack thereof. Might be overturned on appeal, but the reason will have nothing to do with the judge.

Glinda · Jun 23, 2010

dontworrybehappy said:
Yes, it's true. Every rig has small spills and flare ups. I will repeat, inspections prior to the explosion indicate no issues of concern.

That's most likely because the MMS was the most corrupt agency out there. However, just because the MMS wasn't doing its job properly, doesn't mean there weren't "issues of concern" prior to the oil rig explosion and subsequent underwater gusher.

Damning Evidence from BP Rig Employee

Transocean employee Mike Williams makes some damning allegations during the 60 Minutes interview.

The videos can be accessed from Blowout: The Deepwater Horizon Disaster - 60 Minutes - CBS News.

The most damning is an accident that happened four weeks before the fatal explosion.

The rig’s most vital piece of safety equipment was damaged. The rig has a blowout preventer (BOP) down near the seabed. It’s used to seal the well shut in order to test the integrity of the well. In case of a blowout, it’s the crew’s only hope.

A key component of the BOP was damaged accidentally when a crew member accidentally nudged the joystick while the BOP was shut, applying hundreds of thousands of pounds of force and destroying the seal of the BOP.

When a crew member reported seeing large pieces of rubber in the drilling fluid, his report was ignored. “It’s no big deal,” said the drilling supervisor. But the incident destroyed the integrity of the BOP.

Another problem Williams describes is how one of the control pods lost some of its functions weeks before.

Williams also testifies about how work was continually being speeded up on the rig because drilling costs a million dollars a day. When one hole had to be abandoned, the pressure was ratchetted up.

CBS ads the allegation that Haliburton’s concrete oil plugs failed in the face of an inadequate well-closing procedure that was compromised in terms of safety to expedite drilling.\

“Men lost their lives,” Williams concludes. “All the things they told us would never happen, happened.”

dontworrybehappy said:
I never once saw any one complaining about the MMS utilizing their limited resources to watch out for problematic rigs before this explosion.

You don't have any clue about the history of the MMS, do you?

In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS employees had taken drugs and had sex with energy company representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays amid "a culture of ethical failure", according to the investigation. The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere for much of the Bush administration’s watch."

A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.[33] Staffers also used government computers to view pornography.[34] In 2009 the regional supervisor of the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year's probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from an offshore drilling contractor. "This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry," Salazar said.

The Project On Government Oversight (POGO) alleges that MMS has suffered from a systemic revolving door problem between the Department of Interior and the oil and gas industries. For example, thirteen months after departing as MMS director, Bush appointee Randall Luthi became president of the National Oceans Industries Association (NOIA) whose mission is to "to secure reliable access and a favorable regulatory and economic environment for the companies that develop the nation's valuable offshore energy resources in an environmentally responsible manner." Luthi succeeded Tom Fry, who was MMS director under the Clinton administration. Luthi and Fry represented precisely the industries their agency was tasked with being a watchdog over. Lower level administrators influencing MMS have also gone on to work for the companies they once regulated: In addition, Jimmy Mayberry served as Special Assistant to the Associate Director of Minerals Revenue Management (MRM), managed by MMS, from 2000 to January 2003. After he left, he created an energy consulting company that was awarded an MMS contract via a rigged bid. He was convicted along with a former MMS coworker Milton Dial who also came to work at the company. Both were found guilty of felony violation of conflict of interest law.

danarhea · Jun 23, 2010

NolaMan said:
From the Louisiana Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association:

That is a pretty substantial economic impact... while you are right it would probably not destroy the economy, it would have a large impact.

As for the judge, it has been discussed elsewhere about his supposed "conflict of interest" or in reality, the lack thereof. Might be overturned on appeal, but the reason will have nothing to do with the judge.

While it might have an impact, that impact would be negligable, compared to that of another blowout and spill. Let's face it. We have no idea if any of these other 33 rigs are going by "the BP book" too, because MMS personel were replaced with oil company shills, who refused to regulate deepwater drilling. Let's fix the obvious problems first, THEN we can start drilling again, when we know that it is reasonably safe to do so.

NolaMan · Jun 23, 2010

danarhea said:
While it might have an impact, that impact would be negligable, compared to that of another blowout and spill. Let's face it. We have no idea if any of these other 33 rigs are going by "the BP book" too, because MMS personel were replaced with oil company shills, who refused to regulate deepwater drilling. Let's fix the obvious problems first, THEN we can start drilling again, when we know that it is reasonably safe to do so.

You are ignoring that every one of those rigs has been reinspected since the BP blowout by the Department of the Interior, and they have all passed the safety inspections.

NolaMan · Jun 23, 2010

NolaMan said:
You are ignoring that every one of those rigs has been reinspected since the BP blowout by the Department of the Interior, and they have all passed the safety inspections.

And also, just to point out, if "drilling safety" was really the concern here, why does the moratorium ignore the 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells and only impact the 33 exploratory ones? If safety was the issue, wouldn't all the rigs be shut down in the name of "safety"?

dontworrybehappy · Jun 23, 2010

Glinda said:
That's most likely because the MMS was the most corrupt agency out there. However, just because the MMS wasn't doing its job properly, doesn't mean there weren't "issues of concern" prior to the oil rig explosion and subsequent underwater gusher.

You don't have any clue about the history of the MMS, do you?

No Glinda, I have NO IDEA the history of the MMS. I mean, I've only had it as part of my life since I was born! *rolling eyes* My father has worked for it for 40 years, no, I have no clue.

The truth is, you posting that, shows YOU know nothing about the MMS. The scandals were in the accounting department thousands of miles away in Colorado. These scandals were NOT with the inspectors on the Gulf Coast. My dad, working for the MMS at the time, only learned about them through the media. He did not know a single person in that department, he doesn't deal with them. That's like saying because I was mistreated by a local cop, all local cops EVERYWHERE are crooked. Uh, no.

Sorry boo, I forgot more about the MMS then you will ever know.

danarhea · Jun 24, 2010

NolaMan said:
And also, just to point out, if "drilling safety" was really the concern here, why does the moratorium ignore the 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells and only impact the 33 exploratory ones? If safety was the issue, wouldn't all the rigs be shut down in the name of "safety"?

Because the exploratory ones are all deep water wells, and the ones being ignored are shallow water wells. There is a huge difference in technology required between deep water wells and shallow water wells. I have stated this before, but it seems that this piece of information is being ignored. But go ahead and keep lumping the two different kinds of wells into the same cubbyhole, and facts be damned. It is still misleading and dishonest.

Glinda · Jun 24, 2010

dontworrybehappy said:
No Glinda, I have NO IDEA the history of the MMS. I mean, I've only had it as part of my life since I was born! *rolling eyes* My father has worked for it for 40 years, no, I have no clue.

The truth is, you posting that, shows YOU know nothing about the MMS. The scandals were in the accounting department thousands of miles away in Colorado. These scandals were NOT with the inspectors on the Gulf Coast. My dad, working for the MMS at the time, only learned about them through the media. He did not know a single person in that department, he doesn't deal with them. That's like saying because I was mistreated by a local cop, all local cops EVERYWHERE are crooked. Uh, no.

Sorry boo, I forgot more about the MMS then you will ever know.

Evidently not. :doh

A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies. Staffers also used government computers to view pornography. In 2009 the regional supervisor of the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year's probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from an offshore drilling contractor. "This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry," Salazar said

You know where the Gulf region is, right?

NolaMan · Jun 24, 2010

danarhea said:
Because the exploratory ones are all deep water wells, and the ones being ignored are shallow water wells. There is a huge difference in technology required between deep water wells and shallow water wells. I have stated this before, but it seems that this piece of information is being ignored. But go ahead and keep lumping the two different kinds of wells into the same cubbyhole, and facts be damned. It is still misleading and dishonest.

I agree that there is a difference in technology, however from the LOGA report, it said

The Presidential Order does not affect the 4,515 shallow-water wells, and it does not affect 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells.

Now, in terms of rigs, there are more limits in place, but if safety in deepwater wells is the issue, why did it overlook 591 already producing ones?

drz-400 · Jun 24, 2010

NolaMan said:
I agree that there is a difference in technology, however from the LOGA report, it said

Now, in terms of rigs, there are more limits in place, but if safety in deepwater wells is the issue, why did it overlook 591 already producing ones?

Those 591 are deepwater wells, they are done drilling. I think this only applies to wells being drilled that are in over 500 ft of water.

Gill · Jun 25, 2010

danarhea said:
And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.

Not true... left wingers are making this outdated claim to discredit the judge and his ruling. The judge is now getting death threats. In fact, the judge sold all of his stock in any of these companies in 2008.

Much of the sensational reporting on Feldman’s investments was based on outdated information. The Judge was blasted for owning stock in Transocean, Ltd and Halliburton, two of the major companies involved in the Deepwater Horizon disaster. Feldman owned those stocks in 2008; however, he sold those shares long before issuing his ruling this week. In fact, this updated information will be released in the next report on his stock holdings.

If Feldman held financial interests in any of companies involved in the lawsuit or the Deepwater Horizon rig, he would not have been allowed the take the case. The 5th District Court uses a sophisticated computer system to check whether judges have a conflict of interest in any legal proceeding. This system automatically determines whether a judge needs to be recused from a particular case. In this lawsuit, Feldman was allowed to take the case because he did not own any stock related to the parties involved.

Judge Faces Death Threats After BP Gulf Oil Drilling Moratorium Ruling

j-mac · Jun 25, 2010

danarhea said:
Actually, there are already more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, so looks to me like it has been opened up pretty good. On another note, want to know how much hypocritical BS there is in all this rubbish about Louisiana losing its economy? Of the more than 3,600 wells in the Gulf, only 36 of them are deep water exploration wells that the moratorium would affect. This is more about Republicans, along with the special interests that have bought them, giving Obama the middle finger for the sake of giving Obama the middle finger. And, BTW, the judge who issued the ruling has stock in the very company who built the Deepwater Horizon well, and owns a lot of stock in oil companies. Repeat after me - Conflict of interest. If that judge had ethics, he would have recused himself from the case, since his own financial interests are directly tied to it.

I believe that this will be overturned on appeal.

Wow! Just Wow! Dan, I knew that on some things I disagreed with you but I could never put my finger on it. This posting, and indeed your posting in this thread highlights it rather well.

I never took you for a "screw America" kind of guy, I will rethink that now.

Look, you are so concerned about perceived conflicts of interest, then address this one for us will you?

WASHINGTON – The panel appointed by President Barack Obama to investigate the Gulf of Mexico oil spill is short on technical expertise but long on talking publicly about "America's addiction to oil." One member has blogged about it regularly.

Only one of the seven commissioners, the dean of Harvard's engineering and applied sciences school, has a prominent engineering background — but it's in optics and physics. Another is an environmental scientist with expertise in coastal areas and the after-effects of oil spills. Both are praised by other scientists.

The five other commissioners are experts in policy and management.
The White House said the commission will focus on the government's "too cozy" relationship with the oil industry. A presidential spokesman said panel members will "consult the best minds and subject matter experts" as they do their work.

The commission has yet to meet, yet some panel members had made their views known.
Environmental activist Frances Beinecke on May 27 blogged: "We can blame BP for the disaster and we should. We can blame lack of adequate government oversight for the disaster and we should. But in the end, we also must place the blame where it originated: America's addiction to oil." And on June 3, May 27, May 22, May 18, May 4, she called for bans on drilling offshore and the Arctic.

"Even as questions persist, there is one thing I know for certain: the Gulf oil spill isn't just an accident. It's the result of a failed energy policy," Beinecke wrote on May 20.

Obama spill panel big on policy, not engineering - Yahoo! News

Hmmm, so lets see, your panties are in a wad over some holdings a Judge had two years ago, meanwhile the President is assembling people hostile to the oil industry as a matter of course today, and no outrage from you on that front....Telling my left wing friend.

j-mac

American · Jun 25, 2010

j-mac said:
Wow! Just Wow! Dan, I knew that on some things I disagreed with you but I could never put my finger on it. This posting, and indeed your posting in this thread highlights it rather well.

I never took you for a "screw America" kind of guy, I will rethink that now.

Look, you are so concerned about perceived conflicts of interest, then address this one for us will you?

Hmmm, so lets see, your panties are in a wad over some holdings a Judge had two years ago, meanwhile the President is assembling people hostile to the oil industry as a matter of course today, and no outrage from you on that front....Telling my left wing friend.

j-mac

Listen to Obama speak on the topic of oil drilling.

Hoplite · Jul 1, 2010

j-mac said:
Wow! Just Wow! Dan, I knew that on some things I disagreed with you but I could never put my finger on it. This posting, and indeed your posting in this thread highlights it rather well.

I never took you for a "screw America" kind of guy, I will rethink that now.

Well...is it true that an extremely limited number of wells would be effected by the moratorium?

Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

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