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Jon Stewart benefited by 829% ‘overvalue’ of his NYC home even as he labels Trump’s civil case ‘not victimless’

Callen said:
Show me where it states that Stewart misrepresented the value of his property? It was tax assessed for X and he sold it for Y. Where did he purfusully misrepresent the attributes and value of his for lone purposes?
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Exactly. And he didn't do it for decades with multiple properties.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The judge started with the premise that there was (must have been?) actual fraud, yet never named who the victims of the fraud were.
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New York State can bring these charges against anyone it discovers having committed fraud even if the victim is not the one making the case.
 
jmotivator said:
Well, no. The case against Trump in his overvaluation of is properties. The Stewart example shows why the tax assessment should NEVER be used to determine the market value of a home, and the bank loan cares about market value, not tax assessment.

I mean this new idiotic path you are going down would be the kind of thing you might expect from someone seeking to undervalue their property for the purpose of taxes, but the assertion in the Trump case is that he overvalued his home, and the tax assessor would be the one who establishes the property dimensions for the property they are assessing.
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No, what Stewart shows once a property sells the value for taxes should be adjusted. tRump didn't sell the property- he played fast and loose with the values, up for loans down for taxes. Fraud.... ✌️
 
Gimmesometruth said:
So much so....that the solution to the housing/banking collapse of 07-08....was to let them burn.
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Why is Trix spending time on these forums anyway? As an expert who knows everything there is to know about real estate, surely she saw the 07-08 collapse coming - a la The Big Short - made a huge pile of money and is living on some tropical island. She must have way more interesting things to do, funded by her massive real estate derived fortune.
 
Taylor said:
That's the point. Now explain that to Judge Engoron.
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Hey big T, have you read the judgment? Engoron goes through the law, how it was applied, and how the disgorgement amount was arrived at. It's all in the first 10 pages or so, though @Visbek has summarized it in another thread.
 
LostInSeattle said:
Why is Trix spending time on these forums anyway? As an expert who knows everything there is to know about real estate, surely she saw the 07-08 collapse coming - a la The Big Short - made a huge pile of money and is living on some tropical island. She must have way more interesting things to do, funded by her massive real estate derived fortune.
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I did see the collapse coming, and took care to pay attention to what was happening. I made a lot of money from selling three properties on top of the market before the crash.
 
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trixare4kids said:
I did see the collapse coming, and took care to pay attention to what was happening. I made a lot of money from selling three properties on top of the market before the crash.
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Why didn't you short the banks and CDOs? You missed an historic opportunity to make a gadjillion dollars, and you settled for selling three properties? Weak sauce.
 
LostInSeattle said:
Why didn't you short the banks and CDOs? You missed an historic opportunity to make a gadjillion dollars, and you settled for selling three properties? Weak sauce.
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How many properties did you sell on top?
 
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trixare4kids said:
I did see the collapse coming, and took care to pay attention to what was happening. I made a lot of money from selling three properties on top of the market before the crash.
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Huh..
I searched our old haunt, '06-'10, for "sold" and "house" and only got one hit.
"sold" "property" had one result.
We all had some big discussions on The Crash over there, and I would have remembered you being so....prescient.

I don't.
 
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Napoleon said:
“Fraud” has a loose meaning these days. Is it “fraud” to represent that a property is worth far in excess of its appraised value while only paying taxes on the lower appraised amount? If so, Stewart is just as guilty.
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This is foolish. A property you own has more than a financial value. You may not want to sell it because it has sentimental value. Someone who really wants it can make you an offer way better than the financial worth because he/she wants it for some emotional, sentimental, or symbolic value, so you decide to sell. That is not fraud and it's not misrepresentation.
 
trixare4kids said:
How many properties did you sell on top?
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None. I did buy a property in 2009 after the market tanked. But I am not really wealthy enough to invest in the Seattle area market. It's not only extremely expensive, but very hard to find rental property with revenues that cover the nut, and cap rates are relatively low. On the flip side, demand for rentals is high. If you already have money, it's a decent investment area, but not a good place to get started. Sadly.
 
daeler said:
Did you not understand what Trump went to court for? Or do you just not have any clue what the difference is between a loan using a property as collateral and selling a property?

I can give you some examples if you need it.
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He clearly defrauded the city of New York out of millions in property taxes
 
choiceone said:
This is foolish. A property you own has more than a financial value. You may not want to sell it because it has sentimental value. Someone who really wants it can make you an offer way better than the financial worth because he/she wants it for some emotional, sentimental, or symbolic value, so you decide to sell. That is not fraud and it's not misrepresentation.
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There an easy formula in New York law

Trump having an opinion on property value: fraud

Anyone who supports the democrats having an opinion on property value: not fraud
 
LostInSeattle said:
When does fraud not have a victim?
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If the bank that loaned Trump the money decided to not lend it to him even though he lied through his teeth on the application the bank would not be a victim but Trump would have still committed fraud.

Some people would argue that even in that case the people of NY are victims because they deserve to have a business environment where people don't lie to each other.
 
Taylor said:
When you overpay for a house. Just because you spend $500,000 on a house doesn't mean it's worth $500,000 to anyone else.

Or, maybe someone wants to sell you their home well below market because you offer to pay in cash - doesn't mean the house suddenly becomes worth less.
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Assessors - in part - look at recent sales when determining the value of a home. If someone over/underpaid by 10% that will have some impact on the value of similar homes.

Towns, at least mine anyway, use sale price for setting property taxes. So if you underpay your property taxes will reflect that.

So while you or I may not want to pay 500K for a house that doesn't it isn't worth it
 
EMNofSeattle said:
When the claimed victim doesn’t believe they’re a victim and got paid back
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Except when the bank left millions on the table because they charged a lesser interest rate based on fraudulent statements.
 
Gaius46 said:
Except when the bank left millions on the table because they charged a lesser interest rate based on fraudulent statements.
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Disagreements on asset valuation are not fraud.

If the properties weren’t worth that much money then the lenders could’ve counter offered.
 
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Gaius46 said:
If the bank that loaned Trump the money decided to not lend it to him even though he lied through his teeth on the application the bank would not be a victim but Trump would have still committed fraud.

Some people would argue that even in that case the people of NY are victims because they deserve to have a business environment where people don't lie to each other.
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It’s not a lie to disagree on the value of property.
 
LostInSeattle said:
Hey big T, have you read the judgment? Engoron goes through the law, how it was applied, and how the disgorgement amount was arrived at. It's all in the first 10 pages or so, though @Visbek has summarized it in another thread.
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Yes, I quoted some of it earlier.
 
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Napoleon said:
See post 131. According to Judge Engoron, the baseline is tax appraised value and any representation of value above 10% of that and certainly above 50% of that is materially false and fraudulent. We’ve been saying all along how profoundly stupid that is, but you guys are just now catching up.
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Did PT Barnum commit fraud in the movie The Greatest Showman by offering the deeds to a fleet as collateral? If you believe he did, tell me all the ways he did in detail and why.

Trump wasn't selling his property. He was offering his property to someone else as insurance on a loan. This is very different than actually selling your property for more than what it's worth. And Trump didn't just oversell his property by merely lying about it's estimated value, but also lied about the sizes of some of his properties as well.
 
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