It's time to change shoes on Ukraine! (Like Elise Stefanik)

[j brown's body]

The US has been the greatest friend global fascism has ever had, from protecting its adherents, as with Unit 731, to enabling its growth, as in Latin America, to actively funding and aiding it, as in Italy, Greece and Portugal. There is no way you can pretend to care about “fascism” and support the US as it has been since, like, 1948, and continues to be to this day.

The US has destroyed more democracies than Russia and it isn’t even close in comparison. Someone who “loves democracy” should have known that.

And given how massively the US relied on mercenaries—-err, “contractors” in both Iraq and Afghanistan, the sputtering about the Russians doing the same with North Koreans is as spectacularly hypocritical as usual from American apologists.

This is certainly a roundabout way of expressing support for Europe's greatest mass murderer since Hitler.

 

[j brown's body]

You pay a lot of attentiont to Trump's speeches and tweets?

Have you ever seen him express support for Ukraine?

 

[Corbell]

Have you ever seen him express support for Ukraine?

Couldn't really say. I wouldn't have paid much attention.

I do expect that in the negoatiations, that Trump will be fairl supportive of Ukraine and their interests.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Korea war, the Vietnam War, and the Gulf War, demonstrate the the US does have an issue with nations invading other sovereign nations.

Now sure you can argue that the US should not have cared. But to say they didn't care, is revisionist bullshit.

The US knew full well the dictator in charge of South Korea we supported was going to invade North the first chance he got. That was the whole reason the US was slow building up the South Korean military with heavy weapons. The only reason the US pretended to be outraged was that the North Koreans threw the first punch instead.

The Vietnam War was not caused by the North invading the South. The US got involved because an American warship started fighting ghosts, and because the US was as arrogant as ever, sure it could easily defeat the “commies”. Fifteen years later it was such a fiasco the US was squawking it’s support for the Khmer Rouge as Hanoi chased them out of Cambodia.

The Gulf War was, like, the definition of shortsighted US policy coming back to bite it in the US. The US enthusiastically supported Saddam in going after Iran, aiding him with everything up to and including support for his chemical weapons attacks on the Kurds and Iranians. Only he failed, even with America’s help, so he went looking for an easy win to wipe out some of the lost prestige.

Whoops

But I’ll give you an even better example, and one much closer to home: East Timor.

If the US actually cared, why, exactly, would it and Australia have provided such massive aid to Indonesia in invading, annexing, and carrying out the genocide there?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

the sputtering about the Russians doing the same with North Koreans is as spectacularly hypocritical as usual from American apologists.

Oh, you admit that North Korean troops are "mercenaries." Russia is also paying North Korea, you say.

This is a step beyond your usual support for Russia. Now you are justifying support for NORTH KOREA.

 

[Tigerace117]

This is certainly a roundabout way of expressing support for Europe's greatest mass murderer since Hitler.

Not only is that not even remotely true— the US’ allies who participated in its little Iraqi crusade are directly complicit in significantly more civilian deaths, for instance— that also doesn’t actually change the fact that the US has been global fascism’s greatest friend ever, and so using that as an excuse for whining about Russia doesn’t actually work.

 

[dandolo2k]

This is certainly a roundabout way of expressing support for Europe's greatest mass murderer since Hitler.

I think nobody expresses support for any "mass murderer". We all support quick cessation of hostilities in Ukraine. People must stop dying for nothing. And this is up to US to stop this meat grinder!

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh, you admit that North Korean troops are "mercenaries." Russia is also paying North Korea, you say.

This is a step beyond your usual support for Russia. Now you are justifying support for NORTH KOREA.

Please explain, in detail, how the US making massive use of contractors in both Iraq and Afghanistan—- to the point where they equaled or outnumbered the force of US active duty personnel in country— wasn’t “desperate and pathetic” but Russia using contractors is.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

The US knew full well the dictator in charge of South Korea we supported was going to invade North the first chance he got. That was the whole reason the US was slow building up the South Korean military with heavy weapons. The only reason the US pretended to be outraged was that the North Koreans threw the first punch instead.

"Pretending to be outraged" is an insult to the North Korea war veterans. This was a serious war, fought with old strategies and old weapons, and the US was seriously committed to stopping Communism. The US sacrificed 33 thousand lives, and South Korea many more.

The Vietnam War was not caused by the North invading the South. The US got involved because an American warship started fighting ghosts, and because the US was as arrogant as ever, sure it could easily defeat the “commies”. Fifteen years later it was such a fiasco the US was squawking it’s support for the Khmer Rouge as Hanoi chased them out of Cambodia.

The war had a purpose: to turn back Communism. The North was supported by Communist China and also by the Soviet Union. The war was lost, and communism spread to South Vietnam and to Cambodia. We think of this as a lost war, but the intention was good. At the end of the day it was much less attractive for Communists to overturn weak governments in Asia. They won Vietnam and Cambodia, but their losses were horrific.

The Gulf War was, like, the definition of shortsighted US policy coming back to bite it in the US. The US enthusiastically supported Saddam in going after Iran,

Wait up. When I say "the Gulf war" I mean the war to liberate Kuwait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_invasion_of_Kuwait

aiding him with everything up to and including support for his chemical weapons attacks on the Kurds and Iranians. Only he failed, even with America’s help, so he went looking for an easy win to wipe out some of the lost prestige.

Whoops

Whoops? The Iran/Iraq war is very interesting. The US supported both sides at different times, with the aim of both Iran and Iraq being weakened. But that's not the war I'm talking about. The US took the right side in the Iraq/Kuwait war. You dismiss that as an "easy win" but you don't see Russia's invasion of Ukraine as some logical consequence of NATO hemming Russia in.

But I’ll give you an even better example, and one much closer to home: East Timor.

If the US actually cared, why, exactly, would it and Australia have provided such massive aid to Indonesia in invading, annexing, and carrying out the genocide there?

America and Australia reversed that historical mistake.

Australia allowed it, only because in 1975 Australia had huge domestic problems. Why America didn't intervene in this former Australian protectorate, is a question for Americans.

 

[j brown's body]

Couldn't really say. I wouldn't have paid much attention.

I do expect that in the negoatiations, that Trump will be fairl supportive of Ukraine and their interests.

If he is supportive of Ukraine, it will ge the first you or I have heard of it.

 

[j brown's body]

I think nobody expresses support for any "mass murderer". We all support quick cessation of hostilities in Ukraine. People must stop dying for nothing. And this is up to US to stop this meat grinder!

Mass murderer written in quotations is kind of a giveaway, doncha think?

 

[j brown's body]

Not only is that not even remotely true— the US’ allies who participated in its little Iraqi crusade are directly complicit in significantly more civilian deaths, for instance— that also doesn’t actually change the fact that the US has been global fascism’s greatest friend ever, and so using that as an excuse for whining about Russia doesn’t actually work.

Iraq is not in Europe. Nice try though.

 

[dandolo2k]

Mass murderer written in quotations is kind of a giveaway, doncha think?

mass murder in quotation is better then someone , holding Nazie flag without quotations.

 

[j brown's body]

mass murder in quotation is better then someone , holding Nazie flag without quotations.

Over a million have been murdered. How many more will it take to remove the quotation marks, oh non-supporter of Putin?

 

[dandolo2k]

Over a million have been murdered. How many more will it take to remove the quotation marks, oh non-supporter of Putin?

Don't blame these deaths on Russia! Russia is trying to protect, not kill!

 

[Tigerace117]

"Pretending to be outraged" is an insult to the North Korea war veterans. This was a serious war, fought with old strategies and old weapons, and the US was seriously committed to stopping Communism. The US sacrificed 33 thousand lives, and South Korea many more.



The war had a purpose: to turn back Communism. The North was supported by Communist China and also by the Soviet Union. The war was lost, and communism spread to South Vietnam and to Cambodia. We think of this as a lost war, but the intention was good. At the end of the day it was much less attractive for Communists to overturn weak governments in Asia. They won Vietnam and Cambodia, but their losses were horrific.



Wait up. When I say "the Gulf war" I mean the war to liberate Kuwait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_invasion_of_Kuwait



Whoops? The Iran/Iraq war is very interesting. The US supported both sides at different times, with the aim of both Iran and Iraq being weakened. But that's not the war I'm talking about. The US took the right side in the Iraq/Kuwait war. You dismiss that as an "easy win" but you don't see Russia's invasion of Ukraine as some logical consequence of NATO hemming Russia in.



America and Australia reversed that historical mistake.

Australia allowed it, only because in 1975 Australia had huge domestic problems. Why America didn't intervene in this former Australian protectorate, is a question for Americans.

The US’ thing has always been blatant hypocrisy, and 1950 was no exception to that. In case you hadn’t noticed, a sizable number of those veterans would have been brutally beaten, if not outright murdered, if they tried to vote or went in the “wrong” store once they returned home in 1953, and that is a much larger “insult” than anything I point out could ever be.

If that were actually true Rhee would have been deposed the minute he tried to derail the peace talks. Instead he was allowed to continue brutally opppressing his own people, and South Korea remained a vicious dictatorship near continuously for decades to come.

The war was fought to prop up a brutal, utterly corrupt and deeply unstable regime in which a massive number of its own people felt no loyalty to, which is why ARVN troop quality varied so wildly. The US easily could have neutralized Vietnam; Ho Chi Minh was as much a nationalist as he was a communist, and he had no real interest in “conquering Southeast Asia”. The US failed to learn from the French, and got their asses kicked as well.

“Yeah, we killed vast numbers of civilians, Cambodia is still reeling from the damage we caused forty plus years later, tens of thousands of men died, but hey, our intentions were good, so no big deal, right?”



And I explained what caused the Gulf War: Saddam needing a win after his US backed attempt to carve off the Shatt-el-Arab failed miserably. As your own source admits:

“By the time the ceasefire with Iran was signed in August 1988, Iraq was heavily debt-ridden and tensions within society were rising.[43] Most of its debt was owed to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.[44] Iraq's debts to Kuwait amounted to $14 billion.[45] Iraq pressured both nations to forgive the debts, but they refused.[44][46]”

The US happily supported Iraq trying to carve off a chunk of territory from a sovereign nation, including supporting the use of chemical weapons on civilians during that campaign. The US’ actions and words show your claims to simply be false.

“Hey, yeah, sorry about the hundreds of thousands of your civilians who died because we provided massive aid to enable the regime responsible to murder them. Oopsie.”



America enabled the genocide because America has never, ever, cared about such behavior.

 

[j brown's body]

I think nobody expresses support for any "mass murderer".

Don't blame these deaths on Russia! Russia is tyring to protect, not kill!

You need to make up your mind.

 

[j brown's body]

The US’ thing has always been blatant hypocrisy, and 1950 was no exception to that. In case you hadn’t noticed, a sizable number of those veterans would have been brutally beaten, if not outright murdered, if they tried to vote or went in the “wrong” store once they returned home in 1953, and that is a much larger “insult” than anything I point out could ever be.

If that were actually true Rhee would have been deposed the minute he tried to derail the peace talks. Instead he was allowed to continue brutally opppressing his own people, and South Korea remained a vicious dictatorship near continuously for decades to come.

The war was fought to prop up a brutal, utterly corrupt and deeply unstable regime in which a massive number of its own people felt no loyalty to, which is why ARVN troop quality varied so wildly. The US easily could have neutralized Vietnam; Ho Chi Minh was as much a nationalist as he was a communist, and he had no real interest in “conquering Southeast Asia”. The US failed to learn from the French, and got their asses kicked as well.

“Yeah, we killed vast numbers of civilians, Cambodia is still reeling from the damage we caused forty plus years later, tens of thousands of men died, but hey, our intentions were good, so no big deal, right?”



And I explained what caused the Gulf War: Saddam needing a win after his US backed attempt to carve off the Shatt-el-Arab failed miserably. As your own source admits:

“By the time the ceasefire with Iran was signed in August 1988, Iraq was heavily debt-ridden and tensions within society were rising.[43] Most of its debt was owed to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.[44] Iraq's debts to Kuwait amounted to $14 billion.[45] Iraq pressured both nations to forgive the debts, but they refused.[44][46]”

The US happily supported Iraq trying to carve off a chunk of territory from a sovereign nation, including supporting the use of chemical weapons on civilians during that campaign. The US’ actions and words show your claims to simply be false.

“Hey, yeah, sorry about the hundreds of thousands of your civilians who died because we provided massive aid to enable the regime responsible to murder them. Oopsie.”



America enabled the genocide because America has never, ever, cared about such behavior.

And here you are defending Europe's biggest mass murderer since Hitler.

Why the double standard?

 

[dandolo2k]

You need to make up your mind.

What contradictions/inconsistency do you see in my statements ? Who started the war in Ukraine ? Ukrainian nationalists in 2014. They ordered tanks into Donbass. Russia was responding to Ukrainian aggression against it's own population.

 

[Fledermaus]

REMINDER

It is Tigerace117's mission to derail threads about other nations doing bad things with a litany of evils (real and imagined) that the US (and allies) have done in the past.

He is also unable to understand the concept of "lesser of two evils" and has claimed the Communist threat never existed even when faced with all the nations overthrown or have fought Communists.

 

[j brown's body]

What contradictions/inconsistency do you see in my statements ? Who started the war in Ukraine ? Ukrainian nationalists in 2014. They ordered tanks into Donbass. Russia was responding to Ukrainian aggression against it's own population.

You're supporting a mass murderer while saying you're not.

 

[j brown's body]

REMINDER

It is Tigerace117's mission to derail threads about other nations doing bad things with a litany of evils (real and imagined) that the US (and allies) have done in the past.

He is also unable to understand the concept of "lesser of two evils" and has claimed the Communist threat never existed even when faced with all the nations overthrown or have fought Communists.

Always fascinated by his support for the Europe's biggest mass murderer since Hitler.

 

[Fledermaus]

Always fascinated by his support for the Europe's biggest mass murderer since Hitler.

BUT BUT BUT WHATABOUTMURICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hari Seldon]

Everybody must agree that it's time to change shoes about Ukraine. You man fall behind the general trend! If you don't know how to change shoes look at Stefanie:


Back in 2022

Now, when asked if she still supports NATO membership for Ukraine

Peace thru strength means US should stop persuading Ukies to cease hostilities voluntarily.
The position must be backed by cutting aid to Ukraine murderers.

She will support anything the malignant narcissist scumbag piece of shit liar grifter rapist seditionist felon and tax cheat tells her to support. Who gets pushed out of a window this week?

 

[dandolo2k]

She will support anything the malignant narcissist scumbag piece of shit liar grifter rapist seditionist felon and tax cheat tells her to support. Who gets pushed out of a window this week?

I hope Zelensky . It would be good if he takes some of his scumbags with him .