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It's Simple Folks

That's more apples-and-oranges, but the claim is absurdly false. The number of Americans starting a new job in June 2012 was 4,361,000.

Ever heard of a summer job? Ever heard of seasonal employment? Same holds true for Christmas. How about telling the rest of the story for a change?

A L
 
Let's talk about how the stimulus would lower the unemployment rate.
By saving and creating jobs, that's how. Just about two percentage points was shaved off the unemploymnet rate at the end of 2010 according to the analysis of virtually every public and private sector shop that was following the matter.

Let's talk about the folks who have stopped looking for work. Let's look at the REAL unemployment numbers.
The REAL unemployment numbers have never included people who have made no efffort to look for work. What you want to talk about is something called an alternative measure of labor underutilization. You don't really want to talk about unemployment at all.

The numbers that you present are for first time unemployment.
No, those are the numbers for all people unemployed per the monthly CPS surveys that form the basis of the unemployment data. Jobs data come from the concurrent CES surveys. One surveys households and the other surveys workplaces. Once again, initial claims for UI benefits don't enter into the picture anywhere.

The 4.5 million number is STILL nothing for the Kenyan to brag about. But he does anyway ... ignoring, as Paul Harvey said, "The rest of the story". And that is a pity.
The "big story" is that Republicans caused an absolutely devastating economic collapse and now act as if they and their inane policies had nothing to do with it. In some other countries, they would all have been shot.
 
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LOLOLOL!!! If there were no budget, we would be in a government shutdown. Get it through your head. Budgets are not passed. They are written by the President and then submitted to Congress which in normal times then works to develop and pass the dozen different authorizing and appropriating bills that fund government operations. When an irrational political party blockades that process as part of its pattern of childish temper tantrums, you end up with continuing resolutions and omnibus spending bills in the place of those dozen individual bills, but be assured that a budget has been passed and is in effect. You simply don't know enough about the process to be able to recognize the fact.

I see your not up on things, that irrational party your talking about is your beloved Dem's, it is they that voted down Obama's budget. Even they figured out Obama's spending binge is more than they can stand. The Dem's in congress want to at least hold down the deficit to around 1.5 trillion a yr. Thus far Obama and clan has raised the national debt by 6 trillion in just 4 yrs. Something they are most proud of.
 
They may be different data sets, but they still show unemployment.
No, they show the number of first time claims for UI benefits. That's why they call it that. If you want data for the number oif people unemployed, we have that as well, but it's quite a different number. As of June 2012, there were 12,794K people unemployed, but only 5,594K of them were receiving UI benefits. Half the battle is knowing where to look.

Hmmm ... and don't the folks you point out make the unemployment picture worse? And as far as people who are eligible but don't apply. I'm sure that this MAY happen ... but it hardly constitutes enough folks to be able to begin to alter ANY DATA.
If all you want to do is gawk and rubber-neck over things that make matters worse, focus only on the mass layoff numbers. Those can be really depressing. You can google them and find all those heart-wrenching, pop-media sob story articles about them too. Meanwhile, with language, cultural, and other obstacles, the numbers who fail to claim benefits that they would be entitled to is far more signficant than you think.

Well, you are true to your Kenyan boy ... blame Bush. Why don't you follow Paul Harvey and mention 'the rest of the story'? You fail to mention a thing called "The Stimulus Package". At that point it was no longer a Bush problem but a Kenyan problem. And for the gazillions that has cost us, it ain't comed no wheres near hepin make the problem get mo' better an dim lies bout de unemployment rates gonna get gooder ... unemployment still bes bad.
Paul Harvey is dead, and he wasn't of much use while he was alive. More use than George W Bush, though. At least Harvey didn't break so many things. As for the stimulus bill, it was passed in spite of Republican efforts to delay and water it down in February 2009. The recession that had begun in December 2007 hit bottom and ended in June 2009. Job losses that had been 800,000 in January 2009 were turned into job gains by November 2009. GDP growth went from -8.9% in 2008-Q4 to +4.0% in 2009-Q4. Along with the various financial facilities invented on the fly at the Fed and Treasury and the brilliant coordination of international efforts achieved by Geithner and Obama at the Spring 2009 G20 meetings, ARRA was a very important part of ending and recovering from the worst economic calamity since the Great Depression.
 
Ever heard of a summer job? Ever heard of seasonal employment? Same holds true for Christmas. How about telling the rest of the story for a change?
The rest of the story is that all of these data are available in seasonally adjusted and unadjusted formats. Sometimes one is more appropriate and sometimes the other. The notion that the data can be somehow thrown out of whack by kindergarten examples of seasonality is another one of those simply absurd things.
 
But aren't you overlooking all of us who AREN'T simple folk?
 
I've read many, and many positions you take are not conservative, especially supporting Obamacare is not a conservative view, far from it. And my vote for Romney/Ryan is in hopes of killing Obamacare. BTW pro-choice is a liberal point of view not a conservative one, yes I've read many of your posts and your far from a conservative.

So Romney isn't a conservative either...hmm
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The "big story" is that Republicans caused an absolutely devastating economic collapse and now act as if they and their inane policies had nothing to do with it. In some other countries, they would all have been shot.

The 2 bills having caused the collapse were signed by Clinton.
 
I see your not up on things, that irrational party your talking about is your beloved Dem's, it is they that voted down Obama's budget. Even they figured out Obama's spending binge is more than they can stand.
This is an example of how to make yourself look stupid. Here is some history for you.

In February 2011, Obama submitted his FY 2012 budget to Congress right on schedule. And right on schedule, Republicans predictably dashed in front of the television lights to deniounce the budget for failing to do anything about all the awful long term fiscal imbalances that we face. On and on they went about that. On April 12, 2011, in a speech at George Washington University, Obama called the Republicans on their bluff. Fine, he said. You want to focus on long-term issues, let's do it. We'll scrap the budget process this year and work instead to resolve these issues once and for all, and here in fact is my plan to cut more that $4 trillion from the deficit. Let's sit down and talk and come to a deal on this that will work for the American people. Then in May, with the entire budget process taken off the table -- Minority Leader McConnell insisted upon and was granted a show vote proposing to take up consideration of the FY 2012 budget as originally submitted. Nobody voted for it. You've been told that this was some sort of emabarrasing repudiation of Obama by his own party, and YOU ACTUALLY FELL FOR THAT!!! The vote was a stunt by Republicans to set you up, and YOU ACTUALLY FELL FOR IT!!! That's pathetic. In the weeks after of course, it turned out that Republcian leadership couldn't deliver on its own challenge. Cantor had to limp away from the Biden Senate discussons, and Boehner had to run away from his one-on-ones with the President. Instead of resolving any long-term issues at all, Republicans had to slink off to Harry Reid and bargain up a package of barely $1 trillion in cuts that could have been had in May and that was so shabby that it earned a sovereign debt downgrade from S&P.

The Dem's in congress want to at least hold down the deficit to around 1.5 trillion a yr. Thus far Obama and clan has raised the national debt by 6 trillion in just 4 yrs. Something they are most proud of.
The deficit for FY2012 will be a hair above $1.1 trillion. You are meanwhile complaining that the fire department had to use a lot of water once it arrived at the scene of the conflagration. The deficits as they emerged beginning in FY 2009 (already $1.2 trillion when Obama was sworn in) were 40-45% lost revenues from the collapse in economic activity brought on by the Great Bush Recession, 40-45% increases in automatic stabilizers and other emergency support programs and payments made necessary by the Great Bush Recession, and 10-15% the underlying budget position. Obama would like now to trim an average of some $80 billion per year off the deficit through modest tax increases on wealthy people. Republicans are opposed. They want more tax cuts for the rich and mega-corporations. Of course, that's all they ever want. The debt is meanwhile sitting at just about 100% of GDP, or about half the level of Japan and about 20% less than what the US saw at the end of WWII. Ten-year Treasuries meanwhile closed yesterday at a yield of 1.65%. People are lined up around the block to lend us money. The debt is a phony issue.
 
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The 2 bills having caused the collapse were signed by Clinton.
Neither GLB nor the CFMA caused the collapse. Neither was a very good idea, but the collapse grew up between 2002 and 2006 from seeds all its own that were planted and nourished by the wanton greed of cowboy capitalism and the abominable fiscal, monetary, and regulatory policies of the Bush administration.
 
Total failure is failure to all degrees. It doesnt matter if you are left, right, green, or anything in between, Obama is the worst failure this country has EVER seen. I had high hopes that he might have something new or good to offer but nothing but catastrophic failure from day one. It is very simple, no matter what your political stance give someone else a chance at the highest office in the land. Even I don't think Romney can screw things up as bad as Obama has. Obama =TOTAL FAILURE
The future of our great country is at hand right now and we have to reverse this downhill spiral we are on.

Wow, with all that evidence and thoughtful analysis, who can argue?:roll:
 
How much of that crapola was deliberately written not to be taken up in the Senate at all, but to be used as stupid partisan propaganda? We'll just defund NPR over here and as soon as the Senate doesn't go along with that, we'll call them a bunch of obstructionists who are not willing to compromise. Are you really as easily fooled as that?


LOLOLOL!!! If there were no budget, we would be in a government shutdown. Get it through your head. Budgets are not passed. They are written by the President and then submitted to Congress which in normal times then works to develop and pass the dozen different authorizing and appropriating bills that fund government operations. When an irrational political party blockades that process as part of its pattern of childish temper tantrums, you end up with continuing resolutions and omnibus spending bills in the place of those dozen individual bills, but be assured that a budget has been passed and is in effect. You simply don't know enough about the process to be able to recognize the fact.


Pretty feeble. Come back when you know what you are talking about.
To more briefly and accurately restate your response...yes...the senate is blocking all legislation, no there has been no budgets passed, and yes...you are blindly partisan. Got it.
 
To more briefly and accurately restate your response...yes...the senate is blocking all legislation, no there has been no budgets passed, and yes...you are blindly partisan. Got it.
Wow...bringing up the heavy artillery now, aren't we. Sorry to have to show you up so thoroughly, but that's just part of the price you have to pay. If you don't educate yourself, someone else is likely to come along and do it for you.
 
Total failure is failure to all degrees. It doesnt matter if you are left, right, green, or anything in between, Obama is the worst failure this country has EVER seen. I had high hopes that he might have something new or good to offer but nothing but catastrophic failure from day one. It is very simple, no matter what your political stance give someone else a chance at the highest office in the land. Even I don't think Romney can screw things up as bad as Obama has. Obama =TOTAL FAILURE
The future of our great country is at hand right now and we have to reverse this downhill spiral we are on.

Your opinion is clearly not objective IMHO as it totally ignores all the things Obama has done.

Obama made 500 promises in his 2008 campaign. 37% of those he has accomplished, 14% have been partly accomplished, he has ended the war in Iraq and has done what Bush should have done ages ago, he killed Obama.

Then there is the Affordable healthcare Act which is also a big accomplishment.

So saying that Obama is a total failure is totally untrue.
 
Wow...bringing up the heavy artillery now, aren't we. Sorry to have to show you up so thoroughly, but that's just part of the price you have to pay. If you don't educate yourself, someone else is likely to come along and do it for you.
:lamo yeah...THATS what you did....
 
The 2 bills having caused the collapse were signed by Clinton.

You can point to policies enacted under President Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, but assigning direct blame to one Chief Executive is asinine.

Economists point to 3 catalysts: (all of which spread the "blame" equally around public and private actions)

**In flux of money from private sector - supply drives demand, people were looking for new ways to invest. (Bush Tax Cuts)
**Banks entering into the mortgage bond market - U.S. mortgage securitization began in the 1980's.
**Predatory Lending/Mortgage Fraud - collapsing lending standard and lax regulation.

At the core of it all was moral hazard.

The Housing and Community Development Act of 1977 was singed by Carter. Congress passed the Act to reduce discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods, a practice known as redlining. TITTLE VIII is known as Community Reinvestment. Revisions of the act and other acts of congress effecting the Community Reinvestment Act directly were singed by Bush I and Clinton.

The notion that community reinvestment act directly led to the housing bubble is false. In 2003, bank regulators noted that dramatic changes in the financial services landscape had severely weakened the CRA -- meaning changes in how the mortgage banking industry did business (the lender now never meets the borrower) led to a situation where less than 30% of all home purchases were subject to the intensive CRA review. The mortgage brokers and debt bundlers had found ways to to work around the law.

Clinton did sign Riegle-Neal and the Financial Services Modernization act which repealed Glass-Steagall--both opening the door to banks growing out of control, offering new products and services, and the lessoning of regulatory requirements that would protect consumers. Under Clinton, banking advocates claimed deposit and reserve requirement were still too high and unreasonable.

Clinton signed these bills authored by a bipartisan congress. Both bills loosened many restrictions while keeping some safeguards in place.

By 2003, CRA review was weakened under a new business model and no one was paying attention. -- Imagine what would happen if the FBI were staffed with only green recruits and bureaucrats who were in the pockets of organized crime.
 
You can point to policies enacted under President Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, but assigning direct blame to one Chief Executive is asinine.

So you mean its not Bush's fault?
 
So you mean its not Bush's fault?

No.

However, the sign on President Truman's desk read: The Buck Stop Here. And if a portion of our tax dollars go to regulatory agencies, who was watching the store?
 
No.

However, the sign on President Truman's desk read: The Buck Stop Here. And if a portion of our tax dollars go to regulatory agencies, who was watching the store?

So then you agree that Obama does not deserve another 4 years in office after 5 trillion spent 15% Real Unemployment right?
 
So then you agree that Obama does not deserve another 4 years in office after 5 trillion spent 15% Real Unemployment right?

How did you make that leap of logic? It could take another 4 years maybe more to rebuild from the caused collapse.

I think that a GOP caucus in congress hell bent on winning back the white house, refusing to do the work of the people, is not helping.

Mitt Romny and the $$$ interests running the GOP represent the new version of "going Galt". Squeeze a company you own but didn't build for everything you can, pull as much profit out tax free and move it to off-shore banks. Then when you've driven the middle-class into poverty, broken, busted, or burned every factory, bridge, and great innovation in America, disappear with your tax free billions and don't look back because they don't appreciate all the happiness you have them.
 
Total failure is failure to all degrees. It doesnt matter if you are left, right, green, or anything in between, Obama is the worst failure this country has EVER seen. I had high hopes that he might have something new or good to offer but nothing but catastrophic failure from day one. It is very simple, no matter what your political stance give someone else a chance at the highest office in the land. Even I don't think Romney can screw things up as bad as Obama has. Obama =TOTAL FAILURE
The future of our great country is at hand right now and we have to reverse this downhill spiral we are on.

Obama is the same as Bush and Romney is right in that pea pod too.
 
How did you make that leap of logic? It could take another 4 years maybe more to rebuild from the caused collapse.

I think that a GOP caucus in congress hell bent on winning back the white house, refusing to do the work of the people, is not helping.

Mitt Romny and the $$$ interests running the GOP represent the new version of "going Galt". Squeeze a company you own but didn't build for everything you can, pull as much profit out tax free and move it to off-shore banks. Then when you've driven the middle-class into poverty, broken, busted, or burned every factory, bridge, and great innovation in America, disappear with your tax free billions and don't look back because they don't appreciate all the happiness you have them.

I laugh when I hear peopole say "Obama is REBUILDING it".... he is not.. period..
 
You can point to policies enacted under President Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, but assigning direct blame to one Chief Executive is asinine.
No, you can't, unless you want to believe that paving downtown streets makes bank robberies more likely since getaway cars will have an easier time in fleeing the scene. If analysis is instead constrained to things that played actual, positive, and proximate roles in the evolution of the collapse, then it starts with tax cuts for the rich not working, the Fed's promise to keep interest rates ultra-low until the missing economic activity eventually showed up, and the willingness of ambitious but hardly scrupulous private brokers to dive into the breach, writing any sort of instrument into any sort of market, then joining up with Wall Street to strip off the profit and sell off the risk. All of that happened on the watch of Bush-43, much of it with his active encouragement.

Economists point to 3 catalysts: (all of which spread the "blame" equally around public and private actions)
**In flux of money from private sector - supply drives demand, people were looking for new ways to invest. (Bush Tax Cuts)
The largest pressure from accumulating cash was coming from Asia in general and China in particular. Profits were up and the Asian and Russian crises of the late 1990's had let a lot of dollars out of what had been their typical coops. The Bush Tax Cuts were gasoline on the fire as they moved money up the income scale here creating even more large pools of surplus cash.

**Banks entering into the mortgage bond market - U.S. mortgage securitization began in the 1980's.
Securitization occurs as an intermediary -- traditionally Fannie or Freddie -- purchases mortgages from first-line lenders. It is by selling at least a portion of their originations that first-line lenders are able to recapitilalize and lend again. The GSE's will meanwhile sell the bulk of their holdings into secondary markets on the other side of which are institutional investors. Sales on a one-mortgage-at-a-time basis were time-consuming and inefficient. Securitization arose so that bundles of mortgages could be created and sold one hundred at a time instead of one at a time. Neither the mortgages themselves nor the secondary market buyers were changed as the result of this.

**Predatory Lending/Mortgage Fraud - collapsing lending standard and lax regulation.
This caused a serious problem. When the Fed froze interest rates at such low levels, the number of institutional investors clamoring for the suddenly attractive yields of traditionally boring mortgage-backed securities suddenly spiked. Wall Street saw a profit opportuinity. They quickly ginned up private-label securitization shops that did NOT enforce the conventional minimums that the GSE's did, and they then teamed up with private brokers to write mortgages into expanding credit markets and then bundle and sell it all into secondary markets after slicing and dicing it all up into the usual profit-making derivatives. That worked well for a while, but as the supply of actually creditworthy borrowers began to dry up, underwriting standards had to be ignored to a greater and greater degree if volume and profits were to be protected. Paper was soon being written to very questionable borrowers at high-cost terms that couldn't possibly be met if interest rates were to rise. In other words, brokers were deliberately writing paper they knew would fail, then selling it off as AAA to somebody else. When the garbage paper began to fail at rates higher than what system tolerances could handle, you got huge mark-to-market losses and thanks to the opacity of spiderwebbed systemic risk, soon a credit system that was locked up. As that problem bled into the broader economy, lines of credit were not renewed, shops were closed, jobs were lost, demand plummeted, real estate and equity markets collapsed, a new wave of mortgage defaults came along and there you go.

In the early years of the 2000's, the GSE's held better than a 70% market share of mortgage securitizations. By late 2006, it was below 25%. The voracious private-label appetite for mortgage paper and their reckless disregard in offloading it again were the key factors in creating a gloabl economic diaster.

At the core of it all was moral hazard.
At the core of it all was greed, ambition, and very poor public policy. Moral hazard is just a term used in an attempt to make all that sound nicer somehow.
 
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