It's Ocober 8, 2023. What should Israel do in response?

[stevecanuck]

The title asks the question.

For all of you who are hating on Israel, please tell us what they should have done instead of trying to root out and destroy Hamas.

 

[Individual]

It'll be over when it's over.

 

[instagramsci]

Remove settlers from the occupied territories

Negotiate return of hostages

 

[stevecanuck]

Remove settlers from the occupied territories

They did that in Gaza in 2005, https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/ABOUTI... of the,settlements in Samaria, was completed.

From the article:

Israel's plan of unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip and North Samaria put forward by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was carried out on 15 August 2005. The purpose of the plan was to improve Israel's security and international status in the absence of peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

With the implementation of the plan, IDF installations and forces were removed and over 9000 Israeli citizens living in 25 settlements were evicted. By 22 September 2005, Israel's withdrawal from the entire Gaza Strip to the 1967 Green Line, and the eviction of the four settlements in Samaria, was completed.
In June 2007 Hamas took over the Gaza Strip from the Palestinian Authority. Many thousands of rockets and mortar shells have been fired from the Gaza Strip onto southern Israeli towns and villages, terrorizing and destabilizing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens.

So, forgetting for the moment that you're talking about uprooting and relocating about 750,000 people, what makes you think things would be any different if they evacuated the West Bank?

 

[stevecanuck]

Negotiate return of hostages

In exchange for what? It sounds like you want Israel to simply bend over.

 

[instagramsci]

They did that in Gaza in 2005, https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/ABOUTISRAEL/MAPS/Pages/Israels Disengagement Plan- 2005.aspx#:~:text=With the implementation of the,settlements in Samaria, was completed.

Golan Heights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

West Bank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

East Jerusalem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, forgetting for the moment that you're talking about uprooting and relocating about 750,000 people,

the israelis managed to dispossess that many people in 1948. they can figure it out

what makes you think things would be any different if they evacuated the West Bank?

who knows

In exchange for what? It sounds like you want Israel to simply bend over.

are you unaware of what hostage negotiations entail

 

[Apocalypse]

Remove settlers from the occupied territories

Negotiate return of hostages

So if you kidnapp and murder hundreds of people your expectations are that the people you did this to will surrender to your terms and do what you say.
There's no wonder you're an anti-Israeli with this level of immorality.

As to the OP - Israel should have made the decision to eradicate Hamas while doing what it can to secure the return of the people who were kidnapped by the monsters.

 

[instagramsci]

There's no wonder you're an anti-Israeli with this level of immorality.

You? You have standing to impugn my morality?

That'll be the day lmao

 

[stevecanuck]

Golan Heights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

West Bank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

East Jerusalem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the israelis managed to dispossess that many people in 1948. they can figure it out

who knows

are you unaware of what hostage negotiations entail

You didn't answer the question. Trading land (Gaza) for peace only allowed the Palestinians to create a terrorism base. So, again, how would leaving the West Bank be any different? ("Who knows" is not exactly an indepth response).

 

[Apocalypse]

You? You have standing to impugn my morality?

That'll be the day lmao

Absolutely yes. You dictate terms on behalf of one of the most evil terror groups the world has ever seen as a result of their most barbaric crime as of yet.
You are in no position to even take part in any discussion about morality. It's quite obvious and straightforward really.

 

[instagramsci]

Absolutely yes. You dictate terms on behalf of one of the most evil terror groups

Israel was founded on the back of massacres and ethnic cleansing and displacement. Pray tell me what is moral about that

You are in no position to even take part in any discussion about morality. It's quite obvious and straightforward really.

Childish though terminating nonsense but what else can be expected from the Head Honcho of Hasbara on dp

 

[oneworld2]

The title asks the question.

For all of you who are hating on Israel, please tell us what they should have done instead of trying to root out and destroy Hamas.

Your question is loaded bs and you know it.

The question should be what should the Palestinians have done to free themselves from illegal Israeli occupation, illegal Israeli settlement, illegal apartheid systems and endless massacres.

You want to start the discussion about the abusive husband who has battered his wife every single day for 57 years solid and has suddenly been punched by her on 7th October and what he should do about it?

Should he do what Israel has done since?

Go around to her family home and massacre her entire family and half the people in the neighborhood ?

 

[oneworld2]

Remove settlers from the occupied territories

Negotiate return of hostages

Removing the settlers is only half the solution, you have to then let the people then run the state for their own benefit, IE authentic self determination

 

[oneworld2]

They did that in Gaza in 2005,

So, forgetting for the moment that you're talking about uprooting and relocating about 750,000 people, what makes you think things would be any different if they evacuated the West Bank?

The MFA as a source??

All's they did was remove illegal Jewish settlers from Gaza to other illegal settlements in the WB and Golan.

Moving the illegal settlers isn't really a concession in the same way that if I occupy your house and allow you to spend time in the garden shed away from me for a time , isn't a concession.

The verdict on Gaza after disengagement has been given by the ICJ, they . correctly, confirmed that Gaza remained under belligerent Israeli military occupation.

You don't get to take out the guards from inside the prison and station them all on the perimeter fence and then claim the inmates are free.

The likelihood that all of the 700,000 illegal settlers would remain and lose their Israeli citizenship in becoming Palestinians by staying is pretty remote imo

Most could/would return to Israel and those that were left would be forced to either get on with their new fellow nationals or be taken to task for the refusal to do so.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The title asks the question.

For all of you who are hating on Israel, please tell us what they should have done instead of trying to root out and destroy Hamas.

"It's October 8, 2023. What should Israel do in response?" The could haves, should haves, would haves no longer matter. The ask is cannon fodder for the debate.

The universal truth is violence and loss of life begets violence and loss of life.

The planning for October 7th was extensive, going back years, with the full on intention to cause as much damage and loss of life as possible in a short period of time. But the motivations go back even further illustrating neither Israel nor Hamas has learned very much from all the fighting. 2006, around or about, both sides of this have been full on determined at a minimum to annoy one another but more consistently try to harm one another. In a multitude of ways. The ideology that allowed Hamas to come to be going back much much further.

Trying to justify going after Hamas to get their people who were kidnapped is one thing, trying to justify the wholesale killing of as many Palestinians as possible to root out Hamas is another. No matter what Israel thinks it will achieve the ideology will still be there even if Hamas is not carrying that flag. Iran has plenty of proxy groups in the region, Israel is now in a multiple way conflict with several of them with no real end in sight with several of them.

And that should tell you something historically speaking.

While we argue who is more right than the other, who is guilty of this or that, who gets understanding and who does not, ultimately what we have seen proven beyond all doubt is the next several generations will see exactly what the last several generations have seen. More violence and loss of life. No matter what all these groups are called tomorrow, all we are seeing today play out are recruitment tools for that next several generations. Israel included.

 

[Apocalypse]

Israel was founded on the back of massacres and ethnic cleansing and displacement. Pray tell me what is moral about that

Diverting to falsehoods? We were talking about how you're dictating terms on behalf of evil terror groups you identify with.
Clearly you can't manage to defend yourself.

Childish though terminating nonsense but what else can be expected from the Head Honcho of Hasbara on dp

"Hasbara" in its English form is a word popular among terrorists, antisemites and neo-Nazi websites.
Your personal attacks attempt to deflect from the fact that you identify yourself with the kind of people who flew planes into towers on 9/11 and with enemies of humanity.

 

[Apocalypse]

"It's October 8, 2023. What should Israel do in response?" The could haves, should haves, would haves no longer matter. The ask is cannon fodder for the debate.

The universal truth is violence and loss of life begets violence and loss of life.

The planning for October 7th was extensive, going back years, with the full on intention to cause as much damage and loss of life as possible in a short period of time. But the motivations go back even further illustrating neither Israel nor Hamas has learned very much from all the fighting. 2006, around or about, both sides of this have been full on determined at a minimum to annoy one another but more consistently try to harm one another. In a multitude of ways. The ideology that allowed Hamas to come to be going back much much further.

Trying to justify going after Hamas to get their people who were kidnapped is one thing, trying to justify the wholesale killing of as many Palestinians as possible to root out Hamas is another. No matter what Israel thinks it will achieve the ideology will still be there even if Hamas is not carrying that flag. Iran has plenty of proxy groups in the region, Israel is now in a multiple way conflict with several of them with no real end in sight with several of them.

And that should tell you something historically speaking.

While we argue who is more right than the other, who is guilty of this or that, who gets understanding and who does not, ultimately what we have seen proven beyond all doubt is the next several generations will see exactly what the last several generations have seen. More violence and loss of life. No matter what all these groups are called tomorrow, all we are seeing today play out are recruitment tools for that next several generations. Israel included.

I read your comment and it seems that you failed to actually provide an answer.
I suspect @stevecanuck directed this thread specifically to your type of thinking and your lack of actual answer as to what Israel should have done is actually giving credit to OP for hitting the nail.
You can't just bring yourself say "Israel should have allowed Hamas to continue to exist and attack its citizens because going after it ensures civilians will die", as someone who shares that mentality would have said on the Allies going after the Germans afraid of causing German civilian casualties, so you avoid giving an answer.

 

[stevecanuck]

"It's October 8, 2023. What should Israel do in response?" The could haves, should haves, would haves no longer matter. The ask is cannon fodder for the debate.

The universal truth is violence and loss of life begets violence and loss of life.

Yes it does, just as Hamas wanted. They knew full well that it would be sacrificing untold thousands of Gazans to the greater end of a propaganda victory. They knew that no matter how atrocious their actions on October 7 were, and that the world would initially sympathize with Israel, things would slowly but surely swing in their favor as Israel laid waste to Gaza in a (probably) futile attempt to root out Hamas.

And they did so with a clear conscience. The Quran tells them that "those killed in the cause of Allah" will go straight to heaven., so in Islam-logic they're actually doing civilian victims a favor. A quick read of their founding charter of 1988 with its 330 references to Islam/Allah will dispel any notion that October 7 was anything other than an act of jihad. They cry crocodile tears over the bodies of women and children as the cameras roll, and then they sit back and laugh at the useful idiots in the West who cry real tears and blame Israel for everything, seemingly oblivious to the fact that Hamas orchestrated this entire cluster ****.

The error that we make when viewing and judging events in Palestine is to ascribe our values to rabid Islamists. They are a different animal who view this life as nothing more than a probationary period that will determine whether or not they get admitted to Allah's whore-house in the sky. Seriously, who cares about 80-odd years on this rock when the real prize is "paradise"? And yes, that is EXACTLY how they think.

The planning for October 7th was extensive, going back years, with the full on intention to cause as much damage and loss of life as possible in a short period of time. But the motivations go back even further illustrating neither Israel nor Hamas has learned very much from all the fighting. 2006, around or about, both sides of this have been full on determined at a minimum to annoy one another but more consistently try to harm one another. In a multitude of ways. The ideology that allowed Hamas to come to be going back much much further.

Right. About 1400 years back to be exact. We are witnessing a resurgence of Islamism that is rivaled only by its achievements in its first century of existence.

 

[instagramsci]

you identify yourself with the kind of people who flew planes into towers on 9/11 and with enemies of humanity.

Feckless shit slinging

 

[Apocalypse]

Feckless shit slinging

Did not expect a higher level from someone who identifies with the kind of people that flew planes into towers on 9/11.

 

[instagramsci]

identifies with the kind of people that flew planes into towers on 9/11.

hey you're doing that thing that you always do

making bullshit accusations

 

[Apocalypse]

hey you're doing that thing that you always do

making bullshit accusations

Considering the fact that you were making demands on behalf of an Islamist terror group saying that Israel should have answered these demands as a result of the Hamas' attacks on October 7? No.

 

[instagramsci]

Considering the fact that you were making demands on behalf of an Islamist terror group saying that Israel should have answered these demands as a result of the Hamas' attacks on October 7? No.

if Israel had any moral fiber it would have been done already

 

[Apocalypse]

if Israel had any moral fiber it would have been done already

And you're one to judge its moral fiber after you claimed that Israel should have surrendered to the terrorists' demands as a result of their attack? No.

 

[stevecanuck]

Trying to justify going after Hamas to get their people who were kidnapped is one thing, trying to justify the wholesale killing of as many Palestinians as possible

Let me stop you right there. That is pure propaganda. Israel is NOT trying to kill "as many Palestinians as possible", and you know it. They are going after Hamas leadership and soldiers, and the fact that they hide behind the skirts of civilians is on Hamas, not Israel. The only option is to stop fighting Hamas and sit back and wait for the next Oct. 7 (as Hamas promised would happen).

No matter what Israel thinks it will achieve the ideology will still be there even if Hamas is not carrying that flag. Iran has plenty of proxy groups in the region, Israel is now in a multiple way conflict with several of them with no real end in sight with several of them.

Correct. And the ideology has a name - Islam.

The Quran is the founding document of an ideology that should be commonly referred to as Islamosupremacy. If you changed all mentions of Islam/Muslims to Whiteness/White people, and Infidelity/infidels to non-Whiteness/non-Whites, nobody would have any problems defining it as the doctrine of White Supremacy that it would so clearly be.

While we argue who is more right than the other, who is guilty of this or that, who gets understanding and who does not, ultimately what we have seen proven beyond all doubt is the next several generations will see exactly what the last several generations have seen. More violence and loss of life. No matter what all these groups are called tomorrow, all we are seeing today play out are recruitment tools for that next several generations. Israel included.

Again correct. Muslims will never settle for anything less than "From the river to the sea". They hate Jews that much ad codified in the Quran. And again - you know that to be true.