It's amazing how an election loss, even as big as this one, still doesn't put a dent in the thinking that lost it.

[Chomsky]

I wouldn't say that I don't have much faith...I have zero faith in trump supporters. I really can't fathom why anyone takes the guy seriously much less votes for him. He's entertaining and apparently that is enough for most voters these days since the democrats didn't get the job done.

That being said, if I have an issue with my car and I go to the Firestone over by my house and they can't fix it; I don't hire a stand up comedian to fix it...I take it to another qualified mechanic. For whatever reason, voters think someone with no understanding of economics and zero compassion for anyone who requires public assistance is the guy we need to run things. It makes no sense but this is where we are.

I see exactly why some vote for Trump. He embodies the populism - including secure borders - that they want to see and that Dems didn't display.

 

[jaypatriot]

Not really.

I'd guess most people couldnt afford a move to another country, along with the upheaval of their job/livelihood, loss of friends and associates, etc.

You're exactly right. But if it is too painful to live here because of Trump, then Canada or Mexico is not very far away.
I would hate being trapped in a country where the majority of voters elected a president based on the laws of the land and faith in our electoral system.

 

[Chomsky]

I think it's their confirmation bias that clouds their foresight. They are so very sure Trump is going to screw this up. So, they've already pronounced their team as winners for the '26 midterm elections. Some have already fast-forwarded to the '28 election like they can't lose. Ironically, it's that same old arrogant attitude that caused their side to lose this election. They don't learn.

History says the midterms go to the off party. It's a good bet.

We'll have to see if Trump can defy that.

 

[jaypatriot]

Biden followed the advice of his experts and as a result fewer people died than had he not.
The felon ignored the advice of his experts by refusing to model good behavior and wear a damn mask in public, tried to open the economy while the pandemic raged, held large indoor rallies which no doubt caused more infections and deaths, and promoted useless medications all to increase the chances he’d get re-elected. Basically he ignored time tested epidemiologic measures to combat pandemics-like keeping people apart. I view him as a mass murderer for causing literally hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths from the virus.

You got the whole narrative nailed down tight.
No one can ever disabuse you of your understanding of what happened in 2020 thru 2023.
No use in trying to refute anything you wrote.
Your mind is made up.
It's all history now until the next pandemic hits us.

 

[Chomsky]

Do you ever wonder why Obama was elected?
What did he accomplish before and after he was elected?
He could play basketball; tell jokes; dance; and had a nice family.
Oh yes, he garnered 92 percent of the black vote.

That's a lot of votes just for free.

It might make no sense as to where we are right now.
But the voting public did not want Kamala for president.
That is what got us here.

Those votes were not "free". If they were, Kamala would have gotten them this time around.

 

[jaypatriot]

History says the midterms go to the off party. It's a good bet.

We'll have to see if Trump can defy that.

He's going to have to walk a very tight line between pushing the economy forward and fighting off lawsuits because his opposition will not like the way he is pushing the economy.
Again, it will be the voters who will decide whether Trump's economic policies hurt or help the people voting in 2026.

 

[jaypatriot]

Those votes were not "free". If they were, Kamala would have gotten them this time around.

Interestingly enough, Kamala did not appear to be as black as Obama.
And the black voters Obama talked to on camera did not particularly like the way he was addressing them.

What in the world did Obama do to win 96 percent of the black vote in 2008? Those were free votes because he was black.

How Groups Voted in 2008 | Roper Center for Public Opinion Research

Demographic Group Obama McCain TOTAL All Voters Pct. 53% 45% SEX Men 47 49 48 Women 53 56 43

ropercenter.cornell.edu

 

[Ethel2]

You got the whole narrative nailed down tight.
No one can ever disabuse you of your understanding of what happened in 2020 thru 2023.
No use in trying to refute anything you wrote.
Your mind is made up.
It's all history now until the next pandemic hits us.

It’s my area-medicine. I understand the basic principles of epidemiology and I was directly involved working for my county health department.
Our country really screwed up our covid response, partly because of the jackass but also in part because not everyone did their part to minimize the damage.
As Mitt Romney said, “you can’t sugarcoat the data”.

 

[Chomsky]

Trump actually didn't do bad in CA., well, he did badly, but not as badly as in 2020 and 2016. I think he snagged about ten million more votes form the state this time around.

??

Trump did worse in Cali this time round!

Check it out:

2020 United States presidential election in California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2024 United States presidential election in California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

--

Look at Kamala vs Biden, too. As I look at the numbers, this is looking more like Trump didn't do so well - as much as Harrison did poorly.

Trump looks good in percentages, but mostly because Harris did so poorly. Trump's not doing much better in vote totals now, than last time. The problem is Harris is doing so much worse than Biden.

Now that I see the results finally coming-in as total votes, rather than percentages, I'm now seeing Trump really didn't improve much.

 

[devildavid]

Then why the loss?

Lost the executive, congress, and judicial.

The judicial is there equally for all Americans. If not, it isn’t doing its job.

 

[Chomsky]

It’s going to take establishing a new bench of young Democratic up and comers. A few of the old bench, Buttigieg, Shapiro, could transition but many need to make room for fresh faces.

Old line Pubs, fat on suckling on corporatist teats, need to go away as well.

Yes, newcomers are needed. But there's dayem well plenty of room - and need - for Shapiro & Newsom.

I'll also add Bernie - just because! Bernie is far younger than his calendar years!

--

But here's something you might be interested in:

We keep hearing how Trump "won-over" all these Dem factions. But did he? All I ever hear is "percentages". But, what about votes? As in "quantitiy? I'm now not so sure he actually did much better!

Check-out his 2020 vs 2024 vote totals nationally, and in Cali. These are the only places I - so far - have compared actual vote quantities. Quite honestly, I don't see Trump doing much better than he did last time. What I do see is Harris doing far worse than Biden did! That's why the percentages have changed so much. Not in Trump gaining votes, but Harris losing (Biden) votes.

I'm going to more closely examine what I think I'm now seeing with the vote totals finalizing. But it does appear eye-opening! If it holds consistent, I may start a thread on it.

Check it out:

2020 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2024 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2020 United States presidential election in California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2024 United States presidential election in California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chomsky]

It always has puzzled me on why he has a show and who watches it.

I really enjoy his shows. He resonates pretty well with me.

 

[Big Brother]

When your opponent is doing themselves damage, don't interrupt them.

And they are no where near done, next up is their violent protests. 30 million violent Karens are about to demonstrate their moral and intellectual superiority by destroying American and terrorizing the population for not supporting the neo-leftist agenda.

 

[devildavid]

....Or hearing themselves talk? When will some discover that they lost because of the way they present themselves?
I'm not trying to shut them up or change them. People have a right to their feelings and opinions, but that's not what this thread is about. The thread is about the awful messaging that caused the Democrats and Never Trumpers to lose this election. Don't want to reflect on what their team did wrong, by all means, carry on, but IMHO, it's not going to help them win elections. And I don't want to hear everything Trump is going to do will be wrong in the next two years or even four. That's not going to work either. Nobody owns the crystal ball as to how that's going to go. This thread is about why they lost this last election.

Trump had awful messaging and won with it. It isn’t the messaging at all. There was nothing any more awful in the Democrats messaging. It is that a certain style of awful messaging sadly sways a large part of the population. Demagoguery seems to play all too well with far too many American voters.

 

[CimpleMan]

Maher isn’t;t wring in this. I’ve been saying the same thing for ages.

I bat my former party around because support for bad ethics and poor character is no way to solve problems. The selection of a professional con man to fix problems born of corruption is just plain not logical.

The Dems insistence on being the “Party of Woke’ is not less illogical. Trying to get your guy elected who in campaigning on stuff the majority have made clear they do not support makes no sense.

I've watched every episode for years. He's upset with a vocal minority on social issues and specifically on those speaking out against Israel. He's part Jewish and a supporter of Israel which makes him biased on the issue. He's admitted to his bias which is to his credit, but biased nonetheless.

He's also still butthurt about how Covid was handled and blames the Left. Have reason to believe based on who he had on his show he'd preferred to of gone the Herd Immuity route. Alot of his gripe is just hindsight is 20/20 baloney.

He's found a new audience for his politically incorrect mantra by hopping on the anti woke train. It's somewhat calculated. He's being opportunistic, it's branding.

Lastly, disagree with him on the reason Democrats lost and what's wrong with the Party as a whole. Think he's just scapegoating margelized minorities and railing against people he doesn't like. He's making it personal.

 

[Chomsky]

He's going to have to walk a very tight line between pushing the economy forward and fighting off lawsuits because his opposition will not like the way he is pushing the economy.
Again, it will be the voters who will decide whether Trump's economic policies hurt or help the people voting in 2026.

Speaking objectively (I hope), I'm not sure what Trump can improve?

Unemployment at near record lows. Inflation low. Wages increasing (faster than inflation). GDP solid. Interest rates declining. Stock market soaring.

Seriously, I see little room for improvement.

Unless of course Trump can "bring prices" down? Which is doubtful and might even be harmful.

From where I'm sitting, Trump will have to change perceptions to improve upon this economy. Because, I can't imagine reality getting much better.

 

[Chomsky]

Interestingly enough, Kamala did not appear to be as black as Obama.
And the black voters Obama talked to on camera did not particularly like the way he was addressing them.

What in the world did Obama do to win 96 percent of the black vote in 2008? Those were free votes because he was black.

How Groups Voted in 2008 | Roper Center for Public Opinion Research

Demographic Group Obama McCain TOTAL All Voters Pct. 53% 45% SEX Men 47 49 48 Women 53 56 43

ropercenter.cornell.edu

I see the wiggle-room you're trying to create. But the numbers are the numbers. Harris didn't get your proclaimed "free" Black vote.

 

[dncc]

I really enjoy his shows. He resonates pretty well with me.

To each their own I guess. John Oliver (not sure if that is his name or not) and I agree on most issues. Can't stand his show either. LOL...maybe it's just me.

 

[Pyrite]

Decypher said:
Well said. The Dems should embark on a period of self-reflection much like the Republican Party did after losing the house in 2018 and then the presidency and senate in 2020.

Starting here.

Acting like a vicious mob taking pride in driving off any poster even the tiniest step to the right of Mao isn't cutting it.

Post #85

````````````````````````````````````````````

What in @Decypher's post could have upset @Gardener to this degree?

 

[dncc]

I see exactly why some vote for Trump. He embodies the populism - including secure borders - that they want to see and that Dems didn't display.

Disagree. He embodies white nationalism.

Secure borders....

Most people have not ever encountered an illegal immigrant. Most of those people have never encountered someone who has encountered an illegal immigrant. Of those who have... the encounter is almost always unremarkable. Yet somehow this is the dominant issue of our day. Why? His voters either hate brown people only because they are brown or don't mind hanging around people who hate brown people only because they are brown. Do you think that Puerto Rico line was just something said by accident?

 

[OpportunityCost]

The problem isn't the Democratic message, the problem is that over 40% of eligible voters don't even go to the polls. It's a participation problem. Why do so many people think their vote doesn't matter? That's what we need to figure out.
The other problem is our campaign finance system that puts the power of the messaging in the hands of a few.

Trump supporters telling Democrats how to behave is the arrogant bullshit. The Democrats are not the problem.

Yes the Democrats are the problem, they threw working class voters overboard, they threw black voters overboard; all for illegals coming into the country as what Democrats counted on to be a new constituency. Surprise, surprise, Hispanics that are citizens hate illegal immigration, too.

Finance issue? Are you ****ing kidding me? Kamala outraised Trump almost 4 to 1!

If Democrats are not the problem, why didn't you win? Turnout could be the issue except the reason for low turnout was a bad candidate with the same bad ideas. You have to consider, possibly Harris was a flawed candidate and policy issues did not win Americans over. Pretty simple, why can't you figure it out? Quit trying to blame someone and think through how things could have been done differently and quit attacking Republicans because you have forgotten how to do anything else.

 

[OpportunityCost]

trump is ranked last among all presidents by experts, and I concur. Trump is unstable and unfit for office. Historically he is a disaster. He is a criminal, sex offender, a man who tried to reverse an election and supported that Jan.6 horror, and the list goes on...............no good republican would vote for him. Trumpers would, but not Republicans, including Reagan. Character and solid national ;leadership matters, and Trump is a terrible leader and an even worse person to be in the WH...................good grief.....

As opposed to someone that cant even define how she will do things different than her predecessor?

She couldn't even answer the softball questions, it was pathetic to watch, no ideas, no leadership, just pedantic word salads and trite bullet points of the same shit Democrats have been saying since forever.

Last, Tshade, do have any idea how most of the libs here feel about Reagan? They hold him in slightly greater esteem than Trump but largely hate him almost as much. A lot of people who aren't even Republicans voted for him. Maybe you should think about why.

 

[Decypher]

Translation--you have nothing to actually offer voters that might swing them to your side. You just hope they come to hate the other side more.

Yep, just like both parties do every cycle.

 

[Big Brother]

As opposed to someone that cant even define how she will do things different than her predecessor?

She couldn't even answer the softball questions, it was pathetic to watch, no ideas, no leadership, just pedantic word salads and trite bullet points of the same shit Democrats have been saying since forever.

Last, Tshade, do have any idea how most of the libs here feel about Reagan? They hold him in slightly greater esteem than Trump but largely hate him almost as much. A lot of people who aren't even Republicans voted for him. Maybe you should think about why.

To be fair to the libs here, they hate everything that is not benefiting the neo-left agenda. It's not just Reagan. But, if you measure the hate, you can see just how good a politician really was/is. How much do the hate Trump? A lot more that they ever hated Reagan. GW Bush was definitely the worst POTUS in American history. Funny how much the left like him now.

 

[Decypher]

I am not affiliated with any political party. That makes me an independent. There are conservative independents, librul independents, and centrist. We do not all think alike all the time. Your party lost the independents this time around.

It sounds like it's absolutely your plan. Sit back and hope for the GOP to fail and implode. Unfortunately for you, the last time the republicans have been this united, they held onto the White House for 12 years.

I am really not concerned with the popular vote. Only libruls are obsessed with it as these days they have no real confidence they can consistently win in the arena of ideas nationwide. They prefer that densely populated areas like Los Angeles and New York call the shots for everyone. They are afraid of the electoral college maps showing alot more red then blue.

Well then I’m as Independent as you are. Certainly not affiliated with any political party. You keep saying the Republicans are united but who know if that’s even true? It’s not even 2 years since your civil war of the speaker of the house. We’ll see how united you are when it comes to confirming the clowns chosen for the cabinet.