Amen!As many Southern Baptist churches of the time did, the one I grew up in typically sang the first and last verse of most hymns. I probably know 100 hymns by heart... but not the middle verses.
Until tonight, I'd never actually examined the words of the third verse of It Is Well With My Soul.... but now I have, and it blessed me greatly, so I will share it:
My sin, not in part, but the whole,
Is nailed to His Cross, and I bear it no more;
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
..."and I bear it no more"...ain't that great? Made me about jump up and run the aisles like a Pentecostal.
Ever heard of a "pyonder?"As many Southern Baptist churches of the time did, the one I grew up in typically sang the first and last verse of most hymns. I probably know 100 hymns by heart... but not the middle verses.
Until tonight, I'd never actually examined the words of the third verse of It Is Well With My Soul.... but now I have, and it blessed me greatly, so I will share it:
My sin, not in part, but the whole,
Is nailed to His Cross, and I bear it no more;
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
..."and I bear it no more"...ain't that great? Made me about jump up and run the aisles like a Pentecostal.
Sounds like a dangerous concept. Absolution from birth? How far does that go?As many Southern Baptist churches of the time did, the one I grew up in typically sang the first and last verse of most hymns. I probably know 100 hymns by heart... but not the middle verses.
Until tonight, I'd never actually examined the words of the third verse of It Is Well With My Soul.... but now I have, and it blessed me greatly, so I will share it:
My sin, not in part, but the whole,
Is nailed to His Cross, and I bear it no more;
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
..."and I bear it no more"...ain't that great? Made me about jump up and run the aisles like a Pentecostal.
Makes my heart jump every time I'm reminded of it. So very thankful for what He did for my sake.As many Southern Baptist churches of the time did, the one I grew up in typically sang the first and last verse of most hymns. I probably know 100 hymns by heart... but not the middle verses.
Until tonight, I'd never actually examined the words of the third verse of It Is Well With My Soul.... but now I have, and it blessed me greatly, so I will share it:
My sin, not in part, but the whole,
Is nailed to His Cross, and I bear it no more;
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
..."and I bear it no more"...ain't that great? Made me about jump up and run the aisles like a Pentecostal.
Sounds like a dangerous concept. Absolution from birth? How far does that go?
See, my understanding is that Christ redeemed mankind for the Original Sin in the Garden of Eden, not that He redeemed every sin commited by everyone.
But this is coming from someone who long ago decided he couldn't be a Christian because he can't accept the doctrine of original sin.
Do you believe that Jesus redeems humanity for the original sin in the Garden of Eden? That's what Christ the Redeemer means, way I was taught. If you don't believe there was an original sin that we are all guilty of you can't believe that we need redemption.you can become a christian, the door is open to all.
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
fix that now, rather than judgement later.
blessings eternally.
Itβs a metaphor. If you donβt take it literally, and understand the metaphor it will save you. Not after you die, but right now.Do you believe that Jesus redeems humanity for the original sin in the Garden of Eden? That's what Christ the Redeemer means, way I was taught. If you don't believe there was an original sin that we are all guilty of you can't believe that we need redemption.
If you believe Christ on the cross redeemed your personal sins, well, sin has no consequences if you're a Christian.
What's a metaphor? Original sin?Itβs a metaphor. If you donβt take it literally, and understand the metaphor it will save you. Not after you die, but right now.
Christ on the cross saving you. Genesis is also full of metaphors but the church got most of them wrong and invented original sin out of ignorance and for political control.What's a metaphor? Original sin?
I love the old hymns. One of my favorites has always been:
When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,And the roll is called a pyonder, Iβll be there.
Song I learned as a kid and that silliness has stuck with me ever since.
Do you believe that Jesus redeems humanity for the original sin in the Garden of Eden? That's what Christ the Redeemer means, way I was taught. If you don't believe there was an original sin that we are all guilty of you can't believe that we need redemption.
If you believe Christ on the cross redeemed your personal sins, well, sin has no consequences if you're a Christian.
Christ's sacrifice redeemed mankind from both original and personal sin, but that sacrifice is efficacious only for those who accept it and (in the case of personal sins) repent. One cannot willfully and gravely sin while at the same time following Christ:Do you believe that Jesus redeems humanity for the original sin in the Garden of Eden? That's what Christ the Redeemer means, way I was taught. If you don't believe there was an original sin that we are all guilty of you can't believe that we need redemption.
If you believe Christ on the cross redeemed your personal sins, well, sin has no consequences if you're a Christian.
1 John 2:4 said:He who saith that he knoweth Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I think you need only read the news to find plentiful evidence of humanity's sinful nature.
And yes, when a Christian sins there are consequences. All actions, good or ill, have consequences. "Not perfect, just forgiven."
Romans 6 (excerpted for brevity)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
... that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Christ's sacrifice redeemed mankind from both original and personal sin, but that sacrifice is efficacious only for those who accept it and (in the case of personal sins) repent. One cannot willfully and gravely sin while at the same time following Christ:
All "original sin" refers to is the inherited corruption of human nature, a consequence of Adam's sin which all of humanity, being ultimately descended from Adam, has inherited from himSounds like a dangerous concept. Absolution from birth? How far does that go?
See, my understanding is that Christ redeemed mankind for the Original Sin in the Garden of Eden, not that He redeemed every sin commited by everyone.
But this is coming from someone who long ago decided he couldn't be a Christian because he can't accept the doctrine of original sin.
All "original sin" refers to is the inherited corruption of human nature, a consequence of Adam's sin which all of humanity, being ultimately descended from Adam, has inherited from him
All anyone needs do is examine their own selves to readily see where we've inherited that sinful nature - be it in our greed, lust, hatred and anger, envy, pride, sensuality, jealousy, drunkenness, etc. (Gal 5:19). We are demonstrably imperfect beings.
The bible affirms it as well in numerous places: PS 51:5 ("Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me."), Gen 8:21 ("the intent of manβs heart is evil from his youth..."), Eph 2:1 ("And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world...").
Question is - when is this sin of ours imputed to us? When are we actually deemed guilty of it? The instant we exited the womb? Some define this as "original sin" - believing the instant we exit the womb we're damned to hell, merely because we have inherited Adam's sinful nature (which we have), yet BEFORE we've ever actually committed any sins. I don't believe the bible teaches this - I mean, what sins can a newborn commit that rightfully eternally condemns him? It's a fair question.
Back to Genesis 8:21 - what defines "youth?" Isaiah made this statement about the child Immanuel (Jesus):
"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken." (Isa 7:15f)While there is no explicit age defined here, clearly the concept is articulated - that at some point we reach an age where we will know there is a difference between right and wrong and what that difference is. Moreover, at some point after this, because of our inherited adamic nature, we will make the choice to knowingly do wrong; and it's at this point we're held accountable for our sin. But there's nothing in the bible that stipulates at what age this occurs, so it's pointless to be dogmatic about it.
David, after committing adultery with Bathsheba, fasted and wept for the child she bore by him, praying he wouldn't die. But when he did die, David quit praying and fasting and was challenged as to why. He simply stated:
βWhile the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, βWho knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, that the child may live.β But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.β (2 Sam 12:22f)
The child had done nothing wrong, but died anyway, and David, knowing the child's death was a consequence of his sin, not the child's, was nevertheless convinced he would go [to heaven] to the child.
Again, there's no solid warrant for being dogmatic about this, but I believe the bible DOES acknowledge grace to those [newborns and beyond] who have yet to reach that age where they know the difference between right and wrong, and grants them according to His grace forgiveness for when they ignorantly do wrong.
Faith/belief is fundamentally the readiness to obey, to obey on the basis of knowing who God is and who we are in relation to Him. We aren't mature enough to know this having just exited the womb; and it takes time for a child to mature to the point they know the distinction and can make an informed decision to obey or not to obey. I firmly believe God's forgiveness covers us until we reach that point in time. After that, we need to seek Him of our own accord for His forgiveness, being willing to confess our sins, acknowledge His sacrifice on the cross for us, and obey Him. (Heb 3:16-19)
Galatians says "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:βDo you believe that Jesus redeems humanity for the original sin in the Garden of Eden? That's what Christ the Redeemer means, way I was taught. If you don't believe there was an original sin that we are all guilty of you can't believe that we need redemption.
If you believe Christ on the cross redeemed your personal sins, well, sin has no consequences if you're a Christian.
Thanks Goshin. Good thread.Well said, bravo.
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