It is just a matter of time for marijuana to be legalized.

[Tigger]

Ah, you're a nanny stater. That explains a lot.

No. I'm just someone who believes in Right and Wrong more than personal freedom. If people could be forced to accept the consequences of their actions while under the influence of these things, and their influence on society I'd be fine with them being legal. However, since they aren't and in most cases can't be forced to do so, I see no need for them to be available.

 

[notquiteright]

Eventually Pot will be legalized. Big Pharma and the alcohol industry has been using tax payer dollars to keep market share and we are losing the will to spend so much to penalize those who use/sell.

I don't think it very noble or unique for someone to ban drinking, eating, smoking anything from their property. Millions do that all the time, I don't allow smoking cigarettes in my pick-up, I don't much care for the smell but it isn't a noble/moral stance. Millions go outside to smoke rather than smoke around their own children.

I do believe some confuse a moral code with selfishness and cowardice.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No. I'm just someone who believes in Right and Wrong more than personal freedom. If people could be forced to accept the consequences of their actions while under the influence of these things, and their influence on society I'd be fine with them being legal. However, since they aren't and in most cases can't be forced to do so, I see no need for them to be available.

So you're saying that you're fine with it being legal? Last time I checked, people are still held 100% responsible by law for their actions regardless of the substance they find themselves on.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

If people could be forced to accept the consequences of their actions while under the influence of these things, and their influence on society I'd be fine with them being legal.

Interesting finally.

What are the consequences you would force people to face, other than being kicked out of school?

 

[Surtr]

No. I'm just someone who believes in Right and Wrong more than personal freedom. If people could be forced to accept the consequences of their actions while under the influence of these things, and their influence on society I'd be fine with them being legal. However, since they aren't and in most cases can't be forced to do so, I see no need for them to be available.

So you want to legislate your version of morality. Classic nanny nonsense.

 

[Tigger]

So you're saying that you're fine with it being legal? Last time I checked, people are still held 100% responsible by law for their actions regardless of the substance they find themselves on.

No they aren't. When was the last time you saw a drunk driver charged with MURDER (not Manslaughter)? When is the last time you saw a smoker forced to pay for his/her own medical bills for the lung cancer treatments? When is the last time you saw a marijuana smoker tossed off public assistance because of their addiction? This society is not interested in forcing ANYONE to accept the consequences of their actions, and hasn't been in a very long time.

Interesting finally. What are the consequences you would force people to face, other than being kicked out of school?

To keep this short and sweet, I would suggest that anyone who has WILLINGLY ingested any form of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc... should not be able to claim any form of impairment as a defense against a criminal charge. Charge the drunk driver who kills someone with Second Degree Murder instead of Manslaughter. Force the smoker to pay for his/her own medical bills related to that activity. Force the drug addict off of our social welfare rolls and actually make them find a way to fend for themselves.

So you want to legislate your version of morality. Classic nanny nonsense.

I would prefer not to have to legislate it. In the past it wasn't necessary to legislate it, because it was considered basic common sense, reason, and logic. Unfortunately that's no longer the case.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No they aren't. When was the last time you saw a drunk driver charged with MURDER (not Manslaughter)?

Because it's not murder. Murder can only be defined as intentional killing. If you murdered someone while drunk, you would be charged for murder. If you recklessly killed someone in a car while sober, you would be charged with manslaughter. Your sobriety plays NO FACTOR in trial.

When is the last time you saw a smoker forced to pay for his/her own medical bills for the lung cancer treatments? When is the last time you saw a marijuana smoker tossed off public assistance because of their addiction?

Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Have you ever not exercised in a day? Have you ever j-walked? Sped in a car? There are a lot of things you do in your life that can adversely affect your health. Perhaps you would enjoy having the rest of society invade your life and tell you what things you're doing are healthy and what aren't.

This society is not interested in forcing ANYONE to accept the consequences of their actions, and hasn't been in a very long time.

Yep, as you point out, we don't even have a justice system. No one is responsible for anything. It's the wild west.

If I recall correctly, you were the guy, who word for word wishes he lived in the middle ages. How well do you think law was enforced back then?
Weed wasn't illegal back then. Sounds like your nightmare.

 

[German guy]

Ah, you're a nanny stater. That explains a lot.

My impression is that he's more of a "daddy stater". You know, someone who doesn't want a state that always cheers you up when you're down and pampers you, but a state that's like an authoritarian father who punishes the kids strictly for their lack of morals.

 

[Tigger]

Because it's not murder. Murder can only be defined as intentional killing. If you murdered someone while drunk, you would be charged for murder. If you recklessly killed someone in a car while sober, you would be charged with manslaughter. Your sobriety plays NO FACTOR in trial.

I'm sorry but getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 lb weapon when you are not capable of making decisions properly is INTENTIONAL KILLING so far as I'm concerned.

Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Have you ever not exercised in a day? Have you ever j-walked? Sped in a car? There are a lot of things you do in your life that can adversely affect your health. Perhaps you would enjoy having the rest of society invade your life and tell you what things you're doing are healthy and what aren't.

I don't eat fast food very often, I exercise 4-5 times a week, I rarely jaywalk or speed. I would have no problem with my health insurance and medical costs being determined by my exercise regiment and my diet. I would be more than happy to have my car insurance determined by the way I drive.

Yep, as you point out, we don't even have a justice system. No one is responsible for anything. It's the wild west.

Yes, it is. We have a LEGAL system, which is more interested in "fair play" and bureaucracy than anything else. The idea of Justice is long gone in this society.

If I recall correctly, you were the guy, who word for word wishes he lived in the middle ages. How well do you think law was enforced back then?

Laws were actually enforced fairly well back then, though through a very different system than what we use today. Back then society and the populace dealt with law-breakers much more than the government did.

 

[Tigger]

My impression is that he's more of a "daddy stater". You know, someone who doesn't want a state that always cheers you up when you're down and pampers you, but a state that's like an authoritarian father who punishes the kids strictly for their lack of morals.

Exactly. That is what the role of Government should be.... to ensure that you are following the rules and living properly while at the same time ensuring that you endure the consequences when you do step out of line.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I'm sorry but getting behind the wheel of a 2,000 lb weapon when you are not capable of making decisions properly is INTENTIONAL KILLING so far as I'm concerned.



I don't eat fast food very often, I exercise 4-5 times a week, I rarely jaywalk or speed. I would have no problem with my health insurance and medical costs being determined by my exercise regiment and my diet. I would be more than happy to have my car insurance determined by the way I drive.



Yes, it is. We have a LEGAL system, which is more interested in "fair play" and bureaucracy than anything else. The idea of Justice is long gone in this society.



Laws were actually enforced fairly well back then, though through a very different system than what we use today. Back then society and the populace dealt with law-breakers much more than the government did.

Well, at least you're consistent. You've always been very open that your morality, and your morality alone should define the law, and those who defy your moral authority should be put to death. It's almost impossible to take you seriously.

 

[Surtr]

Exactly. That is what the role of Government should be.... to ensure that you are following the rules and living properly while at the same time ensuring that you endure the consequences when you do step out of line.

Define living properly.

 

[Tigger]

Define living properly.

Living by Morals, Values, and the basic concept of Law and Order.

 

[Your Star]

Living by Morals, Values, and the basic concept of Law and Order.

Nice way to skirt the question.

 

[Tigger]

Nice way to skirt the question.

The full answer would require thousands of word and more time than I have at the moment, Star. The answer he received should give him a general idea of what I'm talking about and allow him to propose additional, more specific questions, if necessary.

 

[Your Star]

The full answer would require thousands of word and more time than I have at the moment, Star. The answer he received should give him a general idea of what I'm talking about and allow him to propose additional, more specific questions, if necessary.

But my idea of living by morals, values, and the basic concept of law and order would include marijuana not only being legal, but perfectly acceptable to consume. So your answer really got you nowhere.

 

[Tigger]

But my idea of living by morals, values, and the basic concept of law and order would include marijuana not only being legal, but perfectly acceptable to consume. So your answer really got you nowhere.

That goes back to the concept of Universal Morality that I've discussed any number of times, Star. Your idea or my idea of what Morality ought to be is totally immaterial to what true Morality IS.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

That goes back to the concept of Universal Morality that I've discussed any number of times, Star. Your idea or my idea of what Morality ought to be is totally immaterial to what true Morality IS.

So you claim to be aware of some objective morality that has nothing to do with the subjective morality of you or me? And you earlier stated that you were NOT a christian!?

What might this objective moral standard be? And who/what defined it?

 

[Tigger]

So you claim to be aware of some objective morality that has nothing to do with the subjective morality of you or me? And you earlier stated that you were NOT a christian!?

What might this objective moral standard be? And who/what defined it?

I believe that there is a type of morality that in the past was so instinctive and innate that it didn't even need to be discussed between individuals. I believe this morality existed strongly right up through the middle of the 19th century and only then began to wane, with the loss of Faith to the ideals of Science. The best place to see these ideals is to look at the successful pre-20th century societies and derive the COMMON, CORE ELEMENTS of those societies. What one comes up with is a moral tradition that is not very different from what we see in the Middle East today. It's somewhat less aggressive, but otherwise it's very similar.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I believe that there is a type of morality that in the past was so instinctive and innate that it didn't even need to be discussed between individuals. I believe this morality existed strongly right up through the middle of the 19th century and only then began to wane, with the loss of Faith to the ideals of Science. The best place to see these ideals is to look at the successful pre-20th century societies and derive the COMMON, CORE ELEMENTS of those societies. What one comes up with is a moral tradition that is not very different from what we see in the Middle East today. It's somewhat less aggressive, but otherwise it's very similar.

How convenient. "I can't really define it, and nobody talked about it, but it was totally there. Oh, and I really like Shariah law."

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I believe that there is a type of morality that in the past was so instinctive and innate that it didn't even need to be discussed between individuals. I believe this morality existed strongly right up through the middle of the 19th century and only then began to wane, with the loss of Faith to the ideals of Science. The best place to see these ideals is to look at the successful pre-20th century societies and derive the COMMON, CORE ELEMENTS of those societies. What one comes up with is a moral tradition that is not very different from what we see in the Middle East today. It's somewhat less aggressive, but otherwise it's very similar.

And by the way, shariah law is defined by their holy book, not by everybody just "knowing".

 

[Tigger]

How convenient. "I can't really define it, and nobody talked about it, but it was totally there. Oh, and I really like Shariah law."

I understand it's not the sort of thing that most people can or want to buy into, Alpaca. However, it is what I believe and what I will always believe. t might be about time for you to reference your signature line relative to this discussion.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I understand it's not the sort of thing that most people can or want to buy into, Alpaca. However, it is what I believe and what I will always believe. t might be about time for you to reference your signature line relative to this discussion.

You're absolutely right, I'm wasting my time.

Was just trying to understand the unintelligible.

Good day sir.

 

[Tigger]

You're absolutely right, I'm wasting my time. Was just trying to understand the unintelligible. Good day sir.

The vast majority of people here who interact with me are wasting their time, Alpaca. I've been trying to explain that to people for quite a while now.

 

[Surtr]

Living by Morals, Values, and the basic concept of Law and Order.

Yeah, which ones?