Israel Isolated as UN Security Council Demands Immediate Ceasefire in Gaza

[Absentglare]

Innocent civilians must not be bombed. Innocent civilians must not be starved to death. Innocent civilians must not be dispossessed and displaced.

Will Israel unkill 20,000 innocent civilians? Will Israel rebuild the destruction in Gaza? Will Israel return all the stolen Palestinian land?
I would love to see the hostages home with their families, but what is in it for the Palestinians when Israel is completely untrustworthy and won't be held to any deal if it doesn't want to? Israels current leader is no better than the Hamas leadership. He gets much of his political support from people who would love to exterminate the Palestinian people and steal all their land.

You both raise good points and I agree in spirit that the loss of innocent civilians is terrible. We must acknowledge, however, that the loss of civilian lives as collateral damage is less terrible than the loss of civilian lives as primary targets. This is why I do not agree with the above (bold) statement.

Netanyahu is better than Hamas, but not by as much as some may claim. I do believe that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu are committed to peace.

Israel does face a problem, the Palestinian losses in this conflict continue to rapidly accumulate while Israeli losses are more centered on Oct 7th. The longer this goes on, the worse it will look. Realizing Israel’s goal to eliminate Hamas will result in truly unconscionable loss of life among Palestinian civilians.

 

[Ethel2]

What is "irrelevant"?

It doesn't matter how "determined" the Government of Israel is today. FACTS prove that disproportionate retaliation doesn't work. Earlier Governments of Israel have bombed the shit out of Gaza and killed way more Palestinians than Hamas killed Israelis - and Hamas survived.

You can repeat your mantra - Hamas must be eliminated, Hamas must be eradicated - over and over, but it won't happen.

In the meantime, you and everyone else who blindly, unquestioningly, supports starving and slaughtering children, babies, men, and women to the last one is simply saying, Might Makes Right. And it's okay to torture and kill Palestinians.

There is no choice for Israel but to neutralize the pigs to the fullest extent possible. That will happen no matter how much you don’t like it. No one wants innocent civilians to be killed but let’s be completely clear: all bloodshed is on the hands of the pigs. If they didn’t commit the 10/7 atrocity, if they stopped lobbying rockets into Israeli population centers; if they disavowed their promise to destroy the sovereign nation of Israel to create an Islamic state from river to sea….then no one need die.
Israel is going to exist whether the antisemites like it or not. And they aren’t going to depend on anyone else to save them because no one is coming.

 

[Pyrite]

You dishonest liar know that israel means their gov. Like "america commited attrocites" does not mean the American people but the GOV which is all I have said...

Why lie? Why?

You konw when someone says, like me, america has commited war crimes in iraq I mean the gov, LIKE WHEN I SAY ISRAEL.

YOU know this.

I don't know that. I do know that I try to differentiate between Governments and people. Why have I made this effort?

Because too many here - of all political persuasions* - have been quick to accuse those who stick up for Palestinians as haters of Jews, as supporters of Hamas, as people who want Israel to be destroyed etc.

*including liberals, progressives, Democrats, I'm sorry to say

I don't mean to offend you. That I have done so is apparent.

For that I apologize.

 

[Ethel2]

You both raise good points and I agree in spirit that the loss of innocent civilians is terrible. We must acknowledge, however, that the loss of civilian lives as collateral damage is less terrible than the loss of civilian lives as primary targets. This is why I do not agree with the above (bold) statement.

Netanyahu is better than Hamas, but not by as much as some may claim. I do believe that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu are committed to peace.

Israel does face a problem, the Palestinian losses in this conflict continue to rapidly accumulate while Israeli losses are more centered on Oct 7th. The longer this goes on, the worse it will look. Realizing Israel’s goal to eliminate Hamas will result in truly unconscionable loss of life among Palestinian civilians.

Good post.
But keep in mind that if the pigs surrendered no one else would die.

 

[Pyrite]

There is no choice for Israel but to neutralize the pigs to the fullest extent possible. That will happen no matter how much you don’t like it. No one wants innocent civilians to be killed but let’s be completely clear: all bloodshed is on the hands of the pigs. If they didn’t commit the 10/7 atrocity, if they stopped lobbying rockets into Israeli population centers; if they disavowed their promise to destroy the sovereign nation of Israel to create an Islamic state from river to sea….then no one need die.
Israel is going to exist whether the antisemites like it or not. And they aren’t going to depend on anyone else to save them because no one is coming.

This is your opinion only. And, to be blunt, it's appalling that anyone advocates the continued slaughter of helpless civilians.

Especially when it's known that killing and torturing civilians has not and will not accomplish the purported goal of "eliminating" Hamas.

I can only assume that demonizing and dehumanizing 2.3 million men, women, children, and babies is what allows some of us to sit by - or, worse, to applaud - the systematic elimination of Palestinians in Gaza by the Government of Israel.

 

[Ethel2]

Wrong. I do know what goes on in Palestinian homes and schools. Are you aware that Palestinian maps don't have a nation of Israel?

The Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, that the only good Jew is a dead Jew. They are taught that Israel has no right to exist.
This will all change.

 

[george48]

Of, for crying out loud....

1) What "comeuppance"? There are no teeth in this resolution, as others have pointed out.

2) Yeah, the Government (not the country) of Israel is slaughtering civilians and has oppressed Palestinians for decades, but I'd not call the nation a "terrorist state".

3) THERE IS NO EASY or QUICK RESOLUTION to the decades of turbulent relations between Palestinians and Israelis.

You dishonest liar know that israel means their gov. Like "america commited attrocites" does not mean the American people but the GOV which is all I have said...

Why lie? Why?

You konw when someone says, like me, america has commited war crimes in iraq I mean the gov, LIKE WHEN I SAY ISRAEL.

YOU know

I don't know that. I do know that I try to differentiate between Governments and people. Why have I made this effort?

Because too many here - of all political persuasions* - have been quick to accuse those who stick up for Palestinians as haters of Jews, as supporters of Hamas, as people who want Israel to be destroyed etc.

*including liberals, progressives, Democrats, I'm sorry to say

I don't mean to offend you. That I have done so is apparent.

For that I apologize.

So we are on the same page.

I apologise for getting you wrong. Sorry

 

[Ishm]

You both raise good points and I agree in spirit that the loss of innocent civilians is terrible. We must acknowledge, however, that the loss of civilian lives as collateral damage is less terrible than the loss of civilian lives as primary targets. This is why I do not agree with the above (bold) statement.

Netanyahu is better than Hamas, but not by as much as some may claim. I do believe that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu are committed to peace.

Israel does face a problem, the Palestinian losses in this conflict continue to rapidly accumulate while Israeli losses are more centered on Oct 7th. The longer this goes on, the worse it will look. Realizing Israel’s goal to eliminate Hamas will result in truly unconscionable loss of life among Palestinian civilians.

Except that there is more and more evidence coming out that many of the civilian Palestinians killed by Israel were the primary targets. You can't characterise everything that has happened based on the original attack. Yes, that was awful and deserved a response. But bombing refugees and shooting innocent people no where near an armed Hamas fighter is not just "collateral damage". These events are war crimes that should be appropriately punished just like the original attackers.

 

[Pyrite]

You both raise good points and I agree in spirit that the loss of innocent civilians is terrible. We must acknowledge, however, that the loss of civilian lives as collateral damage is less terrible than the loss of civilian lives as primary targets. This is why I do not agree with the above (bold) statement.

Netanyahu is better than Hamas, but not by as much as some may claim. I do believe that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu are committed to peace.

Israel does face a problem, the Palestinian losses in this conflict continue to rapidly accumulate while Israeli losses are more centered on Oct 7th. The longer this goes on, the worse it will look. Realizing Israel’s goal to eliminate Hamas will result in truly unconscionable loss of life among Palestinian civilians.

At this point, the Government of Israel has not only killed 32,000 civilians, it has also brought half of them to the brink of starvation.

And Hamas is far from "eradicated".

That anyone considers this continuing carnage, this bloodbath, to be acceptable is appalling.

 

[george48]

I don't know that. I do know that I try to differentiate between Governments and people. Why have I made this effort?

Because too many here - of all political persuasions* - have been quick to accuse those who stick up for Palestinians as haters of Jews, as supporters of Hamas, as people who want Israel to be destroyed etc.

*including liberals, progressives, Democrats, I'm sorry to say

I don't mean to offend you. That I have done so is apparent.

For that I apologize.

I do apologise

 

[Pyrite]

I do apologise

I saw that you did this, in the earlier post.

I appreciate it. Thanks very much.

I'm sorry I mistook/misjudged your message. I'll try not to do so in the future.

 

[Ethel2]

This is your opinion only. And, to be blunt, it's appalling that anyone advocates the continued slaughter of helpless civilians.

Especially when it's known that killing and torturing civilians has not and will not accomplish the purported goal of "eliminating" Hamas.

I can only assume that demonizing and dehumanizing 2.3 million men, women, children, and babies is what allows some of us to sit by - or, worse, to applaud - the systematic elimination of Palestinians in Gaza by the Government of Israel.

No one wants the killing of innocent Palestinians any more than they wanted the killing of innocent Germans or Japanese in WW2 when the allies bombed the crap out of those countries without regard to civilian safety. But war is messy. When the Germans and the Japanese surrendered the killing stopped.
The pigs must surrender. Netanyahu must be replaced. Only then can serious negotiations for a viable two state solution begin.

 

[Pyrite]

No one wants the killing of innocent Palestinians any more than they wanted the killing of innocent Germans or Japanese in WW2 when the allies bombed the crap out of those countries without regard to civilian safety. But war is messy. When the Germans and the Japanese surrendered the killing stopped.
The pigs must surrender. Netanyahu must be replaced. Only then can serious negotiations for a viable two state solution begin.

There's no true comparison to the world wars. Why not? Because Hamas has no military, while Israel is a modern military state. Hamas might TALK about destroying Israel, but it lacks the means to do so. Israel, on the other hand, sure as hell has the means to kill outright 32,000 civilians, to displace and dispossess at least half the population of Gaza, and to starve to death tens of thousands more. Hamas, on the other hand, cannot do anything like this to Israel.

You seem to have made up your mind that 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza have no rights at all. That it's okay for the militarily-powerful and wealthy nation of Israel to do whatever it wants to these people. I'm appalled that any Americans, any Westerners, have this attitude.

 

[george48]

There's no true comparison to the world wars. Why not? Because Hamas has no military, while Israel is a modern military state. Hamas might TALK about destroying Israel, but it lacks the means to do so. Israel, on the other hand, sure as hell has the means to kill outright 32,000 civilians, to displace and dispossess at least half the population of Gaza, and to starve to death tens of thousands more. Hamas, on the other hand, cannot do anything like this to Israel.

You seem to have made up your mind that 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza have no rights at all. That it's okay for the militarily-powerful and wealthy nation of Israel to do whatever it wants to these people. I'm appalled that any Americans, any Westerners, have this attitude.

You are so right...i am also pro palestine...sorry for our squabble

 

[Ethel2]

There's no true comparison to the world wars. Why not? Because Hamas has no military, while Israel is a modern military state. Hamas might TALK about destroying Israel, but it lacks the means to do so. Israel, on the other hand, sure as hell has the means to kill outright 32,000 civilians, to displace and dispossess at least half the population of Gaza, and to starve to death tens of thousands more. Hamas, on the other hand, cannot do anything like this to Israel.

You seem to have made up your mind that 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza have no rights at all. That it's okay for the militarily-powerful and wealthy nation of Israel to do whatever it wants to these people. I'm appalled that any Americans, any Westerners, have this attitude.

I don’t really care what you’re appalled at. I’m appalled that some here think that Israel should tolerate massacres, random bombing of their population centers etc ad infinitum. I’m appalled that some here think that the proper response for Israel would have been to have the pigs over for Sunday tea to talk things over.. Guess what: that’s not going to happen. You don’t negotiate with a terrorist organization that is sworn to your utter destruction. You destroy them first.
Israel is going to take care of its own business-preferably with minimum collateral damage-but they WILL take care of their own defense.
As long as the pigs have the capacity to kill innocent Israelis the WW2 analogy stands.
If the pigs didn’t want war they should have picked on a smaller opponent. They poked the bear and now they will pay for it.
All bloodshed is on the hands of the pigs. The pigs must surrender to prevent more deaths on both sides.

 

[Serenity]

I try to stay focused on the human cost for all and it is significant.

I'l just repeat what I said in part in another thread. I support Israels right to defend herself. The hostages MUST be returned. That doesn't mean I will call for the death of all Palestinians.

I also make no apologies for stating Palestinian civilians don't have access to basic services and noting Health services are decimated. Hamas doesn't care but that doesn't mean other people can't care. I have much different standards to them. I also do not want to see Palestinian Civilians starve to death. Hoping for the mass death of civilians anywhere, represents a fundamental break with basic human decency.

Where possible I support saving lives. I won't advocate for the death of any civilians. Anywhere.

I'll just continue to stay human.

 

[Ethel2]

The military wing of the Hamas pigs:

The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (abbreviated as IQB;[12][note 1] Arabic: كتائب الشهيد عز الدين القسام, romanized: Katāib al-Shahīd 'izz ad-Dīn al-Qassām[citation needed], lit. 'Battalions of martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam'; often shortened to Al-Qassam Brigades[13]), named after Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, is the paramilitary wing of the Palestinian organization Hamas.[12][14][15] Currently led by Mohammed Deif, IQB is the largest and best-equipped militant group operating within Gaza today.[12]

Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[btthegreat]

Insisting on Israel agreeing to a ceasefire at this point is moronic And the UN has zero credibility on the issue considering that one of it's agencies was complicit in the attacks in Israel that began this war. A ceasefire at this point would simply allow HAMAS to regroup and rearm. It would be the equivalent of the world telling the USA to just stand down after the 9/11/01 attacks.

Hey if Israel can pursue its military objectives without killing off massive numbers of Palestinians via direct assault, collateral damage, starvation or disease, I would be delighted to see them pursue it. But they can't figure out how to get food to starving families, evacuate the local population, or provide access to medical to those in need and pursue those objectives. They have been using food as a weapon and engaging in collective punishment for months now. Israel is the defacto govt, since it has delegitimized the Hamas govt. That comes with obligations.

 

[sanman]

 

[dobieg]

At this point, the Government of Israel has not only killed 32,000 civilians, it has also brought half of them to the brink of starvation.

And Hamas is far from "eradicated".

That anyone considers this continuing carnage, this bloodbath, to be acceptable is appalling.

According to who? Hamas?

 

[Ethel2]

At this point, the Government of Israel has not only killed 32,000 civilians, it has also brought half of them to the brink of starvation.

And Hamas is far from "eradicated".

That anyone considers this continuing carnage, this bloodbath, to be acceptable is appalling.

You’re right!
The job is far from done.
The pigs must surrender
Only then can further bloodshed be avoided

 

[Geoist]

No.
Do you think the UN should send combat troops to the Ukraine?

The UN is not currently in any position to do such a thing.

But in a parallel universe where the UN is actually competent and doesn't just let any authoritarian nation in? Yes, there should be multinational democratic forces stepping in when other nation-states can't get their shit together.

 

[Zyphlin]

I think the world outside the American bubble got a hard dose of reality these past few months.

I could possibly buy everything your post was saying if there was anywhere near reasonably proportional comments, condemnation, and concern over a portion of the Palestinian “state” seeking to be made and that is controlling things currently in those areas.

For just one example, look at the political and media outcry and demand towards Bibi as it relates to calling for elections.

Then consider the significantly less concern or condemnation of the fact that the ruling party in Gaza, that is an abject terror organization and who by any poll the overwhelming majority of Gazans support, hasn't held elections in nearly 20 years.

Yet there continues to be a moral, ethical, and political equivalency between the two.

Forgive me, but when that sort of intellectual dishonesty by the general world population is practiced during these sorts of debates on the issue it leaves me less receptive to their supposed care of international law and fair play.

 

[snakestretcher]

I could possibly buy everything your post was saying if there was anywhere near reasonably proportional comments, condemnation, and concern over a portion of the Palestinian “state” seeking to be made and that is controlling things currently in those areas.

For just one example, look at the political and media outcry and demand towards Bibi as it relates to calling for elections.

Then consider the significantly less concern or condemnation of the fact that the ruling party in Gaza, that is an abject terror organization and who by any poll the overwhelming majority of Gazans support, hasn't held elections in nearly 20 years.

Yet there continues to be a moral, ethical, and political equivalency between the two.

Forgive me, but when that sort of intellectual dishonesty by the general world population is practiced during these sorts of debates on the issue it leaves me less receptive to their supposed care of international law and fair play.

It works both ways; the IDF have committed war crimes with apparent impunity, and Netanyahu is currently on trial for corruption, bribery, fraud and breach of trust. Nobody's hands are clean, and nobody can claim moral superiority in this conflict.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

As you know, all of the West Bank is on the Israeli side of the Israel-Jorban border, as Jordan ceded the WB to Israel.
Thus, Israel cannot "occupy" the West Bank.

Jordan did not cede the West Bank to Israel, it renounced its claim to the West Bank, but Jordan did claim the land (since 1950) and it was Jordan that lost the land in 1967.