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Israel Isolated as UN Security Council Demands Immediate Ceasefire in Gaza

btthegreat said:
Its long overdue. We have been isolating ourselves by using our veto to protect a country that simply does not care what the world believes, from what the world beleives.y That veto should only be used when our vital interests demand it, not when some other country might wish it. Up next, somehow finding the votes in Congress to stall or stop any military aid package to Israel so that Biden does not have to sign one. I don't how we can stop a israeli aid package, but I sure would like to.
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Insisting on Israel agreeing to a ceasefire at this point is moronic And the UN has zero credibility on the issue considering that one of it's agencies was complicit in the attacks in Israel that began this war. A ceasefire at this point would simply allow HAMAS to regroup and rearm. It would be the equivalent of the world telling the USA to just stand down after the 9/11/01 attacks.
 
Crunchtime said:
From the beginning Israel used the term “war”. The war between Israel and Hamas. Initially that term stood uncontested but now because war is brutal some folks are uncomfortable with its effects in Gaza. Gazans almost unanimously continue to support Hamas therefore are the enemies of Israel. If Hamas cared about Gazans they would release the hostages. Israel has every right to get them back.
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By killing women, children and the aged? That's some sick take, imho.
 
poppopfox said:
By killing women, children and the aged? That's some sick take, imho.
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That is why it is called WAR and not baseball. The purpose of war is to defeat the enemy and destroy their will to fight.
 
GOP Hippo said:
No I don't want to see the UN have a process to enforce resolutions. Not because I'm uncomfortable with force.

Who is in charge at the UN?
Who was in charge when the UN failed in Rwanda?
Who was in charge at UN when they stole funds selling Iranian oil?

The US military is as good as any in the world. If US forces see combat it should be for US interests.
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Don't you think a better world would have a democratic mix of nation-states enforcing democratic interests rather than a single super power enforcing its own personal interests?
 
Surrealistik said:
You can call it a war if you like; I'm not particularly interested or invested in the semantics here, though I will say that Israel has no 'right' to visit this level of indiscriminate devastation and collateral upon civilians which has cost it even America's typically unconditional backing at the UN.

Those who truly love Israel should understand that the US abstention is a wake up call to the fact that this war is seriously damaging the country's standing in the world, and is likely to eventually sever longstanding and significant ties at great expense to its future.
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What people understand is that Biden is desperate to win Michigan and is very willing to facilitate Holocaust 2.0 if it allows him to stay in power. Even willing to forget that more than 30 Americans were killed 10/7 and some are still hostages. Israel lost any soft power when Europe has become a bastion of Muslim immigration. Thus politicians their will be silent when Iran gets its way.

Surprised a majority Jewish state survived as long as it did. Just a matter of time until Canadians get their way.
 
washunut said:
What people understand is that Biden is desperate to win Michigan and is very willing to facilitate Holocaust 2.0 if it allows him to stay in power. Even willing to forget that more than 30 Americans were killed 10/7 and some are still hostages. Israel lost any soft power when Europe has become a bastion of Muslim immigration. Thus politicians their will be silent when Iran gets its way.

Surprised a majority Jewish state survived as long as it did. Just a matter of time until Canadians get their way.
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Deranged take utterly divorced from reality, especially since Europe staunchly supported Israel up until it butchered the people of Gaza and willfully deprived them of humanitarian aid on a longstanding and ongoing base.
 
Crunchtime said:
Laws of occupation? How so?
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For a start, building 'settlements'. The law of occupation states that the occupying power, in this case Israel, may not transfer a part or the whole of their population into occupied territory. Point 3, below:

Occupation and international humanitarian law: questions and answers

A series of questions and answers by the ICRC's legal team on what defines occupation, the laws that apply, how people are protected, and the ICRC's role.
www.icrc.org www.icrc.org
 
Surrealistik said:
You can call it a war if you like; I'm not particularly interested or invested in the semantics here, though I will say that Israel has no 'right' to visit this level of indiscriminate devastation and collateral upon civilians which has cost it even America's typically unconditional backing at the UN.

Those who truly love Israel should understand that the US abstention is a wake up call to the fact that this war is seriously damaging the country's standing in the world, and is likely to eventually sever longstanding and significant ties at great expense to its future.
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I doubt it. And love is never based upon other peoples opinions.
 
snakestretcher said:
For a start, building 'settlements'. The law of occupation states that the occupying power, in this case Israel, may not transfer a part or the whole of their population into occupied territory. Point 3, below:

Occupation and international humanitarian law: questions and answers

A series of questions and answers by the ICRC's legal team on what defines occupation, the laws that apply, how people are protected, and the ICRC's role.
www.icrc.org www.icrc.org
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Colonialism has been with us since Adam and Eve. Since Cain built a city. Borders have always been fluid. Mexico is in the process of taking back California now. And other states for that matter. Colonialism is part of life. If you don’t believe it look at the names of countries in the ME and their borders 100 years ago.
 
NolanVoyd said:
You are the one that said it was anti Semitic so of course I am asking you to explain your point
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I did by copying the quote. If you’re not sharp enough to see it that’s on you.
 
Crunchtime said:
Colonialism has been with us since Adam and Eve. Since Cain built a city. Borders have always been fluid. Mexico is in the process of taking back California now. And other states for that matter. Colonialism is part of life. If you don’t believe it look at the names of countries in the ME and their borders 100 years ago.
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So, it's legally acceptable for one nation to take over territory belonging to another country?
 
Absentglare said:
There is an element of ridiculousness in demanding a ceasefire of Israel while Hamas still holds innocent Israeli civilians hostage.

The hostages must be released. Then, Israel would be in a position to permit a ceasefire and an influx of sorely needed humanitarian aid.
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Why? Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for years. Why do you think that releasing the hostages would suddenly change that? I hate what has happened, and feel for the hostages, but if you were a Palestinian, why on earth would you expect releasing the hostages to help your case. Israel is untrustworthy and will ignore international pressure whenever it feels like it. Releasing the hostages is more likely to just speed up the Israeli theft of Palestinian lands.
Absentglare said:
Hamas should not be in charge of Gaza. But neither should Ali Khamenei be in charge of Iran, nor Vladimir Putin be in charge of Russia. The people of Gaza deserve a measure of self-determination, and Israel, too, deserves a better leader than Netanyahu.
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Zyphlin said:
Ever hear the Golden Rule rephrased as “treat others as THEY would like to be treated”? It’s based off the notion that too often we judge another’s actions or desires based on our own precepts of reality and logic as it relates to “rationality” and what is a sensible goal.

This is a problem that presents itself often in our domestic partisan politics as we seek to understand each other and voter motivation…but it is also instrumental to foreign policy because it’s too easy to fall into the trap that everyone thinks like us.

I say it may still be cunning on Hamas’s part because for them, a debilitating blow to Israel’s relationship with America and turning the tide of the international community completely against them may actually be viewed as an acceptable outcome in exchange for the ending of their organization as a practical sense. Think if it as organizational martyrdom. If they strike the lethal blow between the Israel and American alliance, then their work as an psuedo political suicide bomber would likely be looked at as a resounding success.
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I think the world outside the American bubble got a hard dose of reality these past few months. That reality is Israel's relentless and repeated violation of the laws, conventions and protocols that she, by having been invited into the UN club, swore to abide by and uphold. Israel's moral sympathy credit was already on shaky ground when Netanyahu's far-right Likud cabal took power and accelerated the strategies to evict, by increments, every last Arab from the land the Jews call Eretz Israel.
People are waking up to the fact that nuclear-armed Israel is not the poor, oppressed little country which propaganda claims and disseminates. It is fast becoming a pariah state.
 
Crunchtime said:
Colonialism has been with us since Adam and Eve. Since Cain built a city. Borders have always been fluid. Mexico is in the process of taking back California now. And other states for that matter. Colonialism is part of life. If you don’t believe it look at the names of countries in the ME and their borders 100 years ago.
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Argue with the lawmakers who made these laws, post-WW2. Using your rationale I could argue that, because Rome occupied Britain for 450 years, the Italians should be allowed to claim it back.
 
Pyrite said:
So, it's legally acceptable for one nation to take over territory belonging to another country?
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When did that make a difference? When the powers that be made up the nation of Israel they made their own laws.
 
LetsGoBrandon said:
And the UN has zero credibility on the issue considering that one of it's agencies was complicit in the attacks in Israel that began this war.
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That is false and has been thoroughly debunked.
 
poppopfox said:
By killing women, children and the aged? That's some sick take, imho.
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Hamas was and is elected. War has consequences. Ask Hitler.
 
Ishm said:
Why? Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for years. Why do you think that releasing the hostages would suddenly change that? I hate what has happened, and feel for the hostages, but if you were a Palestinian, why on earth would you expect releasing the hostages to help your case. Israel is untrustworthy and will ignore international pressure whenever it feels like it. Releasing the hostages is more likely to just speed up the Israeli theft of Palestinian lands.
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Innocent civilians must be released. Doing so will not resolve any land dispute, but it is a necessary step on the road to a lasting ceasefire.
 
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