Hamas are trying to kill Israelis
Palestinians have a higher Per Capita GDP than Jordan and Egypt and they receive more in international aid than any country on the planet.
134 Egypt $ 6,000 - 2009 est.
139 Jordan $ 5,300 - 2009 est.
166 West Bank $ 2,900 - 2008 est.
Palestinians are actually within the top 10 obese peoples in the world. They are not starving.
Israel allows merchant goods in as well and that is in addittion to the aid that is allowed through.
So are Americans responsible for the actions of their leaders? That is the same logic bin Laden used when he tried to justify 9/11.Don't think I'm without sympathy for Gazans. However, they elected Hamas, they support Hamas, they defend Hamas, and ultimately they are responsible for the actions of their leaders. I'm completely familiar with the old shell game of "it's not Palestinians, it's Hamas."
Hamas is responsible for Hamas. Why can't you leave it at that? And the things most people seem to forget is that close to half of Gaza's population could not even vote when Hamas won parliamentary elections.If we start from the assumption that Palestinians are not responsible for Hamas, and not responsible for the terrorist acts of Hamas, then we should conclude that Hamas is responsible for the suffering of its own people, and conclude that Hamas must be removed by force if necessary in order to free Gaza.
Kaya, you are debating with Grant/Picaro/Ferris. Are you expecting s/he is likely to accept your points?
World's Fattest Countries - Forbes.com
Odd. They don't appear to be in the top ten.
They also don't appear to be in the top 50.
In fact, they don't appear to be on the list at all, WTF?
Palestine doesn't appear to be in the fattest 194 countries.
Israel's number 50.
Maybe Palestine's not listed because it's not considered a country.
Maybe the list-makers count it as part of Israel.
Either way, you'd think if Palestinians were that obese, they'd appear on there in some way, shape, or form.
Maybe it's a big Islamic conspiracy to make the US and Israel look fat and stupid, do you think?
So are Americans responsible for the actions of their leaders? That is the same logic bin Laden used when he tried to justify 9/11.
Hamas is responsible for Hamas. Why can't you leave it at that? And the things most people seem to forget is that close to half of Gaza's population could not even vote when Hamas won parliamentary elections.
Should we debate whether the sun rises up in the West?
World's Fattest Countries - Forbes.com
Odd. They don't appear to be in the top ten.
They also don't appear to be in the top 50.
In fact, they don't appear to be on the list at all, WTF?
Palestine doesn't appear to be in the fattest 194 countries.
Israel's number 50.
Maybe Palestine's not listed because it's not considered a country.
Maybe the list-makers count it as part of Israel.
Either way, you'd think if Palestinians were that obese, they'd appear on there in some way, shape, or form.
Maybe it's a big Islamic conspiracy to make the US and Israel look fat and stupid, do you think?
GDP (purchasing power parity - PPP): $11.95 billion (2008 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $6.641 billion (2008 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 0.8% (2008 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $2,900 (2008 est.)
GDP ( purchasing power parity - PPP): $444.8 billion (2008 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate): $162.6 billion (2008 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 7.2% (2008 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP): $5,800 (2008 est.)
Meh Palestinians receive almost as much in international aid Per Capita as the entire per capita GDP of Egypt, at least according to the GDP Per Capita stats of the World Bank.
Why should they be degraded to the point where economic survival only becomes possible through AID? I see no good in any of this.
Can hardly blame them voting Hamas out of fustration though would rather not make any attempts to justify it since that is not possible.
Kaya, you are debating with Grant/Picaro/Ferris. Are you expecting s/he is likely to accept your points?
It's got to do with what you said. This situation was completely different from previous humanitarian flotillas. This flotilla wanted a violent confrontation.
-- This is not a psychological weapon the only reason why more Israelis aren't killed is because their homes have to have bomb shelters and they have a early warning mechanism, if they didn't tens of thousands would be killed, if these rockets were fired into the U.S. for or U.K. for example they would result in many many more casualties.
-- The food stuffs would have made it in, the reason why concrete is banned is because Hamas uses it to create bunkers and tunnels for arms smuggeling. Israel is perfectly justified in not letting in the concrete.
-- This wasn't just some of the protestors, 3 of the ships were owned and operated by the jihadist affiliated IHH.
Palestinians are actually within the top 10 obese peoples in the world. They are not starving.
Israel allows merchant goods in as well and that is in addittion to the aid that is allowed through.
Don't think I'm without sympathy for Gazans. However, they elected Hamas, they support Hamas
-- they defend Hamas
-- and ultimately they are responsible for the actions of their leaders. I'm completely familiar with the old shell game of "it's not Palestinians, it's Hamas."
-- we should conclude that Hamas is responsible for the suffering of its own people, and conclude that Hamas must be removed by force if necessary in order to free Gaza.
It is the view that you are trying to impose. It is the same viewpoint bin Laden used when he said American civilians are faIr game because they elect their president. If these two countries are at war, then Israel has no right to complain about rockets being fired into Israel. That is war, after all.That is a narrow and convenient view that tries unsuccessfully to shift responsibility. When two countries are at war, do you suppose it is only the governments which oppose each other?
How many Hamas militants were killed in relation to how many civilians were killed? Israel may not target civilians, but minimizing civilian casualities is a bold claim that is contradicted by their actions.Ironically, it is the Hamas leadership which targets civilians, while Israel does all it can to minimize civilian casualties. Your premise is so absurd as to be laughable. Should we debate whether the sun rises up in the West?
It is the view that you are trying to impose. It is the same viewpoint bin Laden used when he said American civilians are faIr game because they elect their president. If these two countries are at war, then Israel has no right to complain about rockets being fired into Israel. That is war, after all.
How many Hamas militants were killed in relation to how many civilians were killed? Israel may not target civilians, but minimizing civilian casualities is a bold claim that is contradicted by their actions.
Source?
I don't agree that just as I wouldn't agree any electorate being held responsible for the misdeeds of the leaders they elect.
And I don't hear anyone being too careful when they accuse "Israel" of genocide.
Such statements have the ring of "don't blame us, we were only following orders." We're judged by our actions, not by our motives. Otherwise you get the "ends justify the means" argument that so many people use to excuse the violent acts of terrorists.
If Hamas is a bloody terrorist group that doesn't reflect Palestinian society, then Hamas should be removed before it causes the eventual and inevitable destruction of Gaza. We don't need a million martyrs. Take the dog and pony show somewhere else.
I agree, but aren't the Palestinians biting the hand that feeds then so to speak. What I am saying is that Israel isn't the provocateur in this conflicts. All the Palestinians have to do is sit down and discuss peace, Israel has already shown that it's willing to concede up to 90 percent of the Palestinians demands.And even then the absurd prices of basic commodities go beyond what most Palestinians can afford. Computers? Chocolates? Come on. Nobody wants to live like that.
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