Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves[W:19]

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

“PRODUCTION VS DESTRUCTION” PART 2

About 100,000 West Bank Palestinian families rely on their olive trees for their livelihood & have done so for Generations.

Those Palestinian homes, farms and crops that are not destroyed by the Occupying Regime are at the mercy of illegal Settlers with their ISIS-like obsession for destruction of all traces of the Native Palestinian community:
. . . . . . .

“Most settlement outposts, including Havat Ma'on (Hill 833), are also considered illegal also under Israeli law, but even these are mostly tolerated by the authorities and protected from attempts by Palestinians to reclaim their land.” (4)

The criminality of the Netanyahu Regime & its pampered & protected outlaw Settlers is blatant on many fronts:


“The destruction of the olive trees is also a specific violation of Article 54 of the 1977 Protocol to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, which prohibits the "starvation of civilians as a method of warfare". It states:
"It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs,[ list cont.] for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive." (4)



Meanwhile:
““Israel's police forces almost never locate suspects and bring them to justice” (3)

The destruction of Palestinian olive groves is clearly a War Crime on many fronts & in violation of various International Laws and all standards of any civilized society

Some are:


"-the Paris Protocols:
According to the World Bank, the uprooting of olive trees violates the trade policies of the Paris protocols of 1954 which calls for “free access for Palestinian goods to the Israeli market and vice versa.” The curfews and the uprooting are a clear violation of this clear security

- the Hague Convention:
In addition, the uprooting and the closures are a clear violation of Article 23 of the Hague convention, Which makes it clear that it forbidden to destroy or seize the enemy's property,

- the Geneva Convention:
Land Leveling and property destruction carried out by the Israeli occupying forces violate the Fourth Geneva Convention and is a war crime under the convention and the protocols additional to the convention.
Article 33 prohibits collective punishment, and land leveling and property destruction carried out by Israeli forces are collective punishments...... and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.”

Article 147 of the Connection considers “extensive destruction and appropriate of property,.... and thus constitute a war crime.

-the Covenant on Economics, Social or Cultural Rights:
 Article 1: “in no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.” 
Article 5 does not give any state, group or person any right to “engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights or freedoms recognized herein..” (*)
. . . . . . . . . .

In spite of the efforts & photographic evidence presented by B’tselem & other brave Israeli individuals & Organizations, they are up against an increasingly violent Right Wing element that continues to place Israel among the worst Human Rights abusers in the world:

“Attacks on journalists and artists and pro-war rallies in Israel point to growing far-Right extremism fuelled by nation's politicians as much as conflict with Hamas
Israelis who speak out against the assault on Gaza or in favour of a ceasefire with Hamas are increasingly facing violence or even death threats as tensions continue to rise in the country.”(6)





(*)“Uprooting Olive Trees in Palestine”
Uprooting Olive Trees


3. “STUDY: 96% OF DESTRUCTION OF PALESTINIAN OLIVE TREE CASES FALL APART DUE TO POLICE INCOMPETENCE”
Study: 96% of destruction of Palestinian olive tree cases fall apart due to police incompetence - Arab-Israeli Conflict - Jerusalem Post
EXCERPT”.....Palestinian olive trees in the West Bank, “Israel's police forces almost never locate suspects and bring them to justice”CONTINUED

4. “Arboricide in Palestine - olive orchard destroyed”
Arboricide in Palestine - olive orchard destroyed - The Ecologist

5. “B'Tselem | The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the ...
www.btselem.org/‎
EXCERPT “Endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories,.....CONT..

6.“Far-Right extremism on the rise in Israel as Gaza conflict continues”
Far-Right extremism on the rise in Israel as Gaza conflict continues - Telegraph

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

“PRODUCTION VS DESTRUCTION” PART 2

About 100,000 West Bank Palestinian families rely on their olive trees for their livelihood & have done so for Generations.

Those Palestinian homes, farms and crops that are not destroyed by the Occupying Regime are at the mercy of illegal Settlers with their ISIS-like obsession for destruction of all traces of the Native Palestinian community:
. . . . . . .

“Most settlement outposts, including Havat Ma'on (Hill 833), are also considered illegal also under Israeli law, but even these are mostly tolerated by the authorities and protected from attempts by Palestinians to reclaim their land.” (4)

The criminality of the Netanyahu Regime & its pampered & protected outlaw Settlers is blatant on many fronts:


“The destruction of the olive trees is also a specific violation of Article 54 of the 1977 Protocol to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, which prohibits the "starvation of civilians as a method of warfare". It states:
"It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs,[ list cont.] for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive." (4)



Meanwhile:
““Israel's police forces almost never locate suspects and bring them to justice” (3)

The destruction of Palestinian olive groves is clearly a War Crime on many fronts & in violation of various International Laws and all standards of any civilized society

Some are:


"-the Paris Protocols:
According to the World Bank, the uprooting of olive trees violates the trade policies of the Paris protocols of 1954 which calls for “free access for Palestinian goods to the Israeli market and vice versa.” The curfews and the uprooting are a clear violation of this clear security

- the Hague Convention:
In addition, the uprooting and the closures are a clear violation of Article 23 of the Hague convention, Which makes it clear that it forbidden to destroy or seize the enemy's property,

- the Geneva Convention:
Land Leveling and property destruction carried out by the Israeli occupying forces violate the Fourth Geneva Convention and is a war crime under the convention and the protocols additional to the convention.
Article 33 prohibits collective punishment, and land leveling and property destruction carried out by Israeli forces are collective punishments...... and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.”

Article 147 of the Connection considers “extensive destruction and appropriate of property,.... and thus constitute a war crime.

-the Covenant on Economics, Social or Cultural Rights:
 Article 1: “in no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.” 
Article 5 does not give any state, group or person any right to “engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights or freedoms recognized herein..” (*)
. . . . . . . . . .

In spite of the efforts & photographic evidence presented by B’tselem & other brave Israeli individuals & Organizations, they are up against an increasingly violent Right Wing element that continues to place Israel among the worst Human Rights abusers in the world:

“Attacks on journalists and artists and pro-war rallies in Israel point to growing far-Right extremism fuelled by nation's politicians as much as conflict with Hamas
Israelis who speak out against the assault on Gaza or in favour of a ceasefire with Hamas are increasingly facing violence or even death threats as tensions continue to rise in the country.”(6)





(*)“Uprooting Olive Trees in Palestine”
Uprooting Olive Trees


3. “STUDY: 96% OF DESTRUCTION OF PALESTINIAN OLIVE TREE CASES FALL APART DUE TO POLICE INCOMPETENCE”
Study: 96% of destruction of Palestinian olive tree cases fall apart due to police incompetence - Arab-Israeli Conflict - Jerusalem Post
EXCERPT”.....Palestinian olive trees in the West Bank, “Israel's police forces almost never locate suspects and bring them to justice”CONTINUED

4. “Arboricide in Palestine - olive orchard destroyed”
Arboricide in Palestine - olive orchard destroyed - The Ecologist

5. “B'Tselem | The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the ...
B'Tselem | The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
EXCERPT “Endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories,.....CONT..

6.“Far-Right extremism on the rise in Israel as Gaza conflict continues”
Far-Right extremism on the rise in Israel as Gaza conflict continues - Telegraph

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Nice try - but - no. Parse words all you like, white phosphorus is not a banned chemical weapon. It is not a WMD.



Your Smith is a fantasy. Never happen.



"A respected Hamas publication?" Did you actually say that.

There went any shred of credibility you might have had.

==========================
For the THIRD time:

The deployment of White Phosphorus in unpopulated areas for the puropse of illumination is legal

HOWEVER

It is the WAY in which Israel is using W.P. ON CIVILIANS & civilian neighborhood that is illegal:




“”Israel’s Illegal Use of White Phosphorus During ‘Operation Cast Lead’
“And How the U.S. Media Tries to Cover Up Israeli War Crimes”

Israel
EXCERPT “Mr. Garlasco, a senior military analyst for New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), says that the way Israel is using the incendiary device is illegal….
But Garlasco says that phosphorus is clearly being used in the Jabaliya refugee camp, one of the most crowded areas in Gaza. “I can see them; we are very certain, whatever the Israeli Defense Forces may say, that white phosphorus is being used….”[11]CONTINUED


Please quit trying to pass off a deliberate deception.

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

MULTIPLE POSTS ARE UNINTENTIONAL



Sorry

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

==========================
For the THIRD time:

The deployment of White Phosphorus in unpopulated areas for the puropse of illumination is legal

HOWEVER

It is the WAY in which Israel is using W.P. ON CIVILIANS & civilian neighborhood that is illegal:




“”Israel’s Illegal Use of White Phosphorus During ‘Operation Cast Lead’
“And How the U.S. Media Tries to Cover Up Israeli War Crimes”

Israel
EXCERPT “Mr. Garlasco, a senior military analyst for New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), says that the way Israel is using the incendiary device is illegal….
But Garlasco says that phosphorus is clearly being used in the Jabaliya refugee camp, one of the most crowded areas in Gaza. “I can see them; we are very certain, whatever the Israeli Defense Forces may say, that white phosphorus is being used….”[11]CONTINUED


Please quit trying to pass off a deliberate deception.

The deception is all yours, my friend.

International law does NOT prohibit the use of White Phosphorus. The reason it was occasionally used in civilian areas is because Hamas fired rockets from those areas, which make those areas VALID targets. No law was broken. You've been proven wrong on each and every one of your claims.

The IDF warns civilians when an attack is going to take place in a civilian area, by calling, dropping leaflets and knock bombs. We have video proof that Hamas sent civilians to the areas marked for attack so they could have as many casualties as possible. The real war criminals are Hamas.

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Lead is a chemical. Therefore a lead bullet is a chemical weapon.



I'm surprised at the hating I see here. If Smith owned farm land, and his neighbor planted an orchard on several acres of it without his permission, wouldn't Smith, if he were a decent person, just let the neighbor keep those several acres as a gesture of friendship? After all, Smith has already got enough land--why should he be so selfish and greedy as to begrudge a few acres of it to the neighbor?

.

Before Palestine was invaded by distant European & US Zionist Terrorist Gangs who brought with them Western Land property laws, & an obsession with grasping, relentless Expansion, Palestine's Native populace had gone by Regional property customs which were more communal for everyone for generations. Property rights were far more flexible than the Foreign Western notions of Private Property for the benefit of everyone.

If you'll compare a map of 1947 to one of today, you'll see how much Palestinian land has been annexed, confiscated & ruthlessly grabbed from Palestine's Native Population. The Foreign Zionist invaders confiscated more farmland than they planted.

Since 1967, Israelis have destroyed approximately 800,000 Olive Trees, alone. That does not include almond trees & other crops. Does that sound like a Culture that really "Made the desert bloom"?

In this case, the Palestinian Farmers planted the trees 5 years ago & Israel confiscated the land & posted the signs after the trees had been carefully tended there for 2 years. If it were really about an important few acres of land, the Israelis should have acted earlier. Instead, they chose to wait to commit their hateful War Crimes after the most time & effort had put into trees that live to be 400+ years old:

“PALESTINE: JEWISH SETTLERS TORCH 100 OF WORLD’S OLDEST OLIVE TREES”
Palestine: Jewish Settlers Torch 100 of World's Oldest Olive Trees

EXCERPT "Israeli settlers in the northern occupied West Bank have razed to the ground huge swathes of Palestinian-owned agricultural land in the town of Huwara, according to reports.

Olive trees in Israel hold vast religious and cultural significance to both Jews and Palestinians. As well as being the livelihood of many Palestinian farmers, the trees are thought to be the "oldest on Earth" and are mentioned in the Old Testament numerous times.

Olive trees in the Garden of Gethsemane near the Old City of Jerusalem are believed to be up to 900 years old and belong to the same lineage as the olive trees among which Jesus Christ prayed the night before his crucifixion.
The mayor of Huwara said that Israeli occupation forces prevented Palestinian citizens from reaching the lands in order to extinguish the fire."CONTINUED


Because "Smith" does own a Farm, he knows how much time & effort goes into planting fruit trees. The first few years is when they are the most vulnerable & require the most attention. You should try it so you won't dismiss the hard work so freely.

By the way, "Smith" does allow his neighbors to farm acres, graze their cows, use his water & tools for free because "You reap what you sow" in many ways. It's only a matter of time before the Israelis discover that reality

 

[Peter Grimm]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

--------------------
You can't be serious.


Your sentiments are as cruel as they are naive.

Palestine's Native Population has been farming that land for Generations, long before the invasion of Foreign Zionist Terrorist Gangs from Europe, the US, Poland etc etc.

Only ONE of those who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence was from the Region. The Rest were from far, far away, were clueless about the existing population but were Foreign Funded & heavily armed.



As an educational project, you should consider studying how one gets a "Permit" to build or plant ANYTHING from the most ruthless, criminal & heavily funded Occupier in modern history.

Guess how many Permits are granted to Palestinians to plant or build ANYTHING?


The illegal Chemical & Radioactive ordinance that IDF has spread through Palestine has rendered most available land unfit for wells or cultivation all of which is intended to cause slow, painful deaths for generations.

“Gaza Under Siege: Israel Destroys Hospitals, Denies Entry to Doctors and Medical Aid”
Gaza Under Siege: Israel Destroys Hospitals, Denies Entry to Doctors and Medical Aid | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

EXCERPT " Gaza was shelled with tons of ammunition and depleted uranium which not only kill immediately but leave*residues which emit radioactive rays causing malformations in utero and *miscarriages . And this will continue despite repeated ceasefires. Gazans want to rebuild their broken homes but building materials are blockaded.

People have no choice but to rebuild their broken homes with rubble contaminated with radioactive uranium as the siege continues. What do you*want them to do?
They have no choice but to rebuild their homes over mounds of destruction and ‘nuclear’ waste. Even if the war stops, these rays will have an impact on people’s lives.CONTINUED


AND


GENOTOXIC, CARCINOGENIC WEAPON OF DESTRUCTION
https://cintayati.wordpress.com/201...out-the-dime-weapons-israel-is-using-on-gaza/

EXCERPT "Scientific studies have found that HMTA is chemically toxic, damages the immune system, rapidly causes cancer, and attacks DNA (genotoxic).[6-13] It is unfortunate that the US media have virtually blacked out the story of Israel’s new weapon"CONTINUED




When was the last time you went a day without food or water?

Why don't they migrate to Egypt?

 

[matchlight]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Olive trees in Israel hold vast religious and cultural significance to both Jews and Palestinians. As well as being the livelihood of many Palestinian farmers, the trees are thought to be the "oldest on Earth" and are mentioned in the Old Testament numerous times.

Olive trees in the Garden of Gethsemane near the Old City of Jerusalem are believed to be up to 900 years old and belong to the same lineage as the olive trees among which Jesus Christ prayed the night before his crucifixion.

That's nice. But I can't stand olives. I hate olive oil, too--always has that olive-y aftertaste. I hate those ugly leaves on the trees and all that mess the damned olives make on the pavement. And the pollen is notorious--most people have allergic reactions to it. Chop down every last olive tree there is and make firewood of it, for all of me!

Because "Smith" does own a Farm, he knows how much time & effort goes into planting fruit trees.

You don't know the first thing about Smith. In fact, he only bought the farm land because some spliffed-out chick he met at a party told him she heard it would get him a tax break, has hired crooks and incompetents who mismanage everything, has never laid eyes on the land, and hates fruit, unless it's in an alcoholic drink. And Smith doesn't give a fig about farming.

You should try it so you won't dismiss the hard work so freely.

No thanks. Hard work is for other poor saps. I like to take it easy, like Smith.

By the way, "Smith" does allow his neighbors to farm acres, graze their cows, use his water & tools for free because "You reap what you sow" in many ways.

By the way, I'm the one who made Smith up, and I will say what he does and does not do. He's a damned fool who inherited a vast fortune as is fast frittering it away by doing incomprehensibly dumb things like letting other people steal his land without even knowing (or much caring) that they've done it. All Smith is interested in is lying on the beach, drinking, and cavorting with pretty women.[/QUOTE]

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

If you'll compare a map of 1947 to one of today, you'll see how much Palestinian land has been annexed, confiscated & ruthlessly grabbed from Palestine's Native Population. The Foreign Zionist invaders confiscated more farmland than they planted.

That was then - this is now. Step in to the present.

If you compare a map of the Holy Land from 2000 ago, you'll find that the ancestors of today's Jews, the Hebrews, owned and control a much larger area than they do now.

That was then - this is now. Step in to the present.

The reality is - Israel will never go back to the pre-67 borders and any "deal" with that stipulation will be turned down. Any Palestinians planting or squatting on State land will be removed. Deal with it. They know better and so do you. There will never be a Right of Return.

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Nice try - but - no. Parse words all you like, white phosphorus is not a banned chemical weapon. It is not a WMD.



Your Smith is a fantasy. Never happen.



"A respected Hamas publication?" Did you actually say that.

There went any shred of credibility you might have had.

_____________________________

For the FOUTH time, Israel targeted civilians with W.P. in addition to Genotoxic, Radioactive & other EXPERIMENTAL Chemical weapons that turn human flesh into "jelly"
A terrorist State that will use one illegal, experimental, chemical weapons will use many.

Gaza is too crowded for anyone to hide anywhere

AND

Your blaming Hamas for everything is an old Hasbara line that doesn't work any more:


"Luntz tells advocates to ...trot out the constant line about Hamas using human shields."(1)


“Medical personnel claim Israel tested new weapons during attacks on Gaza”
Medical personnel claim Israel tested new weapons during attacks on Gaza

EXCERPT ". “I saw more than a dozen bodies that looked normal, with no marks or wounds. But when we touched them they were slippery. If you tried to pick them up, the flesh fell off like jelly. We had to roll them in blankets.”

. “In previous wars, we could treat most of the wounded,” says Dr Skaik. “This time, the number and magnitude of wounds was far greater. One third were dead on arrival.”CONTINUED

. . . . . .

“Israel uses banned weapons in striking Gaza: Official”
Israel uses banned weapons in striking Gaza: Official | Middle East | Worldbulletin News

EXCERPT “He accused Israel of using banned weapons in striking the Gaza Strip, home to 1.8 million Palestinians.
"Medical teams have found wounds on the bodies of those killed and injured that are caused by the banned DIME weapons," the Palestinian official said.
"Foreign doctors in Gaza have confirmed that Israeli missiles and shells are destructive and internationally banned," he added.
Abul Resh cited that about 40 percent of those killed in ongoing Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strips were women and children.
"Children and women make up around 62 percent of those injured in the attacks,"CONTINUED

. . . . . . .

“Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs on Gazans”
Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs on Gazans | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

EXCERPT “Latest reports say Israeli aerial and ground forces are using white phosphorus bombs to pound several residential areas across the besieged Gaza Strip.
The lethal bombs violate all international conventions and are considered as banned weapons in civilian areas.
This comes as a Norwegian doctor in the besieged coastal enclave has recently criticized Israel for using cancer-inducing bombs against Palestinian civilians.
Medics say some Palestinians in the besieged enclave have been wounded by a new type of weapon that even doctors with previous experience in war zones do not recognize.
Israel also used depleted-uranium and white phosphorus shells in the besieged region during their previous assaults.”CONTINUED

. . . . . . .


I can document my assertions.......you can't


(1) “Frank Luntz’s latest hasbara talking points – how to defend Israel post-Gaza”

Frank Luntz’s latest hasbara talking points – how to defend Israel post-Gaza | MuzzleWatch
EXCERPT " Luntz tells advocates to ...trot out the constant line about Hamas using human shields. He instructs hasbarists to use human, emotional, heart-felt language. He tells his followers to blame Palestinian rejectionism for Palestinian suffering, and to divert questions away from the realities of Israel occupation and repression.”CONTINUED

 

[B'smith]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

That was then - this is now. Step in to the present.

If you compare a map of the Holy Land from 2000 ago, you'll find that the ancestors of today's Jews, the Hebrews, owned and control a much larger area than they do now.

That was then - this is now. Step in to the present.

The reality is - Israel will never go back to the pre-67 borders and any "deal" with that stipulation will be turned down. Any Palestinians planting or squatting on State land will be removed. Deal with it. They know better and so do you. There will never be a Right of Return.

We're getting Off-Topic again, but:

Today's Ashkenazi Israelis are primarily from or descended from Russia, Europe, Brooklyn etc and have about the same genetic connection to Ancient Hebrews as the Eskimos.

For Example, of the 37 Zionists/Jews who signed Israel's declaration of Independence, only ONE came from the Region.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

We're getting Off-Topic again, but:

Today's Ashkenazi Israelis are primarily from or descended from Russia, Europe, Brooklyn etc and have about the same genetic connection to Ancient Hebrews as the Eskimos.

For Example, of the 37 Zionists/Jews who signed Israel's declaration of Independence, only ONE came from the Region.

I've got an idea: let's repatriate everybody back to Africa. Everyone's DNA is sure to have originated there.

 

[Hyena]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

We're getting Off-Topic again, but:

Today's Ashkenazi Israelis are primarily from or descended from Russia, Europe, Brooklyn etc and have about the same genetic connection to Ancient Hebrews as the Eskimos.

For Example, of the 37 Zionists/Jews who signed Israel's declaration of Independence, only ONE came from the Region.

So why not to send all the arabs back to the Arabian Peninsula?
Oh no, that would be racist...

 

[alexa]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

So why not to send all the arabs back to the Arabian Peninsula?
Oh no, that would be racist...

As you can see from the Palestinian Papers the suggestions were to South Africa, to Argentina and to Chile

Papers reveal how Palestinian leaders gave up fight over refugees | World news | The Guardian

However by calling them Arabs you appear to be going to genetics. On that most of the Palestinians have a stronger link to the ancient Jews than any current Jews.

Behar's study, which is the most detailed, revealed that most Jewish populations (except Ethiopian and Indian Jews who are more closely related to their host populations) form a cluster with modern Middle-Eastern populations. There are actually three Jewish sub-clusters, one including Ashkenazi and Sephardi populations, another including Iraqi, Iranian and Caucasian Jews, and a third comprising Yemeni Jews. Remarkably, the Palestinian sub-cluster is located exactly in the middle of the three Jewish sub-clusters, suggesting that modern Palestinians are possibly even more closely related genetically to the ancient Hebrews than many modern Jews. In addition, any of the three Jewish sub-clusters is closer to the Palestinian sub-cluster than to the other two Jewish sub-clusters. This implies that if one considers Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Iraqi, Iranian, Caucasus and Yemeni Jews to all be part of the same Jewish people, then, from a genetic point of view, the Palestinians are an integral part of it.

Genetic studies bring new hope for peace between Jews and Palestinians

 

[alexa]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

To bring this back on topic. People are claiming that Israel has every right to do this because it is State Land. Israel is illegally claiming State Land. This happens all the time. Here Britain is complaining about a different occasion last year

Britain 'deplores' Israel decision to claim West Bank land

The British government said on Monday it deplored an Israeli decision to appropriate a large swathe of land inside the occupied West Bank, saying the move would seriously damage Israel's international reputation.

Britain 'deplores' Israel decision to claim West Bank land | Reuters

As for the ways in which Israel manages to wrongly claim to her citizens this is state land, B'Tselem goes into this in detail

Taking over Palestinian land by declaring it "state land"

Under the Guise of Legality
Israel's Declarations of State Land in the West Bank

You can find more links on the subject here

Search | B'Tselem

Whether it is a war crime I am not sure but I would think very likely.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

We're getting Off-Topic again, but:

Today's Ashkenazi Israelis are primarily from or descended from Russia, Europe, Brooklyn etc and have about the same genetic connection to Ancient Hebrews as the Eskimos.

For Example, of the 37 Zionists/Jews who signed Israel's declaration of Independence, only ONE came from the Region.

That is somewhat true, I'm just pointing out that the land has changed ownership from the earliest time to the present and that none of those times matter to what is happening in the present. Not 2000 years ago - not 75 years ago. All of that has to be set aside.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

_____________________________



I can document my assertions.......you can't

I believe you THINK you're documenting - but you're not. You're posting from opinion pieces and propaganda sites. If you want to truly document, you have to cite unbiased sources that report only facts - not emotionally charged hype.

You've got some journalist who thinks he's made a case for the illegal use of White Phosphorus. The international community does not agree.

All you're doing is spewing biased propaganda.

It's been explained to you - ad nauseum - why the trees are bulldozed. Israel has every right to bulldoze them. You don't recognize that. I have to keep correcting your mistakes and, even then, you don't admit they are mistakes. Early on - you claimed the blockade was criminal - it's actually legal.

I fully expect you to respond with more copy/paste from biased, propaganda sites. What you don't seem to understand is that just because there are sites and journalists out there that will concoct tall tales and slanted stories that you like - that doesn't make those sites or journalists correct. It doesn't make you correct.

And, it sure doesn't rise to the level of "documentation."

 

[Anomalism]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Israel has every right to bulldoze them.

Who gave Israel that right?

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

Who gave Israel that right?

A defensive war in 67, in which they pushed back those intending to kill them. That's Israeli land now. Just as the United States pushed back the Mexicans and folks in Texas still chant, "remember the Alamo."

Wars happen. Borders change. Even today - look at Crimea.

 

[alexa]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

A defensive war in 67, in which they pushed back those intending to kill them. That's Israeli land now. Just as the United States pushed back the Mexicans and folks in Texas still chant, "remember the Alamo."

Wars happen. Borders change. Even today - look at Crimea.

By your law but not by International Law. Why does Israel stay in the UN, or is allowed to stay in the UN when she outcasts herself by refusing to abide by International Law? That is what is catching up with her.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

By your law but not by International Law. Why does Israel stay in the UN, or is allowed to stay in the UN when she outcasts herself by refusing to abide by International Law? That is what is catching up with her.

The US and many other nations do not follow every part of International law.

You know why?

Because each nation must do what best protects it.

 

[alexa]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

The US and many other nations do not follow every part of International law.

You know why?

Because each nation must do what best protects it.

Well I am not denying that the reason why Israel has not been punished is because of the US and to a lesser extent but none the less devastating the EU as I mention in this post

http://www.debatepolitics.com/israe...l-not-negotiable-w-29-a-5.html#post1064710725

It is clear from what you write that you believe in Colonialism, that the indigenous people have no right to rights and that International Law is irrelevant. To you it is all to do with the might is right and what a hell of a mess that attitude has got us in.

9/11 happened because of the US's stance towards Israel as we have said supporting Israel going against International law against the indigenous people of Palestine, in Israel's attempt to take over all of Eretz Israel. The US's 'war against terrorism' gave rise to ISIS and terrorism in numbers and a manner none of us could ever have believed possible. The number one reason given for joining ISIS is the situation of the Palestinians. It shows us what a world without law is like.

However I think the US also recognises that the West Bank and Gaza are occupied. That is why historically it has demanded a cease fire on 67 lines with minor adjustments.



Going back to the topic, I refer you to post 40

http://www.debatepolitics.com/israe...ian-olive-groves-w-19-a-4.html#post1064732810

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

It is clear from what you write that you believe in Colonialism, that the indigenous people have no right to rights and that International Law is irrelevant. To you it is all to do with the might is right and what a hell of a mess that attitude has got us in.

9/11 happened because of the US's stance towards Israel as we have said supporting Israel going against International law against the indigenous people of Palestine, in Israel's attempt to take over all of Eretz Israel. The US's 'war against terrorism' gave rise to ISIS and terrorism in numbers and a manner none of us could ever have believed possible. The number one reason given for joining ISIS is the situation of the Palestinians. It shows us what a world without law is like.

I don't "believe" in Colonialism - it's not a faith after all. I accept that it exists and that every nation in the world has at one time or another perpetrated it or lost land because of it. It's just a fact - but to point to Israel and say, "But no - we can't accept it here," is selective and short-sighted.

However I think the US also recognises that the West Bank and Gaza are occupied. That is why historically it has demanded a cease fire on 67 lines with minor adjustments.

Yes, to some extent, occupation is accepted terminology, but you're wrong when you say there have been demands to return to the 67 borders with "minor" adjustments. The adjustments have been major and the US has never demanded that Israel accept them. The US has agreed with Israel that to get too close to those borders would put Israel at great risk.

There can be a two-state solution, but it can't be on the pre-67 borders and it can't include a Right of Return. Both of those are suicide for Israel and, therefore, unacceptable.

No nation will follow international law - if following it means suicide for that nation.

Certainly, that is understandable.

 

[alexa]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

I don't "believe" in Colonialism - it's not a faith after all.

You support Israel doing it and believe that the indigenous people of Palestine have no rights.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/israe...ian-olive-groves-w-19-a-5.html#post1064732893

I

I accept that it exists and that every nation in the world has at one time or another perpetrated it or lost land because of it. It's just a fact - but to point to Israel and say, "But no - we can't accept it here," is selective and short-sighted.

Nice try. You are supporting colonisation. In the past everyone who ever was colonised fought back against it using any and every trick they could get and usually managed to send the colonisers home.

These things however were before the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Geneva Convention and other new rules of war.

Hence we go back to you personally not believing in the rule of law and having a personal interest in supporting colonisation even if it is only Israel that you support doing it as well as a lack of conscience as to the suffering this causes. You are not a person who believes in Universal Human Rights - just rights for those you support.

Yes, to some extent, occupation is accepted terminology, but you're wrong when you say there have been demands to return to the 67 borders with "minor" adjustments. The adjustments have been major and the US has never demanded that Israel accept them. The US has agreed with Israel that to get too close to those borders would put Israel at great risk.

The Palestinians already gave up 78% of their ancestral land for Oslo. She has no more to give. It is true that the US has been prepared to accept Israel's unrealistic demands rather that minor adjustments. The US also accepts that East Jerusalem is occupied.

There can be a two-state solution, but it can't be on the pre-67 borders and it can't include a Right of Return. Both of those are suicide for Israel and, therefore, unacceptable.

Actually no and the time is long since gone when this was possible - probably at the Israeli pull out of Gaza. That is why the International work now is for the rights of the Palestinians that the only possibility left now is for one state, everyone a citizen and full rights for all. Admittedly the EU has not yet come round to admitting this but I think she soon will.

No nation will follow international law - if following it means suicide for that nation.

Certainly, that is understandable.

That is ridiculous. It is simply an excuse for Israel to continue taking more land. Israel has the fourth I think strongest military in the world and certainly has been supported by the No 1. Whether that continues remains to be seen.

No Nation has the right to keep a people without rights for going on 5o years.

We have been asked not to go off topic. I refer you to post forty which is on topic.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Re: Israel accused of 'war crime' over bulldozing of Palestinian olive groves

You support Israel doing it and believe that the indigenous people of Palestine have no rights.

The best way to have an honest discussion, is not to tell the other person what they support or believe.

Nice try. You are supporting colonisation. In the past everyone who ever was colonised fought back against it using any and every trick they could get and usually managed to send the colonisers home.

These things however were before the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Geneva Convention and other new rules of war.

Hence we go back to you personally not believing in the rule of law and having a personal interest in supporting colonisation even if it is only Israel that you support doing it as well as a lack of conscience as to the suffering this causes. You are not a person who believes in Universal Human Rights - just rights for those you support.

I don't think you understand what the term, "colonization" really means. The occupied areas were not colonized by migration. They were taken in war. It would help if you understood the differences.

I support Israel retaining the land. The land was NOT taken by colonization.

Actually no and the time is long since gone when this was possible - probably at the Israeli pull out of Gaza. That is why the International work now is for the rights of the Palestinians that the only possibility left now is for one state, everyone a citizen and full rights for all. Admittedly the EU has not yet come round to admitting this but I think she soon will.

One state will never work.

That is ridiculous. It is simply an excuse for Israel to continue taking more land. Israel has the fourth I think strongest military in the world and certainly has been supported by the No 1. Whether that continues remains to be seen.

No Nation has the right to keep a people without rights for going on 5o years.

They're not taking any more land.

We have been asked not to go off topic. I refer you to post forty which is on topic.

The subject of land ownership is vital to the topic, because it determines whether or not the bulldozing was valid. As it turns out, Israel had every right to doze those trees. They were planted illegally.