Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody strugg

[Rogue Valley]

Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody struggle for Fallujah

28 MAY 2016

Iraqi Sunni families fleeing Fallujah


As Iraqi forces close in on Fallujah, they are facing what is essentially a city-wide hostage crisis. Some 1,700 Isil fighters are believed to be holding perhaps 50,000 civilians in the centre of the city, hoping that government troops and their Shia militia allies will refrain from launching an all-out assault for fear of killing innocents.

Double jeopardy. ISIS human shields and possibly post-action victims of various Shia militia.

Mainly due to a spate of ISIS suicide-bombings in Baghdad, the government decided to concentrate on nearby Fallujah instead of liberating the northern city of Mosul as the US had advised.

 

[Gaztopian]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

Human excrement.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure Iraq no longer listens to American "advice".

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody struggle for Fallujah




Double jeopardy. ISIS human shields and possibly post-action victims of various Shia militia.

Mainly due to a spate of ISIS suicide-bombings in Baghdad, the government decided to concentrate on nearby Fallujah instead of liberating the northern city of Mosul as the US had advised.

It's the same problem the US had in Fallujah before. The US used lots of Willy Pete and DU and lots of civilians died. It's going to be a repeat. There is no other solution unfortunately and it will repeat itself in Raqqa in the near future.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

It does not really matter who is listening to who at this point, retaking any city from ISIS means civilian loss of life and a humanitarian disaster. This is the realized nature of dealing with ISIS, or the Taliban, or some al-Qaeda affiliate, or some other extremist organization... they are willing to trade the lives of even kids to ensure their own escape. It does not matter what force from whatever nation is taking Fallujah back, there will be a mess just because of ISIS involvement. We, nor anyone else, can be surgical against this group.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

It's the same problem the US had in Fallujah before. The US used lots of Willy Pete and DU and lots of civilians died. It's going to be a repeat. There is no other solution unfortunately and it will repeat itself in Raqqa in the near future.

White Phosphorus (for those that didn't know, that's what he's referring to as Willy Pete) is used in smoke grenades and smokescreen generators on armored vehicles such as tanks and APC's, as well as those deployed by mortars or artillery to create smoke shields to cover troops movements from enemy view. White Phosphorus can also be used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants to set fire to enemy emplacements. The US has not used Phosphorous on civilians in Iraq - regardless of what the CT groups or the CT movies (like Fallujah, The Hidden Massacre would want you to believe).

Depleted Uranium (the DU he's talking about) is used in armor penetrating artillery and tank shells as well as air-to-ground armor penetrating munitions and of course the well known bunker-buster bombs, very effectively.

Both WP and DU have their potential problems, but so does every type of military munition or military tool. War is not clean, and there are no weapons that do not have the potential to result in collateral damages. Even a round from a hand gun can ricochet and impact a civilian causing unintentional collateral damage.

 

[washunut]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

It does not really matter who is listening to who at this point, retaking any city from ISIS means civilian loss of life and a humanitarian disaster. This is the realized nature of dealing with ISIS, or the Taliban, or some al-Qaeda affiliate, or some other extremist organization... they are willing to trade the lives of even kids to ensure their own escape. It does not matter what force from whatever nation is taking Fallujah back, there will be a mess just because of ISIS involvement. We, nor anyone else, can be surgical against this group.

If you used the same logic as the UN, EU Obama etc uses when fighting rages between Israel and Hamas in Gaza then these are war crimes. Wonder if the U.S. "advisers" in this conflict could be brought in front of the World court?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

If you used the same logic as the UN, EU Obama etc uses when fighting rages between Israel and Hamas in Gaza then these are war crimes. Wonder if the U.S. "advisers" in this conflict could be brought in front of the World court?

Sure pal. Good luck with that :roll:

 

[DrOrange]

Re: Islamic State creates city-wide hostage crisis as Iraq's army escalates bloody st

If you used the same logic as the UN, EU Obama etc uses when fighting rages between Israel and Hamas in Gaza then these are war crimes. Wonder if the U.S. "advisers" in this conflict could be brought in front of the World court?

While you are correct, ISIS has been committing these war crimes and others since the day they popped into existence. Now obviously civilian casualties are not ideal, but when you're neighbor is generating civilian casualties even when you're not attacking, at some point the casualties will be lower if you do attack: Perhaps a day long or week long or month long assault generates 1,000 or 10,000 civilian casualties, but if ISIS is killing 400 people a day, then the assault generates less casualties than no assault. Obviously those are arbitrary numbers, but the point still stands and I'm willing to bet that my proportions are spot on.

OrphanSlug said it best:

It does not really matter who is listening to who at this point, retaking any city from ISIS means civilian loss of life and a humanitarian disaster. This is the realized nature of dealing with ISIS, or the Taliban, or some al-Qaeda affiliate, or some other extremist organization... they are willing to trade the lives of even kids to ensure their own escape. It does not matter what force from whatever nation is taking Fallujah back, there will be a mess just because of ISIS involvement. We, nor anyone else, can be surgical against this group.