• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Hussein’s chemical weapons facility

re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
Yeah right - smart people can put them back together - I could.

The real cost is assembling these weapons - not reassembling the weapons.

Do you not understand that?
Click to expand...

No one gets to make a statement like "Yeah right - smart people can put them back together - I could."
And not be required to submit demonstrable proof to that effect.

I'll just say that I don't believe you until I see proof, mmmkay?
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Checkerboard Strangler said:
No one gets to make a statement like "Yeah right - smart people can put them back together - I could."
And not be required to submit demonstrable proof to that effect.

I'll just say that I don't believe you until I see proof, mmmkay?
Click to expand...

So basically you want to know how to build a nuclear weapon....

I'll tell you and you will kill yourself doing it but....
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


Someone in this thread, I won't say who, had a father who was directly involved with nuclear weapons, their manufacture, their testing, (both pre and post test ban treaty) weapons effects, nuclear hardening, pulsed power, both SALT Talks programs, thermal X-ray lasers, and global development of early fusion power projects.

That someone is looking at your statement with a rather jaundiced eye because while that person does not possess his father's level of acumen in the field, he's also not that stupid and still has access to enough materials that he could ask some very embarrassing questions.

Is this what you really want?
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

JasperL said:
Yellow cake doesn't make a very good 'dirty' bomb
Click to expand...

It doesn't make ANY kind of dirty bomb, at all...ever.
You run more risk futzing around with the lighting elements of some old thorium laced Coleman lantern wicks
or some old Thorium coated photo lenses.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
So basically you want to know how to build a nuclear weapon....

I'll tell you and you will kill yourself doing it but....
Click to expand...

No I did NOT SAY THAT.
I want to see YOU prove that YOU know how.
You made the statement so all I am doing is waiting for you to support it, back it up with something.

Never mind what I know or don't know, we can get to that later if you like.
But know this, I have not claimed that I know what you claim to know.
I've never told anyone that I am capable of (A) putting together a nuke weapon, (B) putting one BACK together,
(C) enriching yellowcake into weapons grade fissionable materials, (D) assembling the necessary "fuze" devices, checking their integrity or
(E) barring that, estimating their yield as "dirty bomb" type devices.

Throughout this thread you have either directly and indirectly claimed knowledge and capability of all or part of each of these points.
Now, where I come from, with my youthful background, (because I am not a nuclear physicist) that's like a guy pulling up at a light, revving
his engine and claiming he can smoke what I'm driving.

I'm pointing at the traffic light and saying "On green dude, let's see what you got."
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


SALT lol, sounds more like someones father worked at a nuke plant..

Just for fun, who's to say I don't understand or have the engineering abilities to just build a bomb with the right materials (not that I would)...

I'll tell you this much I could create yellow cake to fun cake but I would probably kill myself doing it - but so could a lot of people. The key is safety.

I'm not a nut but understanding how things work is a perplexity of mine - anything.

Building an "bomb" would not be difficult......

Getting the "cake" to status would be suicide unless you had the appropriate facilities and safety.

Do you really think suicide bombers think about that? the engineers will just tell them what to do.
 
re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


Yeah you did and the only way I could EVER prove myself is if I told you how to build a nuclear weapon using Uranium.

I'm not even going to tell you what type of uranium to use - I'm not going to tell you anything.

I'm full of ****.....

I know nothing....
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


Oh yeah? How about this little gem at the end of the OP:

Lots of people owe Bush/Cheney a big apology.
Click to expand...

I dunno about you, but that is pretty much telling. Seems that long after the truth has been revealed, there are those still trying hard to find justification.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

JasperL said:
That's really not true. The war was sold to the American public based on WMD, the fear of another 9/11, only this time with chemical/biological/nuclear weapons. I remember the Powell presentation....
Click to expand...

If you would actually follow the argument being made that would really help. I was responding to someone arguing that the justification was centered on Saddam's nuclear program. I stated there were many more reasons that that.

Yeah, sure, the formal declaration of war contained all the breaches, etc. but really no one outside the State Dept or UN cared or cares about violations of UN agreements or terms of a ceasefire.
Click to expand...

This is a very odd statement. The Powell argument was that Saddam had violated many requirements of the cease fire agreement. UN Resolution 1441 is simply a reaffirmation of UN Resolutions 660,661, 678, etc. that were all terms of the original cease fire. The argument was about suspected stockpiles of weapons, unlawful capabilities to produce, unlawful attempts to reconstitute programs and blocking of UN teams from inspections of key Iraqi sites.

By violating the terms of the cease fire Saddam had entered a war posture. That is all the justification needed for restarting the hot war.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


Why on earth would we apologize for remnants of weapons that were sealed in bunkers because they were too dangerous to destroyed but where military useless for Saddam?

The UN knew it was there and the material was but beyond use. The production of chemical weapons had been stopped there decades ago. Saddam did not have stockpiles of weapons grade chemical weapons, he did not have a production program of chemical weapons. Nothing had changed since after the first Gulf war. Most chemical weapons had been destroyed, a bit was left an put beyond use and not reused by Saddam.

Bush and Cheney lied about Saddam's nuclear and chemical weapons programs. That has long been established. This bunker does not change that fact at all.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


More like vapid CON no-sense... :doh

Minute amounts of old chem weapons doesn't a stockpile make. Some arty pro-jos tested positive but were 'rebranded' shells filled with explosives. I can only find 2 cases where an IED tested positive for chem AND apparently were so degraded they failed to be lethal. A test range dstroyed hundreds of bombs and apparently 8 survived destruction in the detonation pits.

Did you read the Faux Noise article you cite? 2 tons of 3-5% uranium that CAN'T be used for a dirty bomb... :doh

The more deadly sources are CIVILIAN MEDICAL isotopes that can be found by the 'thousands of sources' in ANY major city...

The 2007 CIA report on the 'facility' claims the buildings are razed, the equipment destroyed, and the chem stockpiles are old damaged and contaminated.

You have done ZERO to counter the simplistic chant- 'Bush lied and good troops died'... eace
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

notquiteright said:
More like vapid CON no-sense... :doh

Minute amounts of old chem weapons doesn't a stockpile make.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. Can you post the chemical weapons inventory, types, age, amount and storage facility details?
 
ObamacareFail said:
11 years later? No. However in 2003 the weapons were quite usable and quite dangerous.
Click to expand...

Really? Where are those weapons then? Oh let me guess you're going to go conspiracy theory and say Syria right?
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Ockham said:
Excellent point. Can you post the chemical weapons inventory, types, age, amount and storage facility details?
Click to expand...

The ISG (Iraq Survey Group) report did a most excellent job of that. Many online sources have it. The Faux reports, while attempting to ramp the threat up, do show how little was found. (did you read CP's links????) The 2007 CIA report is online. Rather than reinvent the wheel, go check for yourself... if you find a massive stockpile of ready to use Chems by all means post it.... eace
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

And if these remnants of weapons were so dangerous and Bush and Cheney knew exactly it was there (which is proven from the CIA report I just read), then why did they not destroy it themselves? If they were so dangerous, then why were they not destroyed when the US military was over there and could have done something about it.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Mr.Nick said:
Of course you don't.

What you want to hear is that Saddam was awesome and that Iraq having WMD's was a lie.
Click to expand...

He was a murderous dictator.

And whether Saddam had "WMD" or not, we'll probably never know. We never found them, most of Powell's presentation to the UN that sold the war to the American public was false or never confirmed, we never found any evidence of ongoing chemical or biological or nuclear programs, etc.


He absolutely HAD them, but of course after that was a war then years of inspections and sanctions.

And how does my post relate - pretty simple - you claim one cannot rebuild a weapon or create one - yet I call bull**** and say it's happened numerous times and that I can throw lighting bolts at people if I wanted to just to prove that fact.
Click to expand...

?
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

jmotivator said:
If you would actually follow the argument being made that would really help. I was responding to someone arguing that the justification was centered on Saddam's nuclear program. I stated there were many more reasons that that.
Click to expand...

Yes, the fear of biological or chemical weapons and another 9/11.


First of all, Powell didn't say, to the effect, "He might have weapons, he might have mobile labs capable.." He said the U.S. KNEW those things. A direct line was drawn between him having tose weapons and the safety of the U.S., we were told to fear another 9/11 if we didn't act, potentially a nuclear weapon. And we never found evidence for any of it. That was the 'justification' and it just wasn't true.

The UN stuff, and you know this, was just the legal wrapping around the WMD allegations. Without the WMD allegations, there is no ground war.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


They did that survey report and addendum is from 2005. The CIA report you identified is from 2007.

The date today is June 20, 2014. So you're claim then is the exact same chemicals and inventory exists. Is that your assumption given a 9 year old and 7 year old report?
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

cpwill said:
The argument that no WMD were found except for the ones that we found, but that they don't count, is a very poor argument.
Click to expand...

You can't sell a war based on the existence of military grade WMD existing, being distributed to commanders in the field, assert we know they have existing mobile production labs - see, there's one there, and over here are five sites we know store chemical weapons, etc. (reread what Powell told the UN), and then when we find NONE of that, but we do find some old, degraded, unusable except for 'dirty bomb' material, pretend that's enough to justify the war.

If they told us old degraded stuff was the reason we went in, fine. That's not what was sold to the world.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Middleground said:
Oh yeah? How about this little gem at the end of the OP:
Click to expand...

Which in context of what he was saying, it was as it relates to the claims that there were no WMD's or that they lied that there were WMD's there.

The OP, and anyone after it, did not make any argument as to whether or not this itself justified the invastion.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


Do you suppose the stockpile increased in that period? Gas bombs made babies?
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


You do realize these weapons are obsolete. They no longer work! They are useless.
 
Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

Deuce said:
Do you suppose the stockpile increased in that period? Gas bombs made babies?
Click to expand...

Way to step up! So you answer the question:


Yes or no?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…