So the option is either fight back or just let it happen.
Wonder why they are sticking with fighting back?
No, the solution is to negotiate a ceasefire and end the fighting. History provides numerous examples of conflicts concluding through peace treaties, even when a nation must cede territory as part of the armistice.
For instance, Empress Catherine the Great’s victory over the Ottoman Empire led to the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca (1774), which is part of the historical basis for Putin’s claim that Crimea is Russian territory, given that its population has traditionally been more aligned with Russia than Ukraine.
As I’ve previously noted, it is common practice for nations to sign treaties to end wars they are losing. Consider the Treaty of Paris (1815), which adjusted France’s borders after Napoleon’s forces were routed at Waterloo; the Treaty of Versailles (1919), which reshaped Europe post-WWI; the various Arab–Israeli wars, each of which produced armistice lines that reflected territorial shifts; and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), through which Mexico ceded approximately 55 percent of its territory to the United States to end a war it was losing.
No, the solution is to negotiate a ceasefire and end the fighting. History provides numerous examples of conflicts concluding through peace treaties, even when a nation must cede territory as part of the armistice.
For instance, Empress Catherine the Great’s victory over the Ottoman Empire led to the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca (1774), which is part of the historical basis for Putin’s claim that Crimea is Russian territory, given that its population has traditionally been more aligned with Russia than Ukraine.
As I’ve previously noted, it is common practice for nations to sign treaties to end wars they are losing. Consider the Treaty of Paris (1815), which adjusted France’s borders after Napoleon’s forces were routed at Waterloo; the Treaty of Versailles (1919), which reshaped Europe post-WWI; the various Arab–Israeli wars, each of which produced armistice lines that reflected territorial shifts; and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), through which Mexico ceded approximately 55 percent of its territory to the United States to end a war it was losing.
The US could end the Russia threat by selling more weapons to Ukraine. Like $50 billion worth.
Neither Russia nor Ukraine have agreed on terms for a ceasefire because all of the offered terms don't fit their strategic interests.
It seems a common tactic for you to add a bunch of trivia to your posts as if it constitutes a more effective argument.
The Treaty of Versailles didn't work out so hot.
No it isn't. Ukraine would be delighted to end the conflict with a total withdrawal of Russian forces from their land.It is equally plausible that neither side wants to end the conflict.
None of your references applies to Putin, who has already broken no less than 25 accords, cease fires and treaties with Ukraine. He proved it again just last week. Nothing he says and nothing he signs can be trusted, rendering it totally impossible to end this conflict by ceding territory. Period."Trivia"? I’m not sure why you view historical facts as mere trivia, but c’est la vie. My references to treaties ending conflicts by ceding territory were in direct response to your apparent all-or-nothing scenario.
It is equally plausible that neither side wants to end the conflict.
"Trivia"? I’m not sure why you view historical facts as mere trivia, but c’est la vie. My references to treaties ending conflicts by ceding territory were in direct response to your apparent all-or-nothing scenario.
Likewise, I'd like to win the powerball. That's not going to happen, and neither is Russia withdrawing to the pre-2014 borders.No it isn't. Ukraine would be delighted to end the conflict with a total withdrawal of Russian forces from their land.
None of your references applies to Putin, who has already broken no less than 25 accords, cease fires and treaties with Ukraine. He proved it again just last week. Nothing he says and nothing he signs can be trusted, rendering it totally impossible to end this conflict by ceding territory. Period.
Ending the war won't stop Russia from launching a 3rd invasion.
A security guarantee, which means promised military assistance from the West, will prevent another one.
There’s no misdirection in my "equally plausible" statement—I'm simply recognizing Realpolitik. Likewise, as we've seen, neither side is interested in a negotiated peace agreement. When warfare between two nations stretches over many years, it often shifts from a political disagreement—aligned with Clausewitz’s theory that war is an extension of politics—into a deeply personal feud between their leaders. As the conflict drags on, emotions like anger, pride, and vengeance intensify, overshadowing the original political objectives. Leaders become fixated on defeating each other rather than achieving strategic goals, investing their personal reputation and resources into the struggle. This shift, known as the personalization of conflict, makes peace negotiations extremely difficult, as compromise feels like personal surrender rather than a rational choice.This is, i suspect, deliberate misdirection on your part.
Both Russia and Ukraine would prefer the conflict to end as soon as possible.
But in their favor.
Yes, it's trivia, dressed up to seem like you're backing up your argument. But when you actually examine it you realize it doesn't do anything to actually address my point, which was not "there's no precedent for a ceasefire" but rather "a ceasefire under present conditions suits neither faction".
In that case why should Russia agree to a settlement where the aim is to use the stand down to arm Ukraine to the teeth?
They would with advanced American weaponry.Likewise, I'd like to win the powerball. That's not going to happen, and neither is Russia withdrawing to the pre-2014 borders.
See above.So what’s your solution?
That's why we should support Ukraine's efforts. If what you say above is true, then what incentive does Putin have to stop? Answer: NONE! The longer the war goes on, the more territory Ukraine cedes. It's not a complicated formula. This war is a zero sum game.Ukraine’s much-heralded 2023 Spring Offensive has already failed. Since then, Ukraine has been on the defensive, ceding territory.
There can be no "ceasefire through a land for peace agreement". What is it you refuse to grasp about that? How breathtakingly in denial of Putin's record does a person have to be to still be hornswoggled by that horseshit? Stop breathing your own Methane and come up for air. It'll clear you head, and you'll see that there are only two options. Let Putin slaughter Ukrainians until his forces occupy the entire country, or pound the son of a bitch back behind his own borders again.Given that you reject a ceasefire through a "land for peace" agreement, how do you propose Ukraine militarily defeating Russia and driving their forces from Ukrainian territory?
There’s no misdirection in my "equally plausible" statement—I'm simply recognizing Realpolitik. Likewise, as we've seen, neither side is interested in a negotiated peace agreement.
Consequently, the war devolves into a grueling war of attrition, where both sides aim to vanquish their opponent entirely, regardless of the mounting human and economic costs, locking them into a cycle of violence with no clear end. The harsh reality is that Russia, with its larger population and industrial base, has the advantage. As a result, Russia will continue grinding Ukraine down, as it is doing now. If there is no peace, then Kyiv will eventually fall—just as Berlin did in 1945.
The situation isn't simply that "a ceasefire under present conditions suits neither faction," as it's evident that neither side's citizens benefit from the ongoing slaughter. The reality is that neither leader desires a ceasefire that would require compromise.
We’ve already given Ukraine Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, Javelin anti-tank systems, Switchblade loitering munitions, HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems), Abrams M1 main battle tanks, and Patriot missile systems—all while depleting U.S. military stockpiles of 155 mm howitzer shells and other critical supplies. What more advanced American weaponry do you want us to send? Stealth bombers? Nuclear weapons?They would with advanced American weaponry.
See above.
That's why we should support Ukraine's efforts. If what you say above is true, then what incentive does Putin have to stop? Answer: NONE! The longer the war goes on, the more territory Ukraine cedes. It's not a complicated formula. This war is a zero sum game.
There can be no "ceasefire through a land for peace agreement". What is it you refuse to grasp about that? How breathtakingly in denial of Putin's record does a person have to be to still be hornswoggled by that horseshit? Stop breathing your own Methane and come up for air. It'll clear you head, and you'll see that there are only two options. Let Putin slaughter Ukrainians until his forces occupy the entire country, or pound the son of a bitch back behind his own borders again.
Either we reward the megalomaniacal madman with a gift of Ukraine, or we teach the evil genie a lesson, and stuff him back into his lamp. Which do you prefer? Putin losing - or Putin winning?
??
We’ve already given Ukraine Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, Javelin anti-tank systems, Switchblade loitering munitions, HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems), Abrams M1 main battle tanks, and Patriot missile systems—
all while depleting U.S. military stockpiles of 155 mm howitzer shells and other critical supplies. What more advanced American weaponry do you want us to send? Stealth bombers? Nuclear weapons?We’ve already stripped our warehouses of critical weaponry so Ukraine could be armed with advanced American systems.
Despite that, Ukraine refuses to adopt Western tactics, clinging instead to their Soviet-style training and fighting a World War I-style trench war.
Even after draining our military stockpiles and squandering tens of billions on this dumb proxy war, the so-called “megalomaniacal madman” is still winning. And while you arbitrarily reject a ceasefire—one that would end the war along the current battle lines—neither you nor anyone else has explained what’s suddenly going to change that would allow Ukraine to win, short of NATO intervening directly (which, of course, would start World War III).
What makes you think the little dictator’s forces—after three years of losing—are suddenly going to pound the “son of a bitch” back behind his own borders again? Do you have any actual plan—or is this just more delusional cheerleading for Zelenskyy and his doomed fantasy of total victory?
Frankly, I haven’t seen much evidence from either side that they’re serious about ending the war. Zelenskyy claims he wants peace, but then goes on European media and flatly states he won’t accept any ceasefire that acknowledges Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea—or any of the other territories he’s already lost. Meanwhile, Putin signals he's open to a ceasefire, even as he ramps up military attacks and continues bombing cities.This is, again, misleading. Both sides have expressed a willingness for a negotiated peace agreement, in fact they have already done work for it. The issue is neither sides conditions are acceptable to another, ergo an impasse.
This is an argument that boils down war to mere arithmitic, an understandable but not entirely sound venture.
The reality is that Russias demands include the essential surrender of Ukraine in exchange for basically no concessions on Russias part.
Ukraine has already signaled willingness to negotiate also long as it gets security guarantees that Russia won't return and finish the job later. Ukraine knows that if it surrenders, what will follow is the steady erasure of Ukraines status as an independent nation.
In that case why should Russia agree to a settlement where the aim is to use the stand down to arm Ukraine to the teeth?
And why should Ukraine agree to a settlement where it is forced to disarm while Russia rearms itself to the teeth?
Frankly, I haven’t seen much evidence from either side that they’re serious about ending the war. Zelenskyy claims he wants peace, but then goes on European media and flatly states he won’t accept any ceasefire that acknowledges Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea—or any of the other territories he’s already lost. Meanwhile, Putin signals he's open to a ceasefire, even as he ramps up military attacks and continues bombing cities.
Sure, one could argue that Putin is simply trying to improve his hand at the negotiating table—such as by reclaiming Russian territory like Kursk Oblast, which Ukraine had seized, rather than being forced to trade captured Ukrainian land just to get his own territory back. But if that’s the case, how exactly do Zelenskyy’s absolutist statements indicate any real interest in a negotiated peace?
Warfare typically follows one of two paths. The first involves overwhelming force, especially when paired with advanced technology, to quickly defeat and subjugate a nation in a short period of time. For example, the U.S.-led battle to liberate Kuwait and devastate Saddam’s forces. However, when such decisive battles don’t occur, warfare often devolves into a war of attrition. In such cases, the larger, more powerful nation usually emerges victorious. While American and European support for Biden’s proxy war against Russia has kept Ukraine alive, the patience of American taxpayers has reached its limit—just as Americans grew weary of the Vietnam War and later the Deep State’s 20-year wars in Afghanistan and the Middle East.
Ending the war via an armistice isn’t “surrendering.” It’s simply a matter of both nations coming to their senses and ending the senseless slaughter. Ukraine’s future security lies in its neutrality, with America and European nations making significant investments in Ukraine. Russia would think twice before attacking facilities tied to American and European interests.
Besides, it’s in Russia’s national interest to pursue rapprochement, as it would benefit from returning to its pre-Obama Cold War 2.0 status as a member of the G8 and an economic peer of the Western world.
As I’ve previously noted, it is common practice for nations to sign treaties to end wars they are losing. Consider the Treaty of Paris (1815), which adjusted France’s borders after Napoleon’s forces were routed at Waterloo; the Treaty of Versailles (1919), which reshaped Europe post-WWI; the various Arab–Israeli wars, each of which produced armistice lines that reflected territorial shifts; and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), through which Mexico ceded approximately 55 percent of its territory to the United States to end a war it was losing.
The Treaty of Versailles didn't work out so hot.
It's like he thought he was in charge.
Yes, it's trivia, dressed up to seem like you're backing up your argument. But when you actually examine it you realize it doesn't do anything to actually address my point, which was not "there's no precedent for a ceasefire" but rather "a ceasefire under present conditions suits neither faction"."Trivia"? I’m not sure why you view historical facts as mere trivia, but c’est la vie.
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