Is Violence Ever Necessary?

[Goobieman]

Why would you need to put of few rounds in someone's chest?

There are any number of scenarios where I have the right to use deadly force in my own self-defense of the defense of another -- do I need to describe any of them, or can you take it from here?

Violence and war should be used as a last resort when you have no other choice. We still had choices left when we attacked Iraq and Afganistan.

This topic isnt about Iraq or Afghanistan, its about the necessity of violence, period.
Why do you insist on trying to bring this conversation down to your level of partisan bigotry?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
You mean your photodoced picture? Or perhaps of the evaced hospital which was being used by the insurgency as a base of operations from which to kill Americans, that you tried to pawn off as an example of the U.S. blowing up hospitals for sh!ts and giggles?

Interesting that you don't provide any evidence to indicate the photo was doctored. You remind me of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz tapping her shoes together with her eyes closed and chanting, "There's no place like home. There's no place like home." You really want to believe things without having any reason why you should.

According to the report, no one was found in the rubble. The hospital had not opened yet. So, if there was no one there, why did we bomb it? Isn't targeting medical facilities against the Geneva Convention?

And if you want to keep insisting that it was being used by insurgents to attack US forces, post the proof. It doesn't have to be iron-clad. A simple report from someone in the area corroborating your statement.

If you can't do that, then tap your heals and think of home.

 

[LaMidRighter]

That's what you would like to think, but it's not the truth. Since when is asking that we obey the law, bashing America.

What law exactly did we break in invading Iraq or Afghanistan? As I recall the congress issued a formal declaration of war, that's as legal as it gets. If you are implying that international law was violated then who cares, it doesn't apply to U.S. policy and if the U.N. doesn't like it then they can send their troops to the U.S., I like our chances considering these troops would have to radio in permission to fire a shot, they would basically be target practice. :mrgreen:

I call things as I see them. I'm not going to be some little pollyanna and act like everything is OK when I see that it is not. As for the UN, if your going to belong to an organization, you should follow their rules. Especially, when your Congress ratifies some of them and makes them our rules.

Why follow rules that violate our own constitutional protections and laws? After all our constitution is older than the U.N. and besides that it makes more sense. All together now......#*$% the U.N.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What law exactly did we break in invading
Iraq or Afghanistan?

Billo has a very strange interpretation of Article VI of the US Constitution.

Its good to be back!!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
I didn't type that. I typed that you were taking a bombed out building and exxagerating the damage.

Then I continued to type about Fallujah and what all occurred there.

You then continued to whine about a blown up building. It's a simple mundane tactic used by the desperate who lack the ability to understand the world around him. Have you developed enough deductive skills to realize how much about women's liberation this is about? Probably not.

This is the reality.

Are you saying you didn't tell me I was "imagining" things in Falluja? Are you saying that you didn't tell me that we are an "imaginary enemy?" You and I both know what you said. Am I going to have to track down the posts and throw them in your face like you do with mine? It would be nice if we didn't have to go there. It's your call.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
Ohhhh, so now you are against Afghanistan too? I guess this is your way of not allowing me to use the fact that you enjoy bashing every aspect of Iraq for the violence, while you ignore what is going on in Afghanistan. You are so easily persuadable.

It was rumored on another thread that you live in the real world. If you do, why do you think I enjoy bashing every aspect of Iraq? Why do you think I've ignored Afganistan? Why do you think I'm so persuadable?

Why are you so offended that I have an opinion different than yours?

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

Everybody trying to gang up on Billo'Really lol. Guess I should step in to even the odds a little bit.

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

Ohhhh, so now you are against Afghanistan too? I guess this is your way of not allowing me to use the fact that you enjoy bashing every aspect of Iraq for the violence, while you ignore what is going on in Afghanistan. You are so easily persuadable.

Gunny, I think I am going to become a peacenik, a tree hugger, a COMMUNIST and then join the Marine Corps, hmmm, wonder how long I would last and how many friends I would make?

 

[MSgt]

According to the report, no one was found in the rubble. The hospital had not opened yet. So, if there was no one there, why did we bomb it? Isn't targeting medical facilities against the Geneva Convention?

Oh..blah blah blah. Same old crap. You continue to whine and you will continue to receive the same answers. Are your this dense?

Hospitals and churches are sanctioned from combat. However, once the enemy disrespects these establishments, they become military targets and we no longer respect them. What is this stupid "report" anyway? Are you referring to the one Sunni doctor who made a couple statements to reporters? The contents of the hospital are irrelevent. It was a HQ and the fact that it was empty only means that they were in the streets fighting and we denied them their fall back position. Damn you are the most obtuse and senseless individual on this site.

I've told you this before. They were using their mosques and their hospitals (of which you tried to say there was only one, according to your eye witness doctor) as headquarters and as organizing locations. We removed them.

And if you want to keep insisting that it was being used by insurgents to attack US forces, post the proof. It doesn't have to be iron-clad. A simple report from someone in the area corroborating your statement.

If you can't do that, then tap your heals and think of home.

Proof of a combat action versus your wild accusations based on a Sunni doctor that hates the U.S. You are quite the sucker. Of course, what should we expect from the guy who wants the U.S. to take Osama Bin Laden up on his terms. You're America's worse enemy - that of the sympathizer of tyrants who needs sympathy to survive. :roll:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
(you left out the H)


Afghanistan? NO flipping way!

The US told the taliban several times to turn over bin laden they decided not to listen. They received a lot more chances they I would have given.

But please tell, what else could have been done in afghan?

Have you ever heard of the word "jurisdiction". Afganistan was out of our jurisdiction, but we made it ours anyway. Of coarse, we broke international law in doing so.

I find it interesting that we told the Taliban 5 weeks before 9/11 that if they didn't accept our offer of a carpet of gold [dividends from the proposed pipeline], that we would bury them with a carpet of bombs.

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

Have you ever heard of the word "jurisdiction". Afganistan was out of our jurisdiction, but we made it ours anyway. Of coarse, we broke international law in doing so.

I find it interesting that we told the Taliban 5 weeks before 9/11 that if they didn't accept our offer of a carpet of gold [dividends from the proposed pipeline], that we would bury them with a carpet of bombs.

Are you saying we attacked Afghanistan in order to build an Afghan oil pipeline on terms favorable to the US and US companies?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Goobieman:
This topic isnt about Iraq or Afghanistan, its about the necessity of violence, period. Why do you insist on trying to bring this conversation down to your level of partisan bigotry?

I was using them as an example to make my point about when to use violence. If you got a problem with the examples I use, eat more Wheaties.

 

[MSgt]

Gunny, I think I am going to become a peacenik, a tree hugger, a COMMUNIST and then join the Marine Corps, hmmm, wonder how long I would last and how many friends I would make?

Probably plenty. The Marine Corps is like any other organization with diverse beliefs. However, you would eventually get yourself washed out.

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

Probably plenty. The Marine Corps is like any other organization with diverse beliefs. However, you would eventually get yourself washed out.

How could the Marine Corps have such "diverse beliefs" and then somebody with my beliefs be "washed out?"

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

Pre-requisite to joining the Marine Corps:

Must be inhumane, love to start fights, itching to pull the trigger on somebody, love war, believe in pure-unrestrained capitalism, no compassion for others, no tolerance for somebody who has different views or opinions than yourself. Hate gays and hold some racist points of view.

Would this be an accurate statement Gunny? Or am I wrong? Do you have people in the Corps who predominately share your viewpoint on many issues? Or are their an equal number of people who share your point of view as to those who do not share your point of view?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you saying we attacked Afghanistan in order to build an Afghan oil pipeline on terms favorable to the US and US companies?

This is SO old.

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

This is SO old.

Well fill me in, I am interested in hearing this OLD story.

 

[teacher]

A lot of good we did, Mr. Wizard. Their about to have a civil war!

Remember when I asked you what if it all turns out good in Iraq Billo? You said one can't debate what has not happened. Let's be consistant here eh?

I'm teacher, of the colossal brain, rememberer of stuff.

 

[MSgt]

Are you saying you didn't tell me I was "imagining" things in Falluja? Are you saying that you didn't tell me that we are an "imaginary enemy?" You and I both know what you said. Am I going to have to track down the posts and throw them in your face like you do with mine? It would be nice if we didn't have to go there. It's your call.

You've really proven to be too much of a simpleton for me. What does this have to do with "Billo's hospital" in Fallujah? Your whines and wails about the total destruction in Fallujah was an exxageration.

We are an imagined enemy, to the Muslim world. The Muslim world is wracked with failure and we are the scapegoat. Our guilt only goes so far, before their restrictive religion, oppressive governments, and abusive fanatics take over. All of their problems are self-inflicted. We did not refrain from building them schools and universities. We did not refrain from building them infrastructure. We did not enslave their women as properties of men. We did deny half of their population from contributing to their society. We did not interpret the Qu'ran for them and split them up into so many warring factions. This is all self-inflicted.

You continue to have a problem with seeing an entire Middle East. You see them as individual countries that have nothing to do with each other. You are wrong. Print a cartoon depicting Muhammed. We do not face Iraqis, Iranians, Sauds, Pakistanis, etc. We face a Muslim world that is clinging to passed down traditions that do not work in the 21st century.

 

[Goobieman]

Well fill me in, I am interested in hearing this OLD story.

I'm sure you know it as well as everyone else does.

Its the standard "Bush is an oil man and he's going to war for his oil buddies" shtick.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by LaMidRighter
What law exactly did we break in invading Iraq or Afghanistan? As I recall the congress issued a formal declaration of war, that's as legal as it gets. If you are implying that international law was violated then who cares, it doesn't apply to U.S. policy and if the U.N. doesn't like it then they can send their troops to the U.S., I like our chances considering these troops would have to radio in permission to fire a shot, they would basically be target practice.

This one [in addition to Article 51]:

Article 33
The parties to any dispute, the continuance of which is likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, enquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other peaceful means of their own choice.

The Security Council shall, when it deems necessary, call upon the parties to settle their dispute by such means.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter6.htm

And this is our law. We ratified this. Which makes it as much as law as our Consititution.

Originally posted by LaMidRighter
Why follow rules that violate our own constitutional protections and laws? After all our constitution is older than the U.N. and besides that it makes more sense. All together now......#*$% the U.N.

They don't violate our Constitutional laws, they ARE our Constitutional laws!

 

[MSgt]

Remember when I asked you what if it all turns out good in Iraq Billo? You said one can't debate what has not happened. Let's be consistant here eh?

I'm teacher, of the colossal brain, rememberer of stuff.

Well, that would be the problem. He is a creature of emotion and his posts are inconsistent to match.

 

[ManOfTrueTruth]

You've really proven to be too much of a simpleton for me. What does this have to do with "Billo's hospital" in Fallujah? Your whines and wails about the total destruction in Fallujah was an exxageration.

We are an imagined enemy, to the Muslim world. The Muslim world is wracked with failure and we are the scapegoat. Our guilt only goes so far, before their restrictive religion, oppressive governments, and abusive fanatics take over. All of their problems are self-inflicted. We did not refrain from building them schools and universities. We did not refrain from building them infrastructure. We did not enslave their women as properties of men. We did deny half of their population from contributing to their society. We did not interpret the Qu'ran for them and split them up into so many warring factions. This is all self-inflicted.

You continue to have a problem with seeing an entire Middle East. You see them as individual countries that have nothing to do with each other. You are wrong. Print a cartoon depicting Muhhamed. We do not face Iraqis, Iranians, Sauds, Pakistanis, etc. We face a Muslim world that is clinging to passed down traditions that do not work in the 21st century.

"We" meaning the West, did create the nation of Iraq and lopped all these different factions together, with conflicting ideologies, into one country. The British also sought to get Iraq's oil as well. Are we doing the same thing? I wonder what British politicans told their people back then when they went into Iraq to get their oil?

 

[MSgt]

It was rumored on another thread that you live in the real world. If you do, why do you think I enjoy bashing every aspect of Iraq? Why do you think I've ignored Afganistan? Why do you think I'm so persuadable?

Why are you so offended that I have an opinion different than yours?

Who's offended? You're a mesquito.

One never knows what your inconsistent opinions will be. However, we can rest assured that if there is a chance to bash military, country, or President, you will desperately lunge at it.

 

[Goobieman]

And this is our law. We ratified this. Which makes it as much as law as our Consititution.

And why is this?