Is Trump handing LA effectively?

[Phys251]

So reading this thread... The whole literal-hitler/fascist/nazi thing is not going away is it?

Even though it was certainly part of why the election was lost for the left. Crescendoing all the way up to Madison Square Garden rally etc...

No were gonna triple down and crank up the new ridiculous narratives.

Sigh.

So we're not allowed to call out early-stage authoritarianism. Got it.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

So reading this thread... The whole literal-hitler/fascist/nazi thing is not going away is it?

Even though it was certainly part of why the election was lost for the left. Crescendoing all the way up to Madison Square Garden rally etc...

No were gonna triple down and crank up the new ridiculous narratives.

Sigh.

He's violating the law by federalizing the Guard despite the fact there is no rebellion. He has already disobeyed court orders. He is clearly trying to govern as an authoritarian. Is he Hitler? No, but what he is is bad enough, and it's appropriate to borrow from history, because that's really our own guide. And everyone thought Hitler was a big joke until he wasn't. All the people who saw Hitler coming from a mile away, and criticized Hitler, and tried to warn people didn't live very long to say, "I told you so."

 

[bythoughts]

So reading this thread... The whole literal-hitler/fascist/nazi thing is not going away is it?

Not since Trump sent a bunch of people to life imprisonment in a Latin American concentration camp without any gesture of due process. How can it go away now?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Not since Trump sent a bunch of people to life imprisonment in a Latin American concentration camp without any gesture of due process. How can it go away now?

Exactly. That's kind of Hitler-ish, right?

I guess Trump supporters don't see illegal immigrants as being human beings. I suppose that's why they can't see it.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Based on what data?

This is the problem.

Well, what forms of data do you trust?

Do you trust surveys that quietly ask millions of people where they were born, when they got here, which are required to keep those answers private by law?

Do you trust the government’s own lists that track who got a green card, became a citizen, arrived as a refugee, or still has a valid long-term visa?

Do you trust the reports that count border arrests and check who stayed past their visa date?

How about the tax records, school enrollments of immigrant children, and other everyday files that show whether someone is living and working here?

Would you trust the cited figure if all these different records point to almost the same totals year after year, wouldn’t that consistency itself be a good reason to believe the estimates are close to the truth?

 

[Lutherf]

So what?

If an entire city block can burn down in a matter of hours due to sustained winds is it no big deal?

Your George Floyd "protests" were an assault on the whole of America and were a persistent assault on America that went on for the better part of a year. While the Insurrection Act wasn't declared at that time there was absolutely justification for doing so. I multiple cities we saw elected leaders not only rein in police that were addressing the threats but also KNEEL IN SOLIDARITY with the violent gangs. J6 was a pimple on the butt of a gnat compared to all that but because the political left has ZERO integrity, it was treated as if it was "worse that Pearl Harbor". Now you're complaining that Trump has sent in military forces to protect federal property so that LAPD can actually do their job and address the threat against civilians. That threat against civilians, it should be noted, is because left wing political activists have managed to get it in their head that anyone that sets foot on American soil, no matter what the circumstances, is entitled to effective citizenship! Let me ask you, if anyone here illegally gets all the rights and privileges of a citizen then why do we even have citizenship? If there is no benefit in the US to being a US citizen (other than paying taxes) the why should we even have such a hateful, corrupt and abusive concept of "citizenship"?

 

[Hamish Howl]

Now add that to the 11-12 million who were already here. 19-20 million is a more accurate number. Could even be higher. The far left wants to keep their blue state cities blue for more representation in the federal government. That's why they use this demographic as their pawns, they are numbers for them.

You of course have a link for this, right?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I multiple cities we saw elected leaders not only rein in police that were addressing the threats

I would like you to be more specific. What do you mean by "rein" in police? What specific tactics and strategies did "multiple" city leaders prevent the police from engaging in? I would like you to precisely describe to me what is it that you think should have been done that wasn't. Did you want the police to kill more rioters? Use more rubber bullets? More tear gas? What? Be specific.

KNEEL IN SOLIDARITY with the violent gangs.

I don't remember this. When did any city leader kneel in solidary with "the violent gangs."

I remember them kneeling in solidarity with Black people. Is that what you're talking about? Are you mad that some city leaders kneeled in solidary with Black people?

J6 was a pimple on the butt of a gnat compared to all that but because the political left has ZERO integrity, it was treated as if it was "worse that Pearl Harbor".

Well, nobody associated with the George Floyd protests tried to overturn a presidential election, not even the violent rioters and looters. Think the Jan 6th insurrection was an assault on the whole of America. Think of all the people who voted in that election. That seems more like the "whole" of America to me. If democracy is something you believe in then you would recognize the Jan 6th insurrectionists were a far greater threat to the whole of America than the Floyd protestors.

Now you're complaining that Trump has sent in military forces to protect federal property so that LAPD can actually do their job and address the threat against civilians.

My complaint is that Trump is trying to put himself above the law. I think absent an actual rebellion the Guard should only be used when the LAPD, the LA Mayor, and the Governor of California agree it's appropriate and give their consent.

And the LAPD is doing its job when it's doing riot control and crowd control. That's what they're trained to do.

The U.S. has a long history of making sure military is not involved in local law enforcement. This approach has served us well. We should not abandon this practice just because a few Fox News viewers are freaking out.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

That threat against civilians, it should be noted, is because left wing political activists have managed to get it in their head that anyone that sets foot on American soil, no matter what the circumstances, is entitled to effective citizenship! Let me ask you, if anyone here illegally gets all the rights and privileges of a citizen then why do we even have citizenship? If there is no benefit in the US to being a US citizen (other than paying taxes) the why should we even have such a hateful, corrupt and abusive concept of "citizenship"?

Luther, citizenship is a two-way street. Citizens have both rights and responsibilities. So when you ask the question, if illegal immigrants get all the rights of a citizen then what's the point of citizenship, you're only looking at half the deal. We could also ask what illegal immigrants have done for the U.S. And the answer is quite a lot. And I think anyone who has worked with us, as our friend, should definitely not be treated as an enemy. But that's precisely how many Trump supporters view illegal immigrants...as enemies.

I would say also there is nothing about being a U.S. citizen that requires us to be cruel to illegal immigrants. This is a choice Trump and Stephen Miller have made for the rest of us, on the behalf of Trump's supporters. But we can choose to treat them with dignity and respect if we want to. The approach they are taking seems unnecessarily cruel and antagonistic.

Furthermore, with respect to our own laws and our own values, I think we are required to respect the due process rights of illegal immigrants, to not do things like send people with no criminal record to a maximum security prison in a foreign country. Certainly, you'd agree this is something we should not do, especially after so many Court rulings saying it's against the law to do so.

As it pertains to Trump's approach to the very minor protest that began in Los Angeles as a result of ICE's heavy-handed tactics, and absent a real rebellion, I think Trump is legally obligated to wait for California officials to request help from the federal government. I don't think what I'm suggesting is all that unreasonable. But I do think it is unreasonable for you to demand strict compliance to Trump's immigration agenda, to the extent you're willing to hold Los Angeles hostage with the U.S. military until you get what you want.

 

[Emlee]

He’s effectively exploiting it, because he personally hates Newsom and immigration is the only poll number he’s above water on.

 

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

The whole point of bringing in the Marines is to escalate the tension. Eventually, it will reach critical mass, something will spark a violent clash, and that will be used to implement martial law. From that point, public protests will be outlawed and dealt with severely.

LOL!....
Have you NOT SEEN what these CRIMINALS have done "BEFORE TRUMP CALLED FOR REINFORCEMENTS" ????....

You people are lost .

 

[Gardener]

So your business was burned down or were you speaking figuratively?

Is this an issue with you are were you burned out?

Yes, you have no empathy for the innocent people having their businesses burned. You had already made that clear.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Yes, you have no empathy for the innocent people having their businesses burned. You had already made that clear.

Accuse and insult away.

I'm done here

 

[antiquity]

Yep, congressional seats are based on population (via the 10 year census), which includes illegal aliens.

So is that the reason liberal/progressives/democrat want illegal aliens to stay in California? If all the illegal aliens were deported out of California they would lose a couple seats in Congress. I see your reasoning.

 

[Fletch]

Again, not a lib.

Again, coming from a law enforcer's threat assessment professional take on what is within the realm of the possible. Likely is a different story but I would put is at a solid 3 out of 10 that Trump is capable of using Marshall Law at least regionally and 7 out of 10 that he would claim insurrection to impose local use of troops to make arrests. He has already stated he would invoke the latter, which is why I make it at over a 66% chance he would make good on the threat given an excuse to do so.

We'll see what happens on Saturday.

And when nothing happens and you come out from under your bed, hopefully you will start to question some of the premises you hold that are clearly unhinged.

 

[weaver2]

ht.

So is that the reason liberal/progressives/democrat want illegal aliens to stay in California? If all the illegal aliens were deported out of California they would lose a couple seats in Congress. I see your reasoning.

California is monumentally underrepresented in Congress even with immigrants, most of whom are only illegal because the government refuses to fund enough courts and judges to address their requests for asylum. It would cost less to fund the needed courts than what we pay for in walls, fences, concertina wire in the Rio, surveillance systems, border patrol, ICE, rioting caused by haters on both sides, time wasted in Congress arguing over "illegals" problem and lost tax dollars.

 

[antiquity]

ht.
California is monumentally underrepresented in Congress even with immigrants, most of whom are only illegal because the government refuses to fund enough courts and judges to address their requests for asylum. It would cost less to fund the needed courts than what we pay for in walls, fences, concertina wire in the Rio, surveillance systems, border patrol, ICE, rioting caused by haters on both sides, time wasted in Congress arguing over "illegals" problem and lost tax dollars.

So you think we should fund enough courts and judges to find out the somewhere around 20+ million illegal aliens need asylum...or 20+ illegal aliens are trying to scam the system with an asylum claim. How many courts or judges would need to handle the immigration problem especially when most illegals when ordered to deport don't leave. For example the so called 'Maryland Man' was ordered deported two times and never left the country.

 

[weaver2]

So you think we should fund enough courts and judges to find out the somewhere around 20+ million illegal aliens need asylum...or 20+ illegal aliens are trying to scam the system with an asylum claim. How many courts or judges would need to handle the immigration problem especially when most illegals when ordered to deport don't leave. For example the so called 'Maryland Man' was ordered deported two times and never left the country.

I agree, we have created a problem so huge that it's impossible for the courts to resolve as should have been many years ago. The day after Ronald Reagan made all illegal immigrants citizens he should have funded the necessary immigration courts. He didn't and we again have the same huge problem.

We created this problem and now we're blaming the victims of our decision not to adequately fund immigration courts. Suppose you and I came across the border together; we followed the law and signed up for Asylum status; we waited and waited for court dates that never came; ran out of money; got jobs; got married to nice girls; bought a homes; had kids; paid taxes; wouldn't you be angry if armed men came looking to put us in jail. ............. with no due process, as promised in the Constitution. I know I'd be beyond angry.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

And when nothing happens and you come out from under your bed, hopefully you will start to question some of the premises you hold that are clearly unhinged.

Time will tell. It always does.

 

[antiquity]

I agree, we have created a problem so huge that it's impossible for the courts to resolve as should have been many years ago. The day after Ronald Reagan made all illegal immigrants citizens he should have funded the necessary immigration courts. He didn't and we again have the same huge problem.

Actually when Reagan granted legal status to illegal aliens he did because Democrats who held both houses promised they would fund the building of the wall...of course they never had an attention of avocation tax money for the project.

We created this problem and now we're blaming the victims of our decision not to adequately fund immigration courts. Suppose you and I came across the border together; we followed the law and signed up for Asylum status; we waited and waited for court dates that never came; ran out of money; got jobs; got married to nice girls; bought a homes; had kids; paid taxes; wouldn't you be angry if armed men came looking to put us in jail. ............. with no due process, as promised in the Constitution. I know I'd be beyond angry.

Not sure why you say 'we' as it was all on the Biden administration who created this mess with his open border policy. Now when the Trump administration is trying to clear up the illegal alien problem the left is trying to make it worst. Witness the not so 'peaceful' protesters in our cities.

 

[weaver2]

Actually when Reagan granted legal status to illegal aliens he did because Democrats who held both houses promised they would fund the building of the wall...of course they never had an attention of avocation tax money for the project.
Not sure why you say 'we' as it was all on the Biden administration who created this mess with his open border policy. Now when the Trump administration is trying to clear up the illegal alien problem the left is trying to make it worst. Witness the not so 'peaceful' protesters in our cities.

Look, could we please not play the current silly game that Trump solved the illegal immigration problem and Biden re-created it? It isn't true; you know it and I know it. It has been a problem for decades. And when an easily solvable problem goes on and on for decades accompanied by hysterical propaganda you can bet that it is a problem we are deliberately not solving because someone with political power likes illegal immigrants.

Look first at who profits from illegal immigrants. Look at who has powerful lobbies badgering Congress to keep the illegal workers coming.

Look at all the pretend solutions that have not worked, that have been circumvented or torn down or tunneled under, simply ignored or endured.

Look at how our Constitution allows us to legally deal with this problem and ask why we haven't been doing those things we can do.