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Is this case of forcing values that goes against religion wrong?

Is this case of forcing values that goes against religion wrong?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 61.5%
  • No

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13

kaya'08

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A Roman Catholic adoption charity's appeal to be allowed to discriminate against gay people wanting it to place children with them has been rejected.

Catholic Care wanted exemption from new anti-discrimination laws so it could limit services provided to homosexual couples on religious grounds.

The Charity Commission said gay people were suitable parents and religious views did not justify discrimination.

BBC News - Catholic charity's appeal over gay adoption fails

I would personally love to hear what you guys have to say.
 

samsmart

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A Roman Catholic adoption charity's appeal to be allowed to discriminate against gay people wanting it to place children with them has been rejected.

Catholic Care wanted exemption from new anti-discrimination laws so it could limit services provided to homosexual couples on religious grounds.

The Charity Commission said gay people were suitable parents and religious views did not justify discrimination.

BBC News - Catholic charity's appeal over gay adoption fails

I would personally love to hear what you guys have to say.
No, it isn't wrong for the government to pass laws forcing religious charities to consider homosexual couples to adopt children, because adoption isn't a religious issue.
 
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Mustachio

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Woah, that's a double rainbow all the way. Great question. If one group's religious rights infringe a protected group's right to equal protection, wha happens... well, I don't know what the law in the UK says.

I would say it's not a good idea, but I'd have to think about it a whole lot more and hear what people have to say -- people like lawyers or constitutional scholars. My instinct is that the judicial branch should avoid rulings that tell religious groups what they should and shouldn't do. But if the charity is a separate entity from the church, I would agree with the ruling.

It's kind of funny, though, that homosexuals would want their children placed with a bunch of Catholics. That's just asking for trouble. Sorry, had to get that one in there.
 

ludahai

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Hold on, the question posted in the poll and the one in the thread title are not quite the same and is quite misleading... I could a moderator please clarity this and remove my vote because I voted based on the question in the thread title.

I think it is dead wrong for the Catholic charity to be forced to go against a very important religious principle to them. They have freedom of religion too. I am sure if it were an Islamic charity, the libs would defend their right to "discriminate" but since it is a Christian group... we can't have that... Sickening...

What this may result in is religious organizations getting out of the business of providing adoption services altogther, and that would be a tragedy.
 

kaya'08

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Hold on, the question posted in the poll and the one in the thread title are not quite the same and is quite misleading... I could a moderator please clarity this and remove my vote because I voted based on the question in the thread title.

I think it is dead wrong for the Catholic charity to be forced to go against a very important religious principle to them. They have freedom of religion too. I am sure if it were an Islamic charity, the libs would defend their right to "discriminate" but since it is a Christian group... we can't have that... Sickening...
I'm sorry, have i missed something? The thread title is: is this case of forcing values that goes against religion wrong?
The polls asks if its right to do so; yes or no, or other.
 

ludahai

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I'm sorry, have i missed something? The thread title is: is this case of forcing values that goes against religion wrong?
The polls asks if its right to do so; yes or no, or other.
I didn't think it was clear.... that is "this"? Is it what happened to the Catholic Church or is it referring to the thread title... if the former, my vote would be no, if the later, it would be yes...
 

PeteEU

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It is a tad misleading, as in not as clear as it could be. Had to reread it a few times to understand exactly what the OP wanted.

Yes government can enforce rules on religious organisations. Religious organisations do not dictate the law, and can not pick and choose what laws they want to follow and not. Society as a whole has dictated that discrimination based on ones sexuality is illegal and hence religious organisations have to follow said rules even if it clashes with their religious dogma. If they dont like it, then dont get involved in areas where they can come in conflict with the law. Religious freedom does not extend to open discrimination against people based on sexual orientation, religion, sex or race. All it does, is expose how outdated and backwards said religion is.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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The more important question to me is why we leave adoption services in the hands of churches in the first place, when such a thing cuts across all religious lines.
 

tacomancer

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The more important question to me is why we leave adoption services in the hands of churches in the first place, when such a thing cuts across all religious lines.
The charity aspect of it I would assume.
 

Your Star

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The more important question to me is why we leave adoption services in the hands of churches in the first place, when such a thing cuts across all religious lines.
This.

I wonder what this agency does with it's gay kids? Do they not let them in the program? It's run by a church, but it's a secular function. I'm all for a church not letting people in on their religious activities if they choose so. But this is a little more complicated.
 

kaya'08

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I didn't think it was clear.... that is "this"? Is it what happened to the Catholic Church or is it referring to the thread title... if the former, my vote would be no, if the later, it would be yes...
I will report my post and get it changed, sorry for the inconvenience guys.
 

Barbbtx

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OK the link was taking too long to load, but I think I know what this one is about.
A Catholic Church that has been doing adoptions forever, now has to stop because their faith doesn't allow for them to adopt to gays. Right?
Well that's sad IMO. They will have to give up the orphanage just because the goverment won't allow them to practice their religion. Charity work like this is what churches do. Now I guess the government will have to take tax payer money and build one and hire people or else just not have a place for the children to go.
To keep from discriminating against gays they have to discriminate against the church. I hope they can settle this for the sake of the orphans.
 

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OK the link was taking too long to load, but I think I know what this one is about.
A Catholic Church that has been doing adoptions forever, now has to stop because their faith doesn't allow for them to adopt to gays. Right?
Well that's sad IMO. They will have to give up the orphanage just because the goverment won't allow them to practice their religion. Charity work like this is what churches do. Now I guess the government will have to take tax payer money and build one and hire people or else just not have a place for the children to go.
To keep from discriminating against gays they have to discriminate against the church. I hope they can settle this for the sake of the orphans.
I don't think there making them stop. There just saying that they can't deny adoption to gay people.
 

Catz Part Deux

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People are voluntarily placing their children with this Catholic agency to handle the adoptions. I suspect that the parents place their children with them because they want their children to be raised Catholic. Private agency adoptions have a right to be just that--private. They can follow their own rules, etc.

If, however, this agency is receiving funds from the government of the UK, they aren't entitled to discriminate.
 

Redress

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I will report my post and get it changed, sorry for the inconvenience guys.
Fixed it for you.

If I remember right, this came up last year sometimes, and during that discussion it turned out that the Catholic church was taking federal money to implement it's adoption program, or it was helping administer the federal program, or something similar. If that is the case, then the government has every right to put restrictions on how it is done.

If however this is Catholic funded, and the federal government is uninvolved, then I would consider it wrong.
 

rivrrat

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I honestly have no issue with any private organization discriminating for it's employees, or customers. If it's a private company, that's their business. They should be perfectly free to do business with, or refuse to do business with whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish. (ditto for hiring/firing)

But, if this is a charity that is receiving govt assistance in some way - like tax breaks or funding - then they should lose all govt assistance if they wish to continue to discriminate. Should they be allowed to do it? Yes. But not with taxpayer money.
 

liblady

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It is a tad misleading, as in not as clear as it could be. Had to reread it a few times to understand exactly what the OP wanted.

Yes government can enforce rules on religious organisations. Religious organisations do not dictate the law, and can not pick and choose what laws they want to follow and not. Society as a whole has dictated that discrimination based on ones sexuality is illegal and hence religious organisations have to follow said rules even if it clashes with their religious dogma. If they dont like it, then dont get involved in areas where they can come in conflict with the law. Religious freedom does not extend to open discrimination against people based on sexual orientation, religion, sex or race. All it does, is expose how outdated and backwards said religion is.

they can go elsewhere to adopt. the church should not be forced to allow them to adopt, as long as the church is operating without public funds. period, period, period.
 

FilmFestGuy

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This.

I wonder what this agency does with it's gay kids? Do they not let them in the program? It's run by a church, but it's a secular function. I'm all for a church not letting people in on their religious activities if they choose so. But this is a little more complicated.
Exactly - adoption services are a secular function of a charity formed by a church - as opposed to it being the church directly.

IF they wish to be in the adoption game, then they must follow state law. The state isn't going into the church and telling them what to do. The state is telling their secular charity (Catholic Charities is a 501(c)(3) set up by the Church to deliver services to the poor - it is NOT the Church in and of its self) that it has to obey state law.

Sorry, but that's the fact.
 

Redress

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Some additional information on this. Source: Catholic charity loses appeal over gay adoption | Mail Online

The commission found that:

* It was beneficial to children waiting to be adopted to have as wide a pool of prospective parents as possible.
* Discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation was serious as it departed from the principle of treating people equally.
* Even if Catholic Care closed, children would still be placed into adoptive care by other means.
* Local authority officials found gay couples were often suitable prospective parents for 'hard to place children'.
* Respect for religious views was not a justification for discriminating against gays, because of the essentially public nature of adoption services.
 
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ludahai

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I don't think there making them stop. There just saying that they can't deny adoption to gay people.
But then they will have to stop or find some accomodation because of the church's stance against homosexuality. The biggest losers are the kids and potential adoptive parents...
 

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But then they will have to stop or find some accomodation because of the church's stance against homosexuality. The biggest losers are the kids and potential adoptive parents...
This is correct. If Catholic Care adopts to gay couples, the church will pull funding and connections with them. What the commission who rules on this found was that this would not have a significant effect on the ability of people to get adopted children, and children to be adopted.

I am still looking, and not finding, whether Catholic Care takes money from the UK government, or if this is administering an overall UK federal program. Can any one help me find this info?
 

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I agree with this; the government has policies that any agency (religious or not) would have to follow. If the group does not wish to follow it, then they don't have to participate.
 

Ikari

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A Roman Catholic adoption charity's appeal to be allowed to discriminate against gay people wanting it to place children with them has been rejected.

Catholic Care wanted exemption from new anti-discrimination laws so it could limit services provided to homosexual couples on religious grounds.

The Charity Commission said gay people were suitable parents and religious views did not justify discrimination.

BBC News - Catholic charity's appeal over gay adoption fails

I would personally love to hear what you guys have to say.
If it's a private adoption agency which helps couples find a child for them; then they should be free to do as they like. If it were a government run adoption agency; then no. But as far as I see in this case, the Catholic Church should have been free to refuse its service to people they don't want to serve.
 

Goobieman

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This happened in the UK, so its impossible to argue this one way or the other w/o knowledge of the relevant laws, etc.

In the US...
If said organization was operating with completely private funds, it has the right to refuse its services to anyone. If it was operating with state funds, then it cannot.
 
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