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Is this a lie?

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Goobieman

Goobieman

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Obama: Surge Succeeded Beyond ‘Wildest Dreams’
The troop surge in Iraq has been more successful than anyone could have imagined, Barack Obama conceded Thursday in his first-ever interview on FOX News’ “The O’Reilly Factor.”

As recently as July, the Democratic presidential candidate declined to rate the surge a success, but said it had helped reduce violence in the country. On Thursday, Obama acknowledged the 2007 increase in U.S. troops has benefited the Iraqi people.

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”
Click to expand...
Obama: Surge Succeeded Beyond ‘Wildest Dreams’ - America’s Election HQ

Question:
The statment:
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,”
Is this a lie, or was he simply wrong?
 
Goobieman said:
-- "I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,”
Is this a lie, or was he simply wrong?
Click to expand...

Time is the only way to tell. He and everyone might be wrong now but in 10 years time if the mullahs have overthrown everything the US and Haliburton have built and destroyed it - who will remember the "surge?"

However, as we are in election season, I don't think anyone will be too interested in the real Iraq story - this is a politicking story at best.
 
So he had to throw in the Halliburton remark.....show some class.
 
Because it might be unclear...

Question:
The statment:
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,”
Is this a lie, or was he simply wrong?
 
Goobieman said:
Because it might be unclear...

Question:
The statment:
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,”
Is this a lie, or was he simply wrong?
Click to expand...
Well, what ways is he talking about? It's not clear from the article linked and I didn't watch the show either.
 
shuamort said:
Well, what ways is he talking about? It's not clear from the article linked and I didn't watch the show either.
Click to expand...
The point here is that he claimed that no one anticipated the surge working.
 
Goobieman said:
The point here is that he claimed that no one anticipated the surge working.
Click to expand...

I'm reading that statement completely differently than you:
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,”
As in "here were some unexpected outcomes that weren't forecasted... like the Space Program bringing us Tang and Velcro, we didn't anticipate those items as they're tangental".


But I can also see how it can be read like "no one anticipated that surge would work". The language is a bit muddied so I would like to see more context. Is there a transcript available?
 
shuamort said:
But I can also see how it can be read like "no one anticipated that surge would work". The language is a bit muddied so I would like to see more context. Is there a transcript available?
Click to expand...

Not that I know of. Might need to look the the source posted.
 
Goobieman said:
The point here is that he claimed that no one anticipated the surge working.
Click to expand...

There's the lie. link to an Obama quote where he says - no one anticipated the surge working - No one anticipated XX (choose your disaster) is the Bush administration line.

The "surge" didn't work. The military part of the surge HELPED reduce violence but the rest of the "surge", the reason for troop increase, is still undetermined. Not to mention that a lot of the reason for less violence in Iraq came from our troops... in the form of them handing out millions in cash to religious and neighborhood leaders.

That part of the surge worked great! We should all be very proud that we quelled the violence by making rich, the people who were killing our troops. Hey, kill a few Marines and get a cash reward... nice. :beam:
 
The front page of foxnews.com has a link to the video. I'll watch it now.
 
Slippery Slope said:
The "surge" didn't work. The military part of the surge HELPED reduce violence but the rest of the "surge", the reason for troop increase, is still undetermined.
Click to expand...
What is it you think the surge was intended to do?
 
It starts at 3:21 (on the countdown counter). I watched it twice and I honestly can't figure out his point. It seems to me that he's saying two things. So, either he's putting a very fine point on it with exceptions or I'm missing something or he's just being a politician.
 
shuamort said:
It starts at 3:21 (on the countdown counter). I watched it twice and I honestly can't figure out his point. It seems to me that he's saying two things. So, either he's putting a very fine point on it with exceptions or I'm missing something or he's just being a politician.
Click to expand...
You would agree, however, that there were at least several prominent somebodies that believed the surge would work - yes?
 
Goobieman said:
You would agree, however, that there were at least several prominent somebodies that believed the surge would work - yes?
Click to expand...

Why is this a question? Obama's statement doesn't say the surge didn't work or that no one thought the surge would work. He said it worked in ways not anticipated by those that thought it would work.

To qualify his statement and give a valid response to your question you would need to provide quotes from individuals that were for the surge and their expected outcome directly from the surge.
 
Gibberish said:
Why is this a question? Obama's statement doesn't say the surge didn't work or that no one thought the surge would work. He said it worked in ways not anticipated by those that thought it would work.
Click to expand...
Do you think thatis true -- that the surge worked in ways no one thought?
If so, please specify.
 
Goobieman said:
Time is the only way to tell that nobody anticipated the success of the surge?
Click to expand...

I'd say exactly "yes". We are still involved and things change constantly - the definition of success NOW won't be the same as the definitions of success in 10 20 years time.

As I said, the success of the surge won't mean anything if once the US and UK have left the govt is overthrown and a jihadist state is put in place will it? And as I said previously - that is not really the intent of the thread is it? The intent is simply a current US political point scoring exercise.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I'd say exactly "yes". We are still involved and things change constantly - the definition of success NOW won't be the same as the definitions of success in 10 20 years time.
Click to expand...
Ah. So, the goalposts can just keep shifting. :roll:

IMHO, Obama is saying that no one thought the surge would work.
That is patently untrue.
And so, the question needs to be asked -- is his statement a lie, or is he just wrong?
Either answer sheds light.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Yes, most of us are not suprised it worked. Obama was one of a few who are shocked at the expected performance of our troops. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Shocked is the wrong word.
Distraught.
 
I feel that the surge has worked in lowering the levels of violence in Iraq, but the overall implications are null as far as changing Iraq. The people still love Sadhr more than the U.S. and once we pull-out it will relapse back to chaos.

I, even as a liberal, supported the surge and thought it should have been done from the beginning, minus the alienation of the Baathists. If this would have been done, and the Baathists included, the Iraqi forces would have had the benefit of having trained forces from the beginning and a large population of people would not have joined extremist forces. But after all of the mishandling the surge has worked as well as it could. Thus, Obama is wrong about nobody expecting the success, but correct when he says it has not cured the problem.

The surge is simply a band-aid on a gash wound, it slows the bleeding but when removed it continues.
 
tlmorg02 said:
-- The surge is simply a band-aid on a gash wound, it slows the bleeding but when removed it continues.
Click to expand...

Careful, you'll be accused of shifting the goalposts too...
 
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