Is there going to be an automatic recount for the Casey vs. McCormick Senate race in PA?

[eohrnberger]

Another PA SC ruling...

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/18/nx-s1-5195524/pennsylvania-election-ballots-senate-recount

"
In a new ruling on Monday, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court directed all of the state's county election officials not to count certain mail-in ballots for this year's general election that arrived on time but in envelopes without the correct dates handwritten by voters.

The order, prompted by a request from the Republican National Committee and Pennsylvania's Republican Party, is the latest development in a long-running legal battle over what to do when absentee voters don't follow an artifact of the state's election rules. The provision, which requires a voter to sign and date their ballot's outer return envelope, has drawn a tangle of lawsuits since Pennsylvania started allowing no-excuse voting by mail in 2020.

Despite similar orders by the state's high court leading up to Election Day on what are often called "undated" or misdated ballots, some local election officials had in recent days decided to include these ballots in their official tallies, prompting outcry from Republicans.


The state's high court, however, rebuked local officials who voted to count these kinds of ballots with an order that the justices said "shall be authoritative and controlling."

"No more excuses," Michael Whatley, the RNC's chair, said in a post on X after the court's ruling. "Election officials in Bucks, Montgomery, Philadelphia, and other counties have absolutely no choice."



"

Bucks County commissioners vote to count illegal ballots in Pennsylvania recount​

Bucks County commissioners voted to count ballots lacking proper signatures, violating a Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling earlier this year.​

​

The three-member board voted two to one to count these illegal ballots in the Senate race recount.​

​

“I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country, and people violate laws anytime they want,” Diane Marseglia said. “So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it.”​

MSN

So we have apparently Democrat openly violating the law and Pen. Supreme Court ruling and bragging about it in order to have the election results they demand?

Trying to steal this election? Democrats showing their true colors, and their disregard for the rule of law.

Talk about denigrating and degrading both the institution of the rule of law and the institution of elections and election integrity.

Gov. Josh Shapiro hasn't bothered to address this clearly state issue?

 

[SuperDS77]

Bucks County commissioners vote to count illegal ballots in Pennsylvania recount​

Bucks County commissioners voted to count ballots lacking proper signatures, violating a Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling earlier this year.​

​

The three-member board voted two to one to count these illegal ballots in the Senate race recount.​

​

“I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country, and people violate laws anytime they want,” Diane Marseglia said. “So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it.”​

MSN

So we have apparently Democrat openly violating the law and Pen. Supreme Court ruling and bragging about it in order to have the election results they demand?

Trying to steal this election? Democrats showing their true colors, and their disregard for the rule of law.

Talk about denigrating and degrading both the institution of the rule of law and the institution of elections and election integrity.

Gov. Josh Shapiro hasn't bothered to address this clearly state issue?

Believe it or not, he has. Siding with the PA supreme court.

Pennsylvania Dem Gov. Josh Shapiro sides with state supreme court ruling not to count certain mail-in ballots

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro came out Monday and sided with the state's supreme court over a ruling about the counting of mail-in ballots.

www.foxnews.com

"
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro is siding with the state's high court after the justices ruled that faulty mail-in ballots can’t be counted amid a contentious recount, delivering a victory to Republican Party officials.

The state Supreme Court reaffirmed its prior decision in a 4–3 ruling Monday that counties cannot count incorrectly dated or undated ballots. The decision singled out the Boards of Elections in Bucks County, Montgomery County, and Philadelphia County, whom they said "SHALL COMPLY with the prior rulings of this Court in which we have clarified" for mail-in and absentee ballots in their Nov. 1 ruling.

"Any insinuation that our laws can be ignored or do not matter is irresponsible and does damage to faith in our electoral process," said Shapiro, a Democrat. "The rule of law matters in Pennsylvania. … It is critical for counties in both parties to respect it with both their rhetoric and their actions.""

 

[eohrnberger]

Believe it or not, he has. Siding with the PA supreme court.

Pennsylvania Dem Gov. Josh Shapiro sides with state supreme court ruling not to count certain mail-in ballots

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro came out Monday and sided with the state's supreme court over a ruling about the counting of mail-in ballots.

www.foxnews.com

"
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro is siding with the state's high court after the justices ruled that faulty mail-in ballots can’t be counted amid a contentious recount, delivering a victory to Republican Party officials.

The state Supreme Court reaffirmed its prior decision in a 4–3 ruling Monday that counties cannot count incorrectly dated or undated ballots. The decision singled out the Boards of Elections in Bucks County, Montgomery County, and Philadelphia County, whom they said "SHALL COMPLY with the prior rulings of this Court in which we have clarified" for mail-in and absentee ballots in their Nov. 1 ruling.

"Any insinuation that our laws can be ignored or do not matter is irresponsible and does damage to faith in our electoral process," said Shapiro, a Democrat. "The rule of law matters in Pennsylvania. … It is critical for counties in both parties to respect it with both their rhetoric and their actions.""

Good. I'll admit I was not aware that Shapiro had released a statement on this.

It should be noted that Dems can't be trusted with counting election ballots.
“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.” is their value which they are show.

 

[LoreD]

Trump campaign has been talking a lot of bullshit for most of the election, so I wouldn't put much stock in what they say.

I haven't kept close track, but I know there were multiple court rulings just before the election.
I think the last one said that mail-in ballots with no or an incorrect date on the outside envelope could not be counted. I'd have to check to be sure.

Last time I checked on the unofficial vote count the state provides here, McCormick was ahead by a bit less than 18,000 votes, so I'm not sure whether however many ballots fit into that definition will matter. I recall someone speculating it might apply to a few thousand or so, before the election.
The vote count is definitely within the margin that triggers an automatic recount, so we probably won't know that result for awhile.


That said, I disagree with calling ballots like that "faulty". It's quite literally not the ballot that is an issue in that case, it's the lack of a date on the outside of the envelope it was delivered in.
I'm actually wondering what an "incorrect date" might be. Maybe if someone wrote a wildly wrong date on it?

Edit: Actually, what is the reasoning behind the rule about dated and signed envelopes?

The argument from the county officials is that the handwritten date on the ballot is irrelevant. The post office date stamps the mailed envelopes, and the ballot box ballots are date stamped by election officials. The officials believe that the only date that matter is the postmarked stamped date, or the election officials date time stamped on the ballot.

The Republican argument would be similar to the IRS refusing to accept my tax return because I didn't fill in the handwritten date next to my signature; even though the post office date is stamped on my return.

 

[The Mark]

Bucks County commissioners vote to count illegal ballots in Pennsylvania recount​

Bucks County commissioners voted to count ballots lacking proper signatures, violating a Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling earlier this year.​

​

The three-member board voted two to one to count these illegal ballots in the Senate race recount.​

​

“I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country, and people violate laws anytime they want,” Diane Marseglia said. “So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it.”​

MSN

So we have apparently Democrat openly violating the law and Pen. Supreme Court ruling and bragging about it in order to have the election results they demand?

Trying to steal this election? Democrats showing their true colors, and their disregard for the rule of law.

Talk about denigrating and degrading both the institution of the rule of law and the institution of elections and election integrity.

Gov. Josh Shapiro hasn't bothered to address this clearly state issue?

I think that they disagree (apparently very strongly) with the court ruling, think that those ballots are legitimate votes (as, likely, they are), and that dismissing a person's vote because they forgot to write a date on an outside envelope is bullshit.

Thus, they are intentionally going against the SCOPA ruling, to make a point.

Edit: I assume they won't be allowed to do this in the end, but they appear willing to face the consequences of doing it anyway.

Edit 2: Does anyone know how many ballots fit into that category? Is it enough to change the election result?

 

[eohrnberger]

I think that they disagree (apparently very strongly) with the court ruling, think that those ballots are legitimate votes (as, likely, they are), and that dismissing a person's vote because they forgot to write a date on an outside envelope is bullshit.

Whether you believe or they believe it's bullshit or not is irrelevant.

Whether those are the Pennsylvanian election laws and regulations which have legally and legitimately passed the Pennsylvanian state legislature and legally and legitimately signed into law is absolutely relevant.
Also relevant is if the Pennsylvanian Supreme court has rendered a decision, one which they are mandated to comply with?

If you believe or they believe it's bullshit getting the Pennsylvanian state legislature to change that state's election laws and regulations is the legal remedy.

Thus, they are intentionally going against the SCOPA ruling, to make a point.

Fine, then they can, and should be, arrested and charged with contempt of court, and the ballot count finishes compliant with Pennsylvanian Supreme court ruling.
Further, they should be permanently banned from ever holding the position they presently have.

Edit: I assume they won't be allowed to do this in the end, but they appear willing to face the consequences of doing it anyway.

Yeah, after they saw that the Democrat in that race was going to lose.
Do you believe they'd have done the same if the Democrat was going to win?

So we are seeing these people's reaction to an election out come they didn't like and didn't want, would have cheated, would have altered the election outcome, to get the election result they did want. These are people which most certainly are not someone you want to have anywhere near elections or ballot counting, hence the permanent ban I mentioned above.

Edit 2: Does anyone know how many ballots fit into that category? Is it enough to change the election result?

Compliance with a legal and legitimate court ruling is only required on when compliance with that ruling only changes the election results? I think not.

 

[The Mark]

Whether you believe or they believe it's bullshit or not is irrelevant.

Whether those are the Pennsylvanian election laws and regulations which have legally and legitimately passed the Pennsylvanian state legislature and legally and legitimately signed into law is absolutely relevant.
Also relevant is if the Pennsylvanian Supreme court has rendered a decision, one which they are mandated to comply with?

If you believe or they believe it's bullshit getting the Pennsylvanian state legislature to change that state's election laws and regulations is the legal remedy.


Fine, then they can, and should be, arrested and charged with contempt of court, and the ballot count finishes compliant with Pennsylvanian Supreme court ruling.
Further, they should be permanently banned from ever holding the position they presently have.


Yeah, after they saw that the Democrat in that race was going to lose.
Do you believe they'd have done the same if the Democrat was going to win?

So we are seeing these people's reaction to an election out come they didn't like and didn't want, would have cheated, would have altered the election outcome, to get the election result they did want. These are people which most certainly are not someone you want to have anywhere near elections or ballot counting, hence the permanent ban I mentioned above.


Compliance with a legal and legitimate court ruling is only required on when compliance with that ruling only changes the election results? I think not.

Actually, I was just wondering if it would matter either way.

They can do whatever their conscience says they must, but I'm here to figure out whether it will change the election at all.

Edit: By which I mean, will the current number of legitimate votes change enough to overcome what appears to be a 17,000-18,000 vote lead that McCormick has.



Edit 2: I am operating in a reality in which there was no election fraud or vote fraud in 2020 significant enough to change results, and in which the current Democrats insisting on counting these ballots think the ballots they are counting are legitimate (even if legally disallowed).

In that reality, they want to count the votes because they think they are legitimate votes, regardless of whether it will change the election.

Edit 3: By "legitimate", I mean "a qualified voter filled out the ballot, and expects their vote to be counted."

 

[eohrnberger]

Actually, I was just wondering if it would matter either way.

They can do whatever their conscience says they must, but I'm here to figure out whether it will change the election at all.

Edit: By which I mean, will the current number of legitimate votes change enough to overcome what appears to be a 17,000-18,000 vote lead that McCormick has.
View attachment 67543804


Edit 2: I am operating in a reality in which there was no election fraud or vote fraud in 2020 significant enough to change results, and in which the current Democrats insisting on counting these ballots think the ballots they are counting are legitimate (even if legally disallowed).

The reality is that legally disallowed ballots aren't legitimate.

In that reality, they want to count the votes because they think they are legitimate votes, regardless of whether it will change the election.

I suspect that they want to set this a precedence for the next election.

Edit 3: By "legitimate", I mean "a qualified voter filled out the ballot, and expects their vote to be counted."

I think you are missing 'correctly' filled out ballot. The court has ruled that incorrectly filled out ballots are legally disallowed and therefore are illegitimate ballots.
A voter could easily avoid all this and vote in a polling place on the day of the election. Even NYT has long ago reported that mail-in ballots have a higher rejection rate than in person voting.

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises (Published 2012)

Nationwide, mailed ballots now account for nearly 20 percent of votes, yet such ballots are more likely to be compromised, and contested, than those cast in person, statistics show.

www.nytimes.com

Nationwide, mailed ballots now account for nearly 20 percent of votes, yet such ballots are more likely to be compromised, and contested, than those cast in person, statistics show.​

(Non-Paywalled)​

 

[The Mark]

The reality is that legally disallowed ballots aren't legitimate.


I suspect that they want to set this a precedence for the next election.


I think you are missing 'correctly' filled out ballot. The court has ruled that incorrectly filled out ballots are legally disallowed and therefore are illegitimate ballots.
A voter could easily avoid all this and vote in a polling place on the day of the election. Even NYT has long ago reported that mail-in ballots have a higher rejection rate than in person voting.

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises (Published 2012)

Nationwide, mailed ballots now account for nearly 20 percent of votes, yet such ballots are more likely to be compromised, and contested, than those cast in person, statistics show.

www.nytimes.com

Nationwide, mailed ballots now account for nearly 20 percent of votes, yet such ballots are more likely to be compromised, and contested, than those cast in person, statistics show.​

(Non-Paywalled)​

My point is that the ballot itself - the tri-folded piece of heavy paper you selected candidates on - is correctly filled out.
And, ideally, was then inserted into the secrecy envelope, which was sealed and in turn inserted into the outside (mailing) envelope, which was signed and dated before being mailed to or dropped off at the county election offices.

For whatever legal or political reasons, PA has decided that if someone fails to correctly fill out the outside envelope the ballots are mailed in, that counts as incorrectly filling out the ballot, or some such.

I do not understand the reasoning behind that, but it is the law currently.

----------------

Edit: As someone who works in IT, I've repeatedly experienced the reality that, in a correctly set up computer system, the only remaining point of failure is humans.

From my experience using the current mail-in ballot system in PA, as compared with the one time in the past 2 years I used the polling place option, there are definitely more places human error could result in an issue.
I personally think that's manageable, in exchange for the convenience of being able to sit at my desk and research candidates while I fill out the ballot.

 

[The Mark]

A battle over mail ballots in Pennsylvania is latest example of messy disputes over election rules

The recount underway in Pennsylvania’s U.S. Senate race marks the end of a chaotic post-election period that has become the latest example of how disputed election rules can expose weak points in a core function of American democracy.

apnews.com

The recount underway in Pennsylvania’s U.S. Senate race marks the end of a chaotic post-election period that has become the latest example of how disputed election rules can expose weak points in a core function of American democracy.

The ballot-counting process in the race between incumbent Democratic Sen. Bob Casey and Republican David McCormick has become a spectacle of hours-long election board meetings, social media outrage, lawsuits and accusations that some county officials are openly flouting the law.

Pennsylvania Supreme Court Delivers Emergency Ballot Ruling in Tight Senate Race

Key Senate race hangs in the balance.

conservativebrief.com

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court clamped down on what appeared to be an effort by Democrat-run counties to count ballots that justices and state law had determined were illegal and, therefore, ineligible to be tallied.

The new order comes following a declaration by Democratic officials in Bucks County and elsewhere of their intention to count ballots that did not meet legal standards amid a tight race between incumbent Democratic Sen. Bob Casey and GOP challenger Dave McCormack, a race in which the AP called last week for the Republican.

 

[The Mark]

Pennsylvania Supreme Court orders election officials to stop counting ballots with date errors

The ruling is a win for Republican Dave McCormick, who holds a narrow lead over Democratic Sen. Bob Casey in a Senate race that's headed to a recount this week.

www.nbcnews.com

Pennsylvania Supreme Court orders election officials to stop counting ballots with date errors​

The ruling is a win for Republican Dave McCormick, who holds a narrow lead over Democratic Sen. Bob Casey in a Senate race that's headed to a recount this week.


The Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Monday ordered election officials in the state to stop counting mail-in ballots marked with the wrong date or missing dates from their outer envelopes.

The court order specifies that Bucks, Montgomery and Philadelphia counties, where Republicans argue that officials have opted to count mail-in ballots with errors on their outer envelopes, must adhere to the high court's earlier rulings, which said undated or misdated mail-in ballots should not be counted.

McCormick declared victory Friday after The Associated Press projected him the winner. NBC News has not yet projected a winner in the race, which remains too close to call. McCormick leads Casey by 17,408 votes with 99.7% of the vote in and 24,000 ballots still to be counted.

Pennsylvania rules trigger a recount of ballots when the margin is less than 0.5 percentage points. The recount, set to begin this week, must be completed by noon Nov. 26.

So we'll likely get some kind of results on or before November 26th.

 

[eohrnberger]

My point is that the ballot itself - the tri-folded piece of heavy paper you selected candidates on - is correctly filled out.
And, ideally, was then inserted into the secrecy envelope, which was sealed and in turn inserted into the outside (mailing) envelope, which was signed and dated before being mailed to or dropped off at the county election offices.

Yes. According to PA law, if mail-in ballots do not have all those things, they aren't fully completed and not fully accurate, then they are not legal and legitimate ballots.
Pretty clear that you don't like this. Do you live in PA?
If not, then what's your concern?
(This the same logic of election fraud is OK just as long as it doesn't change the election outcome).

For whatever legal or political reasons, PA has decided that if someone fails to correctly fill out the outside envelope the ballots are mailed in, that counts as incorrectly filling out the ballot, or some such.

Correct.

I do not understand the reasoning behind that, but it is the law currently.

Contact the PA state legislature, dig out the debate notes when the legislation went to the floor for debate, consult public statements on the legislation by the legislators, all avenues for the info you are asking about, I'd guess.

----------------

Edit: As someone who works in IT, I've repeatedly experienced the reality that, in a correctly set up computer system, the only remaining point of failure is humans.

As someone who's been in IT since '85, I'd agree with that assessment, but I'd further say that no election system should ever be connected to the Internet, no election system should ever be employed as the system of record, and that paper ballots always need to be maintained and be the official ballot record.

As one who works in IT, surely you can recognize the Internet threat environment which makes the above a hard requirement, yes?

'Online and vulnerable': Experts find nearly three dozen U.S. voting systems connected to internet​

A team of election security experts used a “Google for servers” to challenge claims that voting machines do not connect to the internet and found some did.​

Experts find more than 30 U.S. voting systems connected to internet

A team of election security experts used a “Google for servers” to challenge claims that voting machines do not connect to the internet and found some did.

www.nbcnews.com

Even with paper ballots as backup, just look at the level of consternation present. Change to an online voting system, vulnerable to someone breaching it and changing results, can you imagine the level of consternation then? Way too much to risk that consequence.

From my experience using the current mail-in ballot system in PA, as compared with the one time in the past 2 years I used the polling place option, there are definitely more places human error could result in an issue.
I personally think that's manageable,

Opinion so noted.

in exchange for the convenience of being able to sit at my desk and research candidates while I fill out the ballot.

What would be the issue with researching the candidates before hand, the contents of the ballots are public way before the election day, and taking your notes / choices into the ballot booth? This is basically what I do, but I cheat a bit, as I keep my notes on my phone, which I have in the ballot booth.

Funny story. I was voting and in the next booth a guy pulled out his iPhone and asked Siri 'Heads or Tails', to help him make some of his choices. Not enough research I guess.

 

[The Mark]

Yes. According to PA law, if mail-in ballots do not have all those things, they aren't fully completed and not fully accurate, then they are not legal and legitimate ballots.
Pretty clear that you don't like this. Do you live in PA?
If not, then what's your concern?
(This the same logic of election fraud is OK just as long as it doesn't change the election outcome).


Correct.


Contact the PA state legislature, dig out the debate notes when the legislation went to the floor for debate, consult public statements on the legislation by the legislators, all avenues for the info you are asking about, I'd guess.


As someone who's been in IT since '85, I'd agree with that assessment, but I'd further say that no election system should ever be connected to the Internet, no election system should ever be employed as the system of record, and that paper ballots always need to be maintained and be the official ballot record.

As one who works in IT, surely you can recognize the Internet threat environment which makes the above a hard requirement, yes?

'Online and vulnerable': Experts find nearly three dozen U.S. voting systems connected to internet​

A team of election security experts used a “Google for servers” to challenge claims that voting machines do not connect to the internet and found some did.​

Experts find more than 30 U.S. voting systems connected to internet

A team of election security experts used a “Google for servers” to challenge claims that voting machines do not connect to the internet and found some did.

www.nbcnews.com

Even with paper ballots as backup, just look at the level of consternation present. Change to an online voting system, vulnerable to someone breaching it and changing results, can you imagine the level of consternation then? Way too much to risk that consequence.


Opinion so noted.


What would be the issue with researching the candidates before hand, the contents of the ballots are public way before the election day, and taking your notes / choices into the ballot booth? This is basically what I do, but I cheat a bit, as I keep my notes on my phone, which I have in the ballot booth.

Funny story. I was voting and in the next booth a guy pulled out his iPhone and asked Siri 'Heads or Tails', to help him make some of his choices. Not enough research I guess.

I do live in PA.
I have a problem with the current law because, as I see it, the purpose of the ballot is to communicate the voter's choices in the election to the election system.

If there is a person who is eligible to vote, and they vote by mail-in ballot, but forget one of the steps, we are preventing them from exercising their voting power, for reasons which I question the validity of.

It seems to me that there must be a method allowing them to correct any error in that ballot or it's delivery method. And/or we need to come up with a better way of tracking mail-in ballots, which does not rely on human action which is inherently prone to error.

The last time I went to vote in person they told me I could not look up notes on my phone. Unsure why. I ended up borrowing a piece of paper and writing them down. I might need to check on current law for that.

 

[eohrnberger]

I do live in PA.
I have a problem with the current law because, as I see it, the purpose of the ballot is to communicate the voter's choices in the election to the election system.

OK.

If there is a person who is eligible to vote, and they vote by mail-in ballot, but forget one of the steps, we are preventing them from exercising their voting power, for reasons which I question the validity of.

Regardless, per the legal definition, it is an ineligible vote.
There is no one and nothing which is preventing them from exercising their right to vote, other than their own inattentiveness.

If the voter makes the choice of mail-in ballot, the onus is on them to fully and correctly complete their mail-in ballot. Conversely, the voter can chose to vote in person at their polling location, and have a far less paperwork detail to attend to to submit a legal and eligible vote.
In order for the voter to avail themselves of their right to vote, to participate in their democracy, there also comes some responsibilities and obligations.
It's not up to that Democracy to go chasing after them.

If you start dropping these requirements for mail-in ballots, you end up with submitted ballot count irregularities, such as which has been called out in other threads:

Yep, but WHY?


True.


He knew there was shenanigans in 2020 (on both sides obviously).

This election proved it to many.

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to go through that post-election mess again.

If this means that there are minor requirements for mail-in ballots which mail-in voters need to adhere to, I'm fine with that.

Election security and integrity need to be maintained, as does the voters belief that they are free, fair and accurate elections, for if they don't, the results aren't pretty at all, and I want to avoid those results as well.

It seems to me that there must be a method allowing them to correct any error in that ballot or it's delivery method.

I believe that mail-in ballots are reviewed for accuracy and completeness, and if a ballot is in error, isn't the voter notified of such and can come to the appropriate office to issue a correction?

And/or we need to come up with a better way of tracking mail-in ballots, which does not rely on human action which is inherently prone to error.

At the risk of compromising the secrecy of the ballot? (To some extent, the mail-in voter has already volunteered to do so).

The last time I went to vote in person they told me I could not look up notes on my phone. Unsure why. I ended up borrowing a piece of paper and writing them down. I might need to check on current law for that.

 

[gman]

I’ve read posts on DP that voters who vote democrat are smarter and better educated than the riff-raffs who voted for Trump. And being this whole brouhaha is being waged because of Bucks county which supposedly has a higher education level than most of the other counties, and appears to favor democrats over republicans, why then are these highly educated residents of Bucks county so dumb, they can’t follow simple instructions?

 

[dobieg]

Believe it or not, he has. Siding with the PA supreme court.

Pennsylvania Dem Gov. Josh Shapiro sides with state supreme court ruling not to count certain mail-in ballots

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro came out Monday and sided with the state's supreme court over a ruling about the counting of mail-in ballots.

www.foxnews.com

"
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro is siding with the state's high court after the justices ruled that faulty mail-in ballots can’t be counted amid a contentious recount, delivering a victory to Republican Party officials.

The state Supreme Court reaffirmed its prior decision in a 4–3 ruling Monday that counties cannot count incorrectly dated or undated ballots. The decision singled out the Boards of Elections in Bucks County, Montgomery County, and Philadelphia County, whom they said "SHALL COMPLY with the prior rulings of this Court in which we have clarified" for mail-in and absentee ballots in their Nov. 1 ruling.

"Any insinuation that our laws can be ignored or do not matter is irresponsible and does damage to faith in our electoral process," said Shapiro, a Democrat. "The rule of law matters in Pennsylvania. … It is critical for counties in both parties to respect it with both their rhetoric and their actions.""

For a Democrat gov Shapiro is a good man and would be tolerable in higher office. Of course he's still part liberal so there is some dumbass in there.

 

[The Mark]

I’ve read posts on DP that voters who vote democrat are smarter and better educated than the riff-raffs who voted for Trump. And being this whole brouhaha is being waged because of Bucks county which supposedly has a higher education level than most of the other counties, and appears to favor democrats over republicans, why then are these highly educated residents of Bucks county so dumb, they can’t follow simple instructions?

That's not what is going on.

They disagree with the instructions, and are intentionally violating them.

 

[SuperDS77]

I’ve read posts on DP that voters who vote democrat are smarter and better educated than the riff-raffs who voted for Trump. And being this whole brouhaha is being waged because of Bucks county which supposedly has a higher education level than most of the other counties, and appears to favor democrats over republicans, why then are these highly educated residents of Bucks county so dumb, they can’t follow simple instructions?

Great points. I also wonder what the HS graduation rate is in some of the "bluest" areas of the country (i.e. Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc.)?

 

[gman]

That's not what is going on.

They disagree with the instructions, and are intentionally violating them.

Yes, they disagree, but what’s reason when the instructions and the law governing re-counts are so clear even a caveman could follow them. Their state representative had a chance to voice his/ her opinion during the discussions surrounding recounts when it came time to vote in Harrisburg.

 

[eohrnberger]

Yes, they disagree, but what’s reason when the instructions and the law governing re-counts are so clear even a caveman could follow them.

Clearly, in their minds, ideology and virtue signalling have higher priorities than being lawful.

I think they should be arrested, charged, and prosecuted, i.e. no different than anyone else which purposefully violates the law, and further, I think every one of them who supported flaunting the law and the PA Supreme Court should be banned for life from anything related to any elections or campaigns (as clearly they can't be trusted to be conduct themselves lawfully in these arenas), other than casting their own personal votes.

Their state representative had a chance to voice his/ her opinion during the discussions surrounding recounts when it came time to vote in Harrisburg.

 

[gman]

Clearly, in their minds, ideology and virtue signalling have higher priorities than being lawful.

I think they should be arrested, charged, and prosecuted, i.e. no different than anyone else which purposefully violates the law, and further, I think every one of them who supported flaunting the law and the PA Supreme Court should be banned for life from anything related to any elections or campaigns (as clearly they can't be trusted to be conduct themselves lawfully in these arenas), other than casting their own personal votes.

There’s an

 

[The Mark]

Current "unofficial results" for the PA US Senate election.

Pennsylvania Elections - Summary Results

Casey: 3382113
McCormick: 3398462

McCormick has 16,349 more votes.

 

[Phys251]

Current "unofficial results" for the PA US Senate election.

Pennsylvania Elections - Summary Results

View attachment 67544164
Casey: 3382113
McCormick: 3398462

McCormick has 16,349 more votes.

Look at all those Green party voters. More than enough to make up the difference.

 

[The Mark]

Yes, they disagree, but what’s reason when the instructions and the law governing re-counts are so clear even a caveman could follow them. Their state representative had a chance to voice his/ her opinion during the discussions surrounding recounts when it came time to vote in Harrisburg.

Their reason is that they think those votes are legitimate and should be counted, and probably a bit of angst and anger at Trump winning.

I'm not saying they're legally correct, I'm just saying that they aren't misunderstanding the situation.

They KNOW that PA Supreme Court said no, but they're doing it any way, and saying they are knowingly doing so if asked.

 

[The Mark]

Look at all those Green party voters. More than enough to make up the difference.

This is why we need ranked choice elections.