Is there any way to cure a truther?[W:2707]

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I cannot show proof of your blind faith.

amazing HD.
you cannot provide evidence/proof of what you may think happened on 9/11.
If anyone here has blind faith. All you have to do is look in the mirror.:mrgreen:

 

[psikeyhackr]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

and yet the buildings collapsed. and there is no evidence of explosions, acid dissolved supports or gremlins that could have undermined the lower support structures

They were destroyed by some method. If it was a collapse then it should not be that difficult to duplicate on a small scale. Curious that no engineering school has managed it in 12 years. Has any said they would try?

psik

 

[Kat Dorman]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

If it was a collapse then it should not be that difficult to duplicate on a small scale.

Why do you say it shouldn't be difficult? What do you base that on?

I've told you MANY times that it IS difficult, and have explained exactly why in terms a grade schooler could understand. You've never once even acknowledged that I've done so. Not an argument, nothing.

It is EASY to make a model that arrests: any stack of wood blocks, cinder blocks (Cole), books - even paper loops.

 

[505]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Suppose you enlighten us with what is relevant?

Enlighten you? Doubtful. You can't even see how ridiculous your no-plane theory is.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

No. You can't cure one that does not think there is a problem any more than you can cure an alcoholic that thinks they aren't one.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Enlighten you? Doubtful. You can't even see how ridiculous your no-plane theory is.

When people start talking about holograms and stuff I know that there is no way top speak rationally with them about, probably literally, anything.

 

[505]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Curious that no engineering school has managed it in 12 years. Has any said they would try?

psik

It is not curious at all. You truthers are a insignificant fringe tiny minority group that nobody takes seriously. Nobody cares. And even if they did, you lot would just cry about how that group was "in on it too", how they are paid off by the government, how they are shills, how they have contracts they don't want to lose, etc, etc, etc. There is no teaching any of you anything. You have all made up your minds, and facts or evidence will never change that.

 

[opendebate]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

No. You can't cure one that does not think there is a problem any more than you can cure an alcoholic that thinks they aren't one.

well said.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

you got nothing but delusions and HOLOGRAMS

I don't understand why they stop with holograms though... it is an easy stretch to include an alien conspiracy.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

It is not curious at all. You truthers are a insignificant fringe tiny minority group that nobody takes seriously. Nobody cares. And even if they did, you lot would just cry about how that group was "in on it too", how they are paid off by the government, how they are shills, how they have contracts they don't want to lose, etc, etc, etc. There is no teaching any of you anything. You have all made up your minds, and facts or evidence will never change that.

Just for my own curiosity .... Please tell me what evidence convinced you that suicidal hijackers took control of airliners & crashed 3 of them into buildings? Please ... I really wanna know.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

It is not curious at all. You truthers are a insignificant fringe tiny minority group that nobody takes seriously. Nobody cares. And even if they did, you lot would just cry about how that group was "in on it too", how they are paid off by the government, how they are shills, how they have contracts they don't want to lose, etc, etc, etc. There is no teaching any of you anything. You have all made up your minds, and facts or evidence will never change that.

According to this:

Opinion polls about 9/11 conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

46% believe Al-Qeada did it.

But the word physics is not on the page.

Who did it is irrelevant. The problem is our physicists can't resolve trivia in 12 years, so that says some very curious things about this society.

psik

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Just for my own curiosity .... Please tell me what evidence convinced you that suicidal hijackers took control of airliners & crashed 3 of them into buildings? Please ... I really wanna know.

The photos of them at the airport. The flight training they undertook. The passports and boarding passes. The fact that three planes were hi jacked and seen on radar as changing course. The WTC collapses. The 3,000 plus people dead. The immense smoke cloud that enveloped New York. Want me to go on?

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?


The photos of them at the airport.
>> seeing a pix of any given individual at an airport is proof of NOTHING.

The flight training they undertook.
>> again, anybody can take flight training and that alone is NOT proof of anything.

The passports and boarding passes.
>> Passports & boarding passes are bits of paper and can so easily be faked.

The fact that three planes were hijacked and seen on radar as changing course.
>> you area ware of course, that electronics exists that can inject blips into RADAR to produce false images.

The WTC collapses.
>> the fact that the "collapse" events for WTC 1,2 & 7 are blamed on FIRE
is an argument for Controlled Demolition & total FRAUD from the mainstream media.

The 3,000 plus people dead.
>> again, stuff that is all too easy to FAKE, the REAL death toll, who knows?

The immense smoke cloud that enveloped New York. Want me to go on?
>> and as for that smoke cloud, how about pyroclastic flow? & evidence pointing to explosives.

REALLY NOW?

How about some HARD evidence like a real accounting for the bits of "FLT77" or "FLT93" ?
How about recovered aircraft bits from ground zero that can be positively ID to be from
either FLT11 or FLT175 ? ... what?

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The photos of them at the airport.
>> seeing a pix of any given individual at an airport is proof of NOTHING.

The flight training they undertook.
>> again, anybody can take flight training and that alone is NOT proof of anything.

The passports and boarding passes.
>> Passports & boarding passes are bits of paper and can so easily be faked.

The fact that three planes were hijacked and seen on radar as changing course.
>> you area ware of course, that electronics exists that can inject blips into RADAR to produce false images.

The WTC collapses.
>> the fact that the "collapse" events for WTC 1,2 & 7 are blamed on FIRE
is an argument for Controlled Demolition & total FRAUD from the mainstream media.

The 3,000 plus people dead.
>> again, stuff that is all too easy to FAKE, the REAL death toll, who knows?

The immense smoke cloud that enveloped New York. Want me to go on?
>> and as for that smoke cloud, how about pyroclastic flow? & evidence pointing to explosives.

REALLY NOW?

How about some HARD evidence like a real accounting for the bits of "FLT77" or "FLT93" ?
How about recovered aircraft bits from ground zero that can be positively ID to be from
either FLT11 or FLT175 ? ... what?

:lamo
Seriously did you even read what you wrote?

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

:lamo
Seriously did you even read what you wrote?

If YOU have somekinda issue with something I wrote, please
by all means express yourself, what specifically do you disagree with?

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

If YOU have somekinda issue with something I wrote, please
by all means express yourself, what specifically do you disagree with?

Every single thing you wrote. You are dismissing stuff or concocting stranger and stranger and more and more complex scenarios to try and dismiss the obvious that it was hijackers on planes the simplest solution.

Please tell me what they were doing at the airport? sightseeing
Why were they taking flying lessons? to become airline pilots but decided to disappear to further the ebil govt.
Why would any sane person not accept the impacts and fires as the cause of the collapses?
Yes all the "dead" people are still alive and them and their families are in on it! /sarcasm
The immense smoke cloud was obviously caused by smoke generators and not the planes/fires/collapses /sarcasm
What is this mythical bit of electronics that changes radar data and why don't terrorists just use that to cause havoc with the airways?
Pieces of the planes were found only CT nutjobs don't accept that

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

"What is this mythical bit of electronics that changes radar data ...."

Just to address this one bit, note that there is a whole branch of technology
that is called electronic countermeasures. Note that I would NOT ever attribute
to some cave dwelling "Al Qeada" crew the ability to build or use this sort of technology,
however the US Military has all sorts of examples of this technology already built & operational.

Note also YOUR dismissal of the Pyroclastic flow by stating "smoke generators"
that I NEVER brought up, my argument on this subject is that the fact there was
these huge clouds caused by the fact that explosives were destroying the buildings.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The fact that three planes were hijacked and seen on radar as changing course.
>> you area ware of course, that electronics exists that can inject blips into RADAR to produce false images.

Actually, what you have described is impossible.

And yes, I know about "RADAR injects" as well, we use them regularly for training. And this capability is only possible on a few systems.

For ATC, this is only capable on training units, which are not connected to live RADAR in any way. These units only receive injects, nothing else. And the Injects themselves are pre-recorded ghosts, which are prepared ahead of time and can't be "adjusted on the fly".

"Live" ATC units do not have the capability to get injects, short of putting them into a diagnostic mode where they are used to test for performance and the capability of getting signals from a source.

Military equipment is somewhat unique, in that it is designed to work with injects as part of the training for those that use them. And it has to be purposefully put into an inject mode, and once this is done the difference is immediate and obvious. Everything from real world vanishes, and the only information is what was pre-programmed before the inject started.

So for an ATC, it would be obvious within minutes that there is an inject, because he would call for an aircraft to make a flight correction. And when the aircraft did not change (or if an aircraft changed course on RADAR and told the ATC he has not changed course), they would immediately be trying to troubleshoot their equipment and RADAR.

I have literally spent hundreds of hours in "inject space", doing attack and intercept drills inside of injects. We have even failed drills because people did not turn on their injects and did not see the simulated missiles. This is because you can't mix the two signals!

While on deployment, I spent the year in the Command Post, and was able during our drills to watch both feeds, both the "real life" feed, and the "inject" feed. And you just could not confuse the two feeds. And it is also impossible to combine the two, so that you get both real time and a fantasy inject.

Now, it is however to do some kinds of injects in real time, just not like the fantasy that you all try to pretend happens. You can inject "ghosts" into a system, but they do not behave like real life objects (these are often what is reported by ATC as UFOs, they are system glitches). You can also spoof the setting in ATC with the BARR (Block Aircraft Registration Request), which hotlinks an aircraft flightplan with the transponder. All this does is prevent an ATC from seeing exactly where the aircraft is going, coming from and it's manifest (normally done for high security individuals like politicians and celebrities). You can also spoof the collision avoidance RADAR of many aircraft, but this simply is a name spoof, like a fake caller ID inject. You spoof your signal so instead of the collision RADAR saying "CESSNA 175 COLLISION RISK 750 METERS" it says "YOUR MAMMA 750 METERS". And it is also possible to play with some of the newer systems because it works not off of RADAR at all, but from the reported GPS positions of aircraft.

But please, do some of your own research and tell me how this was possible, because I frankly do not see how. I even had this conversation a few years ago with the Chief Warrant Officer who is responsible for working on my Battery's RADAR, and he told me it was impossible, the system simply can't handle that kind of data and that is why we have to switch between simulation and real manually (which is also a failsafe - so you do not accidentally fire at a ghost instead of a real target).

So please present your references to indicate this is possible, I am awaiting your reply.

Curious hackers inject ghost airplanes into radar, track celebrities' flights | Computerworld Blogs

Seeking Researchers For 9/11 Radar Study - 9/11 Scholars Forum

Radar "injects", "sims" And "phantoms" - Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum

'Let's Get Rid of This Goddamn Sim': How NORAD Radar Screens Displayed False Tracks All Through the 9/11 Attacks | 911Blogger.com

 

[Oozlefinch]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

:lamo
Seriously did you even read what you wrote?

I am sure he reads it, he just does not understand any of it and rejects anything that he does not agree with.

Look back to my conversation with him about what kind of missiles could have done the damage. I then went through each of the active missiles in our inventory which could possibly have done it, and showed why it was not possible.

And deafening silence from the CT folks. And now I am (once again) dealing with the RADAR Inject theory (which I am sure HD remembers my going through with him in the past), and I expect the exact same rejection and silence.

However, one thing that these people do not understand is that I am not writing these posts for them. I consider most of the to damaged to be salvageable, completely lost in their fantasy world. I write these posts hopefully to prevent others from falling prey to their insanity.

And if anybody notices, I am pretty selective in what I respond to, and how. I do not even try to get into the debates of how fast objects fall, how far away debris is thrown, or the like. I have no knowledge of these subjects, and do not pretend to so simply sit silent. But whenever a topic comes up that I am knowledgeable about (RADAR, missiles, military operations, logic), I do make posts to try and pass out correct information.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

"Actually, what you have described is impossible."

Thank you ever so much for your judgement on this subject,
we shall have to agree to disagree, the info on this subject
has not been published but its REAL, there is no doubt at all,
that the military has the technology to fake radar blips that look
exactly like commercial airliners.

Say "impossible" only for things that would violate the laws of physics.
otherwise .... keep an open mind.

anyhow - what REAL evidence is there that "FLT11", "FLT175", "FLT77" & "FLT93" ever existed at all?

or?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Actually, what you have described is impossible.

And yes, I know about "RADAR injects" as well, we use them regularly for training. And this capability is only possible on a few systems.]

From what I know about EC they can't be used to take an existing flight, make that flight disappear while simultaneously creating a new flight... right? They can create false signals or make existing signals appear and disappear though.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

"Actually, what you have described is impossible."

Thank you ever so much for your judgement on this subject,
we shall have to agree to disagree, the info on this subject
has not been published but its REAL, there is no doubt at all,
that the military has the technology to fake radar blips that look
exactly like commercial airliners.

Say "impossible" only for things that would violate the laws of physics.
otherwise .... keep an open mind.

anyhow - what REAL evidence is there that "FLT11", "FLT175", "FLT77" & "FLT93" ever existed at all?

or?

You have it backwards... prove they didn't exist. We say they did. There are boarding passes, photographs, passengers that died and families that lost these loved ones. You claim it is all false and a lie. Prove it. The burden is on you, not us. You are essentially telling us to prove that the sun exists. It is there. You can feel it. You would counter that the government or aliens could have set up a false heat source. None of us have been in space or to the sun, right? Therefore we can't "prove" the sun exists. Well, it would be upon you to prove that it does not exist. Do your own ****ing homework.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

How about some HARD evidence like a real accounting for the bits of "FLT77" or "FLT93" ?
How about recovered aircraft bits from ground zero that can be positively ID to be from
either FLT11 or FLT175 ? ... what?

You have no concept as to how one runs a case. It is up to the prosecution (you) to prove your case. It is up to you to prove that t he flights did not exist or that there should have been some wreckage to find. You would make a very poor lawyer.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You have it backwards... prove they didn't exist. We say they did. There are boarding passes, photographs, passengers that died and families that lost these loved ones. You claim it is all false and a lie. Prove it. The burden is on you, not us. You are essentially telling us to prove that the sun exists. It is there. You can feel it. You would counter that the government or aliens could have set up a false heat source. None of us have been in space or to the sun, right? Therefore we can't "prove" the sun exists. Well, it would be upon you to prove that it does not exist. Do your own ****ing homework.

The first ones to assert that there were hijacked airliners
was the Mainstream Media and they have NOT been forthcoming with proof of anything.

I'm not going to PROVE that an airliner did not exist, however, when sufficient proof
is lacking from all other sources, don't you wonder what is up with that?

Bottom line here is that the whole "hijacked airliners used as weapons" bit is complete fiction.
and logical tests of the actual odds of completing such a mission, indicate clearly that it
would be the very worst choice for the planners of this attack to have made.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

From what I know about EC they can't be used to take an existing flight, make that flight disappear while simultaneously creating a new flight... right? They can create false signals or make existing signals appear and disappear though.

You can create some parts, but not all. And correct, you can inject but not remove.

The ATC system combines several systems to give a unified picture to the controllers. Part of it is RADAR, and other parts are actually transponder information (radio), yet still others are tracking (computer only, associating information with an assigned object).

So you could theoretically inject a track, but there would no transponder data associated with that because it enters the system a completely different way, through a completely different system. And all of these systems operate independently but cooperatively. So a data signal from Boston is passed off to Hartford, then to New York. But all that is transfered is the raw track data, nothing else. They are still generating their own RADAR pictures.

So an inject simply would not work for another reason, the locations of RADARs. You would literally have to inject a completely different set of data for every RADAR system in existence on the system, or else data that looks right (flying from top to bottom by orientation of their RADAR) would end up being from left to right on the RADAR in say New York which is oriented differently. And what is on the bottom of the screen in Boston is of course at the top of the screen in New York.

When we conducted theatre wide Injects, every system participating in the war game saw the exact same picture. This is because we had to, the network simply could not handle the bandwidth of conducting 15 different injects all at the same time. And all of the other things that appear on RADAR are also ignored, since they did not apply.

Things like boats (yes, we can see boats on our RADAR), and small private craft, and commercial jetliners and the like. We only saw the RED and BLUE teams, nothing else. So when that inject switch is thrown, you can tell right away that it is no longer real life, the systems used even in 2010 could not handle that much data passing through at once.

And our data systems are much more complex in 2010 then they were in 2001.