Is there any way to cure a truther?[W:2707]

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The very highest elevation of the split is the 98th floor. Moving towards south and east, the bifurcation is lower. Even a hinge at 98 presumes the loss of capacity in the core and south face occurs lower. Just sayin'.

It's insane to believe that something sliced through all columns at floor 98 of course unless you place charges there.

The observed movement which appears to be at 98 moving down signals failure BELOW 98. Isn't this self evident? If you had a one story structure and you observed the roof collapsing... isn't it logical to conclude that the columns supporting the roof failed? YES

If it was a three story building with columns of 3 stories in length and the roof collapsed... the columns obviously failed and the failure could have been at any location (ht) of the 3 story columns.

The plane damage was BELOW 98... just below it

DUH

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

LMAO... we can see the national radar records, know the transponders were shut off, how the planes were hijacked, but it's a violation of national security to show video of an actual plane impacting the pentagon...

Those bunnies aren't hollow, you just aren't allowed to see the chocolate!

The video was released long ago, and has even been posted on this site.
MK is the Easter bunny you don't get to decide on the chocolate

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The video was released long ago, and has even been posted on this site.
MK is the Easter bunny you don't get to decide on the chocolate

The alleged Pentagon "FLT77" video, a few frames of very poor quality pictures, and you want to conclude
from that ... a Boeing 757 flew less than 20 ft off the deck at "full throttle" .... what a crock!

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The alleged Pentagon "FLT77" video, a few frames of very poor quality pictures, and you want to conclude
from that ... a Boeing 757 flew less than 20 ft off the deck at "full throttle" .... what a crock!

You think someone flew a missile in 20 feet of the deck, planted evidence, faked the whole flight and passenger list?
What a crock

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Quag, you're not even funny, reading your sad posts.

I guess it goes with the name, eh?

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Quag, you're not even funny, reading your sad posts.

I guess it goes with the name, eh?

I could care less about your opinion on my posts they have as much validity as your opinions on anything to do with 911. They lack any merit and come from someone who has little knowledge about the subject

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You wish...

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You think someone flew a missile in 20 feet of the deck, planted evidence, faked the whole flight and passenger list?
What a crock

I'm sorry .... you are resistant to logic at this point. and you probably believe that I'm resistant to logic
also ..... oh well ..... have a nice day

: )

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I'm sorry .... you are resistant to logic at this point. and you probably believe that I'm resistant to logic
also ..... oh well ..... have a nice day

: )

You have shown a total resistance to logic.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You have shown a total resistance to logic.

Just one question, can you put into words
WHY WTC7 descended at 9.8 m/s^2 for 2.25 sec? Why did it happen just like that?
and the building kept its shape while falling!

izat weird ... or?

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Don't expect straight answers from persons in denial.

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Don't expect straight answers from persons in denial.

Which is why you have never ever given a straight answer on ground effect or anything else for that matter

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Just one question, can you put into words
WHY WTC7 descended at 9.8 m/s^2 for 2.25 sec? Why did it happen just like that?
and the building kept its shape while falling!

izat weird ... or?

So instead of trying to defend the no planes on 911 you have switched to the collapse of the towers. Kat and others have answered all this before ill leave it to them to repeat it if they are so inclined

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

So instead of trying to defend the no planes on 911 you have switched to the collapse of the towers. Kat and others have answered all this before ill leave it to them to repeat it if they are so inclined

as has the evidence for no planes, but you refuse to see logic, Thank U very much......

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

as has the evidence for no planes, but you refuse to see logic, Thank U very much......

You have posted no evidence for no planes.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Don't expect straight answers from persons in denial.

your correct.

What is up for grabs which side of the discussion is denial.

It is interesting you talk a lot about evidence available, yet you rarely link to it.
Why is that. and yes HD, I know you make up your own mind based on evidence. Some just tend to use more proffesional sources than others.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Yes, proffesssionalll propaganda purveyors.

That's alliteration Mike, in case you were ever into english literature and poetry. :lol:

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Yes, proffesssionalll propaganda purveyors.

That's alliteration Mike, in case you were ever into english literature and poetry. :lol:

So you finally confess. :lol:

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

your correct.

What is up for grabs which side of the discussion is denial.

It is interesting you talk a lot about evidence available, yet you rarely link to it.
Why is that. and yes HD, I know you make up your own mind based on evidence. Some just tend to use more proffesional sources than others.

An honest question Mike. I don't link to it for several reasons: 1) I've been studying this matter since about 2004, and while I do keep some notes the old fashioned way with pen and paper, for the most part I understand the big picture, and have for several years. 2) I do not, cannot because I don't really know how to, keep files or links or whatever they are properly called, in the digital format.

I read and study for comprehension, as I was trained since a youngster and before computers. I do comprehend what happened--the events were staged. I do keep notes, and do fairly often provide a link that I have written down. Sadly, most folks will read a link but simply shoot the messenger without discussing the subject matter. As SKitZo said, you are sometimes the pleasant exception to that rule.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

An honest question Mike. I don't link to it for several reasons: 1) I've been studying this matter since about 2004, and while I do keep some notes the old fashioned way with pen and paper, for the most part I understand the big picture, and have for several years. 2) I do not, cannot because I don't really know how to, keep files or links or whatever they are properly called, in the digital format.

I read and study for comprehension, as I was trained since a youngster and before computers. I do comprehend what happened--the events were staged. I do keep notes, and do fairly often provide a link that I have written down. Sadly, most folks will read a link but simply shoot the messenger without discussing the subject matter. As SKitZo said, you are sometimes the pleasant exception to that rule.

I would think we are in the same age group. Remember slide rules, punch cards to run computer programs, etc. One of the reason I ask for links to supporting evidence is so we are looking at the same information, one is able to research and understand the source. There are good 911 researchers and there are some just plain junk posters. It is a shame that those who are doing creditable research have to put up with the off the wall web posters.

Some of the things I look for is the article data mining, using partial quotes, taking data out of context, and leaving out or not addressing data that goes against their believes. I also look to see if the article is playing the "what if" game. Especially when there is no evidence to support going down the "if" trial.

We most likely will not change each others minds on this subject. We most likely disagree on what is a good source of evidence/information. While you have shown to be more skeptical of govt reports than me, I am more skeptical of reports from certain authors and web sites.

In the end, like many events in the past, we will most likely never no for sure or will 100% of the population agree on who,what,where,and why to 9/11. Hopefully, we can agree on is honoring and respecting those who died that day. Rather they were the public, emergency personnel, law enforcement, ect.

I have no desire to cure a truther. Each must decide on what they want to accept about 911. What I try to do is point out that even with the alternative explanations, they are not clear cut and lead to many more unanswered questions.

Have a good one.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Mike

I'm 65 and still have my old high school slide rule.

We've talked about this before. I do my own thinking and reach my own conclusions. For that I rely upon common sense and my life experiences. I know the aviation angles of this story are preposterous, and a couple years of college physics and chemistry and common sense help me to understand the bigger points made by Richard Gage and others.

On the other hand, I've been propagandized by the government during my time in the US Army, 6 years worth. I know how they think and I know how they operate.

The events of 11 September were staged, and numerous goals were achieved.

You have a good day too.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Mike

I'm 65 and still have my old high school slide rule.

We've talked about this before. I do my own thinking and reach my own conclusions. For that I rely upon common sense and my life experiences. I know the aviation angles of this story are preposterous, and a couple years of college physics and chemistry and common sense help me to understand the bigger points made by Richard Gage and others.

On the other hand, I've been propagandized by the government during my time in the US Army, 6 years worth. I know how they think and I know how they operate.

The events of 11 September were staged, and numerous goals were achieved.

You have a good day too.

Mr. David,

I am a wee but older than you... and I was never snowed by this government... ever. I am not a johnny come lately to distrusting those in power to do the right thing. They do what benefits them and their class usually if they can even bother to consider anyone else but themselves.

My thinking is informed by my education... and I don't belong to any groups. Wouldn't think of joining the AIA and have complained to them numerous times. I would never join a yacht club though I've own a boat for 28 yrs.

You've sadly treated this debate as if there are two sides... a duality. This in itself is reductionist thinking. The official story has lots of troubling details and as a whole it can be dismissed. The truth side happens to be even worse. Their science simply cannot stand up. You won't see Gage debate a physicist. He debated a layman Chris Mohr who destroyed him in the debates. You can't make up facts. This is what the truth movement is constantly doing. Speculating and then claiming it was fact. And further when they debunk some aspect of the official account... this becomes the sole basis for the entire OCT being a cover for the inside job.

Learn that both sides are full of errors. While the towers COULD have been taken down with devices... there is no proof they WERE.

I suspect the neocons in the gov were itching for a new paradigm which was US world dominance and they knew they needed a war or two to demonstrate this. No one challenged the US in Iraq or Afghanistan. All they needed was a war. And they made sure an situation would be turned into the excuse to leverage this vision. While the neocons COULD have planned and carried out a false flag to provide the excuse... they knew very well from observing the Israeli Palestinian struggle that it a tit for tat... one does the other does back. All that can happen is escalation once this sort of asymmetrical warfare starts. The US has been a thorn on the side of Arab nations since the fall of Mossedegh in Iran. We prop up the dictators who torture and brutalize them. We supply the weapons to Israel to kill them in wars. People love freedom but the USA does not represent freedom to them...it represents oppression. Terrorism is bred by oppression. US policies were fertilizing the growth of terrorism. AND THEY KNEW IT. And they were waiting for the right sort of terrorist attack to unload all barrels. Wasn't the Cole, wasn't the Embassy in Kenya, wasn't Khobar Towers, nor the marine barracks in Beirut. Or any of the smaller attacks in discos and so forth. But when they hit us on our own soil... as what happened in 1941... it was a foregone conclusion that the people would support was and there would be little to no opposition. Intel knew it was coming. They even gamed a response... They'd have to catch them in the act though... you couldn't start a pre emptive war before 9/11. Now we can. There is a case to be made that some Neocons let 9/11 happen... not they made it happen. It DID NOT MATTER IF THE TOWERS FELL AND 7 HAD NO VALUE TO THE TERRORIST. It's collapse was an unforeseen consequence of poor engineering and the inability to fight the fires on 911 that raged in that tower started by electrical shorts and enabled by diesel fuel in quantities which should not have been there. The towers fell because the fires could not be suppressed and destroyed the strength of the core... the floors collapsed like a house of cards... once started nothing would stop it. Robertson knew this. He designed it. He blamed it all on the fires... and yes they were the proximate cause of the collapse because the plane impacts alone did not destroy the towers... it was the fires that then was the second punch. If you don't get the place cooled down the frame and the connections can't sustain the loads. There were a lot of people who shared the blame for the collapse... and they weren't terrorists... they were the engineers and planners and agencies which created and allowed those designs to be built. Clever designs but with Achilles heels. I think a legal case for wrongful death, criminal negligence, and professional misconduct can be made... because those towers should not have collapsed. And to claim it was CDed is to let off the criminals who designed and planned and approved... and profited from those towers... No war was not the appropriate response to the collapse. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11... and neither did Afghanistan. Those wars cost us trillions I think and where was that money spent? MIC... and a tiny bit for military salaries and benefits. 9/11 was the perfect opportunity to rape the treasury. And they did... many THEYS... the ones you spent 6 years with. I've been protesting the policies of the government since I burned by draft card in 1965... if I recall correctly.

I call it like I see it. And I happened to have worked for the architects of the WTC and my desk was 20 feet from Richard Roth Jrs office.

The agenda of the empire has not changed one iota since JFK was taken out because he wanted to dismantle the CIA and pull out of Vietnam. But you were too naive to understand that then and too preachy to understand history now. Go follow Gage a religious revival Regan Republican who is /was amazing politically naive when I worked closely with him in 2009. He's turned himself into a cult leader and you follow him like a true believer.

You know what? I don't care. We have bigger fish to fry in this struggle.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

It's insane to believe that something sliced through all columns at floor 98 of course unless you place charges there.

The observed movement which appears to be at 98 moving down signals failure BELOW 98. Isn't this self evident? If you had a one story structure and you observed the roof collapsing... isn't it logical to conclude that the columns supporting the roof failed? YES

If it was a three story building with columns of 3 stories in length and the roof collapsed... the columns obviously failed and the failure could have been at any location (ht) of the 3 story columns.

The plane damage was BELOW 98... just below it

DUH

The failure actually occurred at the 98th floor per NIST and it sure looks pretty even on video.

The aircraft damage was largely to the 95th and 96th floors, so it wasn't just below the 98th floor and the impact damage had nothing to do with the horizontal propagation.

In fact, if you watch the video closely you will see that the first floors to fail after the 98th were above it. Isn't that interesting?

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The failure actually occurred at the 98th floor per NIST and it sure looks pretty even on video.

The aircraft damage was largely to the 95th and 96th floors, so it wasn't just below the 98th floor and the impact damage had nothing to do with the horizontal propagation.

In fact, if you watch the video closely you will see that the first floors to fail after the 98th were above it. Isn't that interesting?

Yes it's consistent with failure below 98...

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Sander

Yes, I'm guilty of the duality charge you level.

I have reduced it to a very simple equation--the OCT is either true, or it is false. Remember those old lessons in logic? A statement is either true, or its opposite. You might consider that an oversimplification, but in the end that is the only choice I have in deciding this question.

Is the official story true, or is it false.

The answer is simple, 11 years later.

For you it may be more complex, as you wander through the forest arguing about this tree or that tree. Certainly that is your right and your prerogative, but I've better things to do. Being an aviator, I prefer the view from above, looking at the entire forest.

The official story is false, and you cannot prove that it is true. All your doubts and rationalizations and equivocations are simply processes that you must go through for some personal reason. Despite all your fascination with the individual trees, you cannot prove one single element of the OCT. eace