Is there any way to cure a truther?[W:2707]

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

:lol:

I started a meme.

 

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Well, according to 9/11 Commissioner Senator Bob Kerrey, 9/11 was a 30 year conspiracy.

Oozlefinch - you have quite the penchant for ignoring posts that are directed at you.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Over the decade I listened, evaluated, and have come to believe the truthers are wrong. Far too much evidence they want to or blatantly do ignore proves them wrong. Sadly I have a close family member that is a truther extremist. Is there any way to bring him back to reality. Existing truthers need not apply.

Van Jones is a "Truther".

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Van Jones is a "Truther".

The person who started this thread refused to respond to questions asking them to explain how the symmetric free fall acceleration of WTC 7 for its first eight stories would be possible in a natural collapse, yet he/she had the nerve to castigate others about ignoring contrary evidence.

 

[CalGun]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Yes I do. Mostly because the truther theories simply serve to detract from those who'd like to kill us, and the people that died deserve better.

The person who started this thread refused to respond to questions asking them to explain how the symmetric free fall acceleration of WTC 7 for its first eight stories would be possible in a natural collapse, yet he/she had the nerve to castigate others about ignoring contrary evidence.

 

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Yes I do. Mostly because the truther theories simply serve to detract from those who'd like to kill us, and the people that died deserve better.

:2wave:

You feel like responding to me yet?

Way back from post #9:

Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11? That the story of 9/11, when told, is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts because we have a complete and accurate accounting of 9/11? That there are zero information gaps like what we've seen in other controversies that have happened in our nation's past? That the shroud of secrecy has not contaminated the process of disclosure? That our government has been absolutely transparent in its admissions?

Are these the things you believe in?

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11? That the story of 9/11, when told, is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts because we have a complete and accurate accounting of 9/11? That there are zero information gaps like what we've seen in other controversies that have happened in our nation's past? That the shroud of secrecy has not contaminated the process of disclosure? That our government has been absolutely transparent in its admissions?

Are these the things you believe in?

I will give you my opinion on your questions. I expect you to then answer mine.

Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11?
No. I do believe the underlining premise of hijacks/crashes.

That the story of 9/11, when told, is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts because we have a complete and accurate accounting of 9/11?

This is a baiting question. Much like have you quit beating your wife Yes/No.
One of the issues is no one report or combination of reports written was to cover every aspect of 911. You have to read what each group was commissioned to investigate.

That there are zero information gaps like what we've seen in other controversies that have happened in our nation's past?

- Again, bait question. There are most likely some gaps depending what you are eluding to. For example did the NIST investigate explosives in the wtc. No, they gave reasons why they did not. By not doing so could be considered a gap.

That the shroud of secrecy has not contaminated the process of disclosure?
What secrecy are you asking about?

That our government has been absolutely transparent in its admissions?
IMO, no the govt has not been totally transparent.

Now my turn.
Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11 from conspiracy people?
That the explanation given by CT authors (pick one) is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts?
That CT authors explanations of what happened on 911 (pick an explantion) has zero information gaps and answers all the questions of who,what, where, when and why?

That some CT authors are looking out for the best interest of the American public and are looking only for the truth?

Do you believe the Sandy Hook shooting was carried out by mossad agents?
Do you believe that no children were killed at Sandy Hook?
Do you believe the Boston Bombing was a false flag operation carried out by the govt?
Do you believe the Boston Bombing was staged and there were no injures?

Do you believe that CT authors and their websites are 100% accurrate in what they post?

 

[CalGun]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

thank you.....I personally have grown woefully tired of the truthers. Their tactic is illustrated here well. I demand you watch this 2 hr 47 minute video or you aren't qualified to match what a libertarian anarchist electrical engineer has reported to them about a structure he didn't design or understands. I asked the question, how to cure a truther? I got my answer...you can't fix stupid.

 

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

thank you.....I personally have grown woefully tired of the truthers. Their tactic is illustrated here well. I demand you watch this 2 hr 47 minute video or you aren't qualified to match what a libertarian anarchist electrical engineer has reported to them about a structure he didn't design or understands. I asked the question, how to cure a truther? I got my answer...you can't fix stupid.

:roll:

So again, you refuse to answer questions posed to you; instead, you hurl blanket insults. Nice approach to things.

 

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11 from conspiracy people

No. A lot of stuff has been invented. Example: That there were no planes on 9/11, or, that there were no victims, or, that the government engineered the attack top-to-bottom themselves.

That the explanation given by CT authors (pick one) is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts?

No. I have not purchased a single 9/11 conspiracy book, so my direct knowledge of them isn't probably as good as others. The 9/11 books I have are authored by Noam Chomsky, LIFE and the 9/11 Commission.

That CT authors explanations of what happened on 911 (pick an explantion) has zero information gaps and answers all the questions of who,what, where, when and why?

No. Example: President Bush is both incredibly calculating, yet, disturbingly dumb.

That some CT authors are looking out for the best interest of the American public and are looking only for the truth?

Eh, I would wager money that men like Alex Jones and David Icke don't have our best interest in mind, since they bandwagon jump on anything that comes down the pike and spin it to make the American government look bad (while ironically forgetting that there are regimes around the globe that make our corruption look tame), but I cannot speak of the others, like Griffin and Jones, since I have not read much of their material.

Do you believe the Sandy Hook shooting was carried out by mossad agents?

Really? No, of course not. The Israelis and Mossad do a lot things, but school shootings in America is not among them.

Do you believe that no children were killed at Sandy Hook?

:doh Disgraceful question. Innocent school children were slaughtered by a POS that I would crush with my bare hands if given a chance.

Do you believe the Boston Bombing was a false flag operation carried out by the govt?

No, it was a terrorist attack carried out by the two Tsarnaev brothers (who are likely a part of something bigger, IMO).

Do you believe the Boston Bombing was staged and there were no injures?

No, that is ****ing ridiculous.

Do you believe that CT authors and their websites are 100% accurrate in what they post?

No, of course not. They are overwhelmingly wrong the majority of time. Like Infowars for example. About the only time they get something correct is when they link to a credible source (recall what I said about credible sources, if you would), but they can barely manage that because 1) they often false advertise sources and 2) they add their own spin. If you're wondering why I even frequent Infowars, it is not for their content, it is for the links to credible sources that my Google News feed, Drudge Report, or Custom News Clusters (or even here) miss. I prefer being informed, and they happen to stay on top of newsworthy information (sometimes).

 

[Jango]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Do you believe we have a complete and accurate accounting on all things regarding 9/11?
No. I do believe the underlining premise of hijacks/crashes.

I think a lot of politically expedient things were removed from the report. Things that would have ended our relationship with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan for starters, among other things. And I've already said it, I believe, and support the hijacker/plane scenario.

That the story of 9/11, when told, is 100% truthful and full of indisputable facts because we have a complete and accurate accounting of 9/11?

This is a baiting question. Much like have you quit beating your wife Yes/No.
One of the issues is no one report or combination of reports written was to cover every aspect of 911. You have to read what each group was commissioned to investigate.

The 9/11 Commission Report has been dubbed as the official report of the events leading up to 9/11. There are, however, in my opinion of course, large gaps that were left unaddressed.

That there are zero information gaps like what we've seen in other controversies that have happened in our nation's past?

- Again, bait question. There are most likely some gaps depending what you are eluding to. For example did the NIST investigate explosives in the wtc. No, they gave reasons why they did not. By not doing so could be considered a gap.

Though I am aware of NIST not investigating for explosives, that was not what I was eluding to. See below.

That the shroud of secrecy has not contaminated the process of disclosure?
What secrecy are you asking about?

Well, supposedly only two members of the Commission (Zelikow being one of them), which were not the chairs, were allowed to view the most sensitive documents, like the President's Daily Brief. Now mind you, al-Qaeda had been a topic of discussion some forty times in the PDB. There is no telling if protectionism was installed with certain documents, as in, say, on 09/08/01 the PDB said there was going to be a major attack in the next few days. We just don't know, you know? We have to trust that the two people viewing the most safely guarded documents did their jobs or protected the administration.

That our government has been absolutely transparent in its admissions?
IMO, no the govt has not been totally transparent.

Right. One would think though, that given the circumstances, that transparency would not be an issue after such an event. But it was, and it remains so. We still do not possess the full report, or have access to all of the documentation that the Commission had.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I think a lot of politically expedient things were removed from the report. Things that would have ended our relationship with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan for starters, among other things. And I've already said it, I believe, and support the hijacker/plane scenario.



The 9/11 Commission Report has been dubbed as the official report of the events leading up to 9/11. There are, however, in my opinion of course, large gaps that were left unaddressed.



Though I am aware of NIST not investigating for explosives, that was not what I was eluding to. See below.



Well, supposedly only two members of the Commission (Zelikow being one of them), which were not the chairs, were allowed to view the most sensitive documents, like the President's Daily Brief. Now mind you, al-Qaeda had been a topic of discussion some forty times in the PDB. There is no telling if protectionism was installed with certain documents, as in, say, on 09/08/01 the PDB said there was going to be a major attack in the next few days. We just don't know, you know? We have to trust that the two people viewing the most safely guarded documents did their jobs or protected the administration.



Right. One would think though, that given the circumstances, that transparency would not be an issue after such an event. But it was, and it remains so. We still do not possess the full report, or have access to all of the documentation that the Commission had.

The three collapsed buildings in NYC clearly did not come down by accident and the late Mark Haines said it perfectly in this short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTppoBZKC4s

Given the above, the largest gaps in the investigation is that there has never been an interrogation of those who were known to have access to the interiors of the buildings and not testing the steel for evidence of demolition devices. However, later findings by independent technical people have shown scientific proof of demolition and the political response to requests/demands for re-opening the investigation for this reason has been no.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The three collapsed buildings in NYC clearly did not come down by accident and the late Mark Haines said it perfectly in this short video MARK HAINES ON 9/11 TOWERS' COLLAPSE - CNBC - SQUAWK BOX - YouTube

Given the above, the largest gaps in the investigation is that there has never been an interrogation of those who were known to have access to the interiors of the buildings and not testing the steel for evidence of demolition devices. However, later findings by independent technical people have shown scientific proof of demolition and the political response to requests/demands for re-opening the investigation for this reason has been no.

Then why no national or world wide media coverage. Why no presentatiions at major conferences.

The conflict remains that some papers say X and others say Y.

If true then the only thing to solve is who did it. So no technical investigation is needed.

I guess you will say it is another CT that the word cannot get out.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Then why no national or world wide media coverage. Why no presentatiions at major conferences.

The conflict remains that some papers say X and others say Y.

If true then the only thing to solve is who did it. So no technical investigation is needed.

I guess you will say it is another CT that the word cannot get out.

The media is simply going along with the government pronouncement of damage and fire being the causes, even though it has been proven that damage and fire could not have been the cause. If the government doesn't change their position then there will be no major media coverage.

A number of media outlets have played the AE911Truth documentary 911 Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out. For evidence of that see this link http://www.smh.com.au/tv/Documentary/911-Explosive-Evidence-4313104.html by a major news organization in Australia. You should also note that it is not available for viewing in the United States.

Your point that some papers say X and others Y is a copout on your part. It is very possible to distinguish which of the two is correct and it isn't the ones that support damage and fire as being the cause.

If you think there are no pressures on the media to conform in situations like these you are naïve. Just look at the Kennedy assassination for evidence of that. There is no chance that Lee Harvey Oswald could have fired the head shot that actually killed JFK and threw his head back and to the left, but the media still goes along with the Warren Report. We live in Orwellian times where outright BS is purported to be reality and accepted uncritically by many.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

The media is simply going along with the government pronouncement of damage and fire being the causes, even though it has been proven that damage and fire could not have been the cause. If the government doesn't change their position then there will be no major media coverage.

A number of media outlets have played the AE911Truth documentary 911 Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out. For evidence of that see this link Watch 9/11 Explosive Evidence Online | smh.tv by a major news organization in Australia. You should also note that it is not available for viewing in the United States.

Your point that some papers say X and others Y is a copout on your part. It is very possible to distinguish which of the two is correct and it isn't the ones that support damage and fire as being the cause.

If you think there are no pressures on the media to conform in situations like these you are naïve. Just look at the Kennedy assassination for evidence of that. There is no chance that Lee Harvey Oswald could have fired the head shot that actually killed JFK and threw his head back and to the left, but the media still goes along with the Warren Report. We live in Orwellian times where outright BS is purported to be reality and accepted uncritically by many.

this is going nowhere. Your response is of a typical CT.
What hurts your side Tony, is the amount of garbage that is posted that is just not true. As far as your coverage response.
Didn't work for watergate now did it? To state that the media would ignore such news, is being dishonest.

I will change my opinion on what happened when the evidence is presented and verified. That has not happened. Maybe for you, but not for me. Till then, as the old show said, "lucy, you have a lot of explaining to do."

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You are the one with a boner for the OCT not me I am merely pointing out all your BS on the aviation stuff is just that BS. I pay particular attention to you because you make the false claim of some expertise in aviation then show how false it is by not understanding basics such as loss of latitude in steep turns or ground effect etc etc.. We could rehash all of it again if you want but you are 100% full of it. I love aviation and to hear a complete fraud like you lie your ass off pisses me off I admit. I have therefore decided to call you out on your BS every time you decide to post it.

I fully understand that the last thing you are interested in is the truth in any given controversy.

I started riding in airplanes with friends in high school, about 1965. Had my Private Pilot license in August 1967, and I'll bet my last dollar you were not yet born in 1967.

By 1969 I had my commercial license and Flight Instructor, and went on active duty in the US Army, where I learned to fly helicopters.

After the Army, a friend and I started a fixed-wing crop dusting business, and did that for 10 years. In all probability I had spent more time in ground effect by 1975 than you have in your entire life. But your juvenile remarks and childish mentality have you convinced otherwise.

I should read your posts, why?

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Oozlefinch - you have quite the penchant for ignoring posts that are directed at you.

That is the typical modus operandi when one has chosen to (foolishly) defend an indefensible proposition.

Yes, you started one of the best memes ever! :lol:

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

thank you.....I personally have grown woefully tired of the truthers. Their tactic is illustrated here well. I demand you watch this 2 hr 47 minute video or you aren't qualified to match what a libertarian anarchist electrical engineer has reported to them about a structure he didn't design or understands. I asked the question, how to cure a truther? I got my answer...you can't fix stupid.

It's true--one cannot fix stupid. Nor can one fix cognitive dissonance. People pay good money to counselors, but most humans in denial will remain there.

Your refusal to engage in substantive discussion, and to answer fairly simple questions, suggest that you know full well the story you have chosen to defend CANNOT be defended in honest dialogue. Hence, dodge the questions, deny the facts and ridicule "truthers".

eace

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

this is going nowhere. Your response is of a typical CT.
What hurts your side Tony, is the amount of garbage that is posted that is just not true. As far as your coverage response.
Didn't work for watergate now did it? To state that the media would ignore such news, is being dishonest.

I will change my opinion on what happened when the evidence is presented and verified. That has not happened. Maybe for you, but not for me. Till then, as the old show said, "lucy, you have a lot of explaining to do."

It is obvious you aren't serious if you compare the Kennedy assassination and 911 with Watergate. In fact, we can't even be sure what Watergate was all about. A lot of people think it was a setup to remove Richard Nixon. Can you prove otherwise?

The fact that you seem to want to include the "garbage" thrown out there by a few shows either silliness on your part or actual disingenuousness. Can't you walk and chew gum and realize that there is a very strong possibility that the actual criminals will put out nonsense like space beams, mini-nukes, etc. to make anyone questioning the present explanations for what occurred to those buildings look bad by association? I rejected these things very quickly for good reasons such as no radiation above background and that a space beam would have had a hard time starting the collapse where it did along with requiring tremendous power which was not feasible. These things being put out there did not deter me from finding what actually occurred.

Some of us don't fall back on the kinds of things you are and look for a realistic solution to the problem and controlled demolition is the only realistic solution to what occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001 and it needs to be investigated.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

It is obvious you aren't serious if you compare the Kennedy assassination and 911 with Watergate. In fact, we can't even be sure what Watergate was all about. A lot of people think it was a setup to remove Richard Nixon. Can you prove otherwise?

The fact that you seem to want to include the "garbage" thrown out there by a few shows either silliness on your part or actual disingenuousness. Can't you walk and chew gum and realize that there is a very strong possibility that the actual criminals will put out nonsense like space beams, mini-nukes, etc. to make anyone questioning the present explanations for what occurred to those buildings look bad by association? I rejected these things very quickly for good reasons such as no radiation above background and that a space beam would have had a hard time starting the collapse where it did along with requiring tremendous power which was not feasible. These things being put out there did not deter me from finding what actually occurred.

Some of us don't fall back on the kinds of things you are and look for a realistic solution to the problem and controlled demolition is the only realistic solution to what occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001 and it needs to be investigated.

You presented no proof that US news is refusing to cover your statement.

Maybe the CD explantion has gotten no press because there is enough people who have written papers that counters the explantion. That it not some govt. conspiracy holding your explantion from being accepted.

This once again is going no where.

and Tony, yes I can look through the bs explantions.

 

[CalGun]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

No I am doing exactly what truthers do to those who accept the truth. I am refusing to answer, I am refusing to look, and I am refusing to be manipulated by thugs who want to be smarter than everyone else but aren't. You show this with every post ("you refuse") is a key word for you - guess what I'm putting it back on you. Think about the truthers "approach" to things and you can see the cyberbully effect routinely. Screw that - I refuse.

:roll:

So again, you refuse to answer questions posed to you; instead, you hurl blanket insults. Nice approach to things.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

No I am doing exactly what truthers do to those who accept the truth. I am refusing to answer, I am refusing to look, and I am refusing to be manipulated by thugs who want to be smarter than everyone else but aren't. You show this with every post ("you refuse") is a key word for you - guess what I'm putting it back on you. Think about the truthers "approach" to things and you can see the cyberbully effect routinely. Screw that - I refuse.

Oh, please spare us the BS that you are refusing to discuss the issues because you don't want to acknowledge those who don't accept "the truth" that you have. Your alleged "truth" has so many holes in it that use of the word truth in relation to it is a mockery and you cannot defend it.

You are clearly someone who just doesn't want to be bothered and are willing to accept nonsensical explanations so they don't have to do a little work. Shame on you for that and for being willing to denigrate those who are willing to do the work to expose wrongdoing, so you can feel a little better about what you want to believe, in spite of contradictory evidence.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I want to mention that before I looked into this mess, concerning what occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001, I thought the 911 victims families were continuing to be unsatisfied due to indulgence. However, I did not state this publicly as I couldn't be sure. Well, after looking into it I found out that there was a lot for them to be continually upset about.

It is one thing to not want to believe uncomfortable things that come up and point to things being other than what we are told, and quite another to disparage those who bring them up without having looked into the matter and being able to defend what you believe.

 

[CalGun]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You have a blinder on. I can't help that. You have fallen for the conclusions of those who can prove nothing. I will spare you nothing for you deserve nothing. The truthers have been dispelled. Their arguments rebutted. They can't handle it. It doesn't work for them; they live in a state of denial. I would not post "any way to cure a truther" unless I had bothtered to look into it. The fact is I could have been a truther if they had relevance but they don't. They use things like you do - personal attacks - so I will too. I figure the only way to get thru to a truther is to play their game. They won't look at data that does not support their conclusions. Look at the "pilot" here who is called out by another aviator but "I've been flying since 65" so what. You want to believe in something that isn't real that's fine - I want to help those who want the truth not those who are dellusional.

Oh, please spare us the BS that you are refusing to discuss the issues because you don't want to acknowledge those who don't accept "the truth" that you have. Your alleged "truth" has so many holes in it that use of the word truth in relation to it is a mockery and you cannot defend it.

You are clearly someone who just doesn't want to be bothered and are willing to accept nonsensical explanations so they don't have to do a little work. Shame on you for that and for being willing to denigrate those who are willing to do the work to expose wrongdoing, so you can feel a little better about what you want to believe, in spite of contradictory evidence.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

You have a blinder on. I can't help that. You have fallen for the conclusions of those who can prove nothing. I will spare you nothing for you deserve nothing. The truthers have been dispelled. Their arguments rebutted. They can't handle it. It doesn't work for them; they live in a state of denial. I would not post "any way to cure a truther" unless I had bothtered to look into it. The fact is I could have been a truther if they had relevance but they don't. They use things like you do - personal attacks - so I will too. I figure the only way to get thru to a truther is to play their game. They won't look at data that does not support their conclusions. Look at the "pilot" here who is called out by another aviator but "I've been flying since 65" so what. You want to believe in something that isn't real that's fine - I want to help those who want the truth not those who are dellusional.

Okay CalGun, you say the arguments which are skeptical of the explanations we have been given for what occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001 have been dispelled and rebutted.

Watch this 15 minute video called Solving the Mystery of WTC 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw

and then show me where anyone has dispelled and rebutted the argument that symmetric free fall acceleration of the upper 30 or so stories of WTC 7 through the first eight stories of their fall proves demolition.

I am sure you won't be able to answer. The thing is that it is understandable to not want to believe anything untoward went on, but once you are shown this you should not be denigrating those who are questioning what went on and don't accept the present "fire did it" theory. There is a real crime here and a real problem with the present explanation. This isn't the Loch Ness monster or Sasquatch theories, which most of us know are silly and don't believe for good reason.