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Is the "war on poverty" a matter of money?

Still, anecdotal evidence will only ever be just that.

As to effort, many people work hard their entire working lives, with little to nothing to show for it. To suggest that theoretical possibility equates with a plethora of opportunities, it to maybe stretch the bounds of credibility, somewhat. There is bias and favouritism, for one thing. Entranched elitism and corporate self-interest for another. Patterns of inequality don't begin and end with attitude, on the part of the poverty stricken. I don't imagine that, faced with myriad opportunities for advancement, the average poor person would wave them away so casually, do you?

Actually, yes, I do. Before anyone can recognize those myriad opportunities and reach out and take one, he has to believe in his own ability achieve.

I'm not saying so much that people who stay in poverty are lazy or don't want to work. It's more that they have to believe in themselves and get away from the victim mentality, or the entitlement mentality.
 
Bottom line is, if you accept where you are in life and blame others for your misfortunes and never try to get past them, you won't.

Can't never can and won't never will.
 
Hey look! Dr. Cornell West! Professor Emeritus of Harvard and Princeton who was paid over $300,000 a year to ponder, write about and lecture about social welfare!

And look! He's doing his part and being an activist who complains about MONEY NOT GOING TOWARD SOCIAL WELFARE!

With a cardboard sign to boot. That's a nice touch.

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Irony. :roll:

Is there anything more despicable than deriving power from convincing people they are victims of power? As a prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America, I have to say it fits perfectly. So maybe irony is the wrong word.

Nice. :lol:
 
Actually, yes, I do. Before anyone can recognize those myriad opportunities and reach out and take one, he has to believe in his own ability achieve.

I'm not saying so much that people who stay in poverty are lazy or don't want to work. It's more that they have to believe in themselves and get away from the victim mentality, or the entitlement mentality.
But it's not a mentality. I see these terms bandied around, and I don't accept them. Millions of people are content to languish in poverty, rather than to create real wealth for themselves, where these supposed opportunities arise? That's nonsensical. This mythical ideal that one's potential for advancement is defined solely by one's attitude, flies in the face of both common sense and stark reality.

So some highly motivated poor individual decides s/he wants to become a Fortune 500 CEO. What are the odds?
 
Bottom line is, if you accept where you are in life and blame others for your misfortunes and never try to get past them, you won't.

Can't never can and won't never will.
Were that the case, there shouldn't be 30 million people, starving in the Third World.

I imagine starvation would beget some serious motivation to eat.
 
But it's not a mentality. I see these terms bandied around, and I don't accept them. Millions of people are content to languish in poverty, rather than to create real wealth for themselves, where these supposed opportunities arise? That's nonsensical. This mythical ideal that one's potential for advancement is defined solely by one's attitude, flies in the face of both common sense and stark reality.

So some highly motivated poor individual decides s/he wants to become a Fortune 500 CEO. What are the odds?

Not very good. Some highly motivated middle class individual has not much more chance of that. The odds of having a comfortable middle class lifestyle are much higher, however.
 
Not very good. Some highly motivated middle class individual has not much more chance of that. The odds of having a comfortable middle class lifestyle are much higher, however.
In itself an opportunity. Which in turn would furnish an individual from such a background with certain opportunites, denied the average working class individual. Such as financial assistance during college, would be another opportunity not so readily available to the guy from the ghetto.

Since we're discussing attitude, it's a fair bet that the kid whose father worked in a warehouse all his life, would be less likely than a middle-class kid (whose father is a doctor), to entertain the notion of achieving higher status. That form of generational transmission carries with it it's own indoctrination. Their expectations of life are surely very different.
 
In itself an opportunity. Which in turn would furnish an individual from such a background with certain opportunites, denied the average working class individual. Such as financial assistance during college, would be another opportunity not so readily available to the guy from the ghetto.

Since we're discussing attitude, it's a fair bet that the kid whose father worked in a warehouse all his life, would be less likely than a middle-class kid (whose father is a doctor), to entertain the notion of achieving higher status. That form of generational transmission carries with it it's own indoctrination. Their expectations of life are surely very different.
Yes, in general parents who took opportunities are more likely to have children who do the same. It's a matter of example, after all.

and sure, middle and upper class people have more opportunities, find it easier to keep living a middle/upper class lifestyle.

but, the opportunities are there for children of poverty, too.
 
Yes, in general parents who took opportunities are more likely to have children who do the same. It's a matter of example, after all.

and sure, middle and upper class people have more opportunities, find it easier to keep living a middle/upper class lifestyle.

but, the opportunities are there for children of poverty, too.
Well, I'm not gonna say there's any clear cut line of demarcation, of course. But the stats likely attest to a certain pattern. In that light, we could draw any number of inferences, to the effect that atttiude is at least secondary to considerations of finance and prevailing ideology.

Given this, theoretical possibility pales beside the cumulative effects of these other factors. If not, then we'd expect to see a higher proportion of such as working class graduates, in relation to their middle and upper class counterparts. Further, their representation by percentage, in professional vocations.
 
Well, I'm not gonna say there's any clear cut line of demarcation, of course. But the stats likely attest to a certain pattern. In that light, we could draw any number of inferences, to the effect that atttiude is at least secondary to considerations of finance and prevailing ideology.

Given this, theoretical possibility pales beside the cumulative effects of these other factors. If not, then we'd expect to see a higher proportion of such as working class graduates, in relation to their middle and upper class counterparts. Further, their representation by percentage, in professional vocations.

The stats do show a pattern, no question. Still, human beings are individuals. We don't have to let statistics determine how we'll live our lives.

The fact is, every human being is capable of far more than we realize. It's a matter of realizing our individual capabilities. But, sure, it's much more likely that success will come from parents who succeed, rather than from those who fail.
 
I keep seeing this and similar pics posted online. Makes me wonder... Is the "war on poverty" a matter of money?

I do not mean for the individual, but rather as a governmental/societal policy matter.

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No, it's not about money. It's about this country providing enough avenues for people to work out of poverty and stay there.
 
The stats do show a pattern, no question. Still, human beings are individuals. We don't have to let statistics determine how we'll live our lives.

The fact is, every human being is capable of far more than we realize. It's a matter of realizing our individual capabilities. But, sure, it's much more likely that success will come from parents who succeed, rather than from those who fail.
Of course. I'll never deny individual human potential. But where circumstances permit.

It's not that people are limited by statistical representation. Only that they reflect probability.
 
Of course. I'll never deny individual human potential. But where circumstances permit.

It's not that people are limited by statistical representation. Only that they reflect probability.

That they do.

It is probable that someone born into poverty will remain in poverty.

But, they don't have to . There are opportunities.

Now, if we're going to wage a war on poverty, which we've been doing for going on fifty years now with little success, is it enough to provide a safety net to people in poverty? Would it be enough to provide money to lift people out of poverty? Is there something else that needs to be addressed? Is a safety net sometimes counterproductive?
 
It's a good point. But in that instance, I'd argue that, denied a level playing field, neither wing could afford to revert to type. My own definition of course, includes the opportunity to act in character.

I don't claim the Democrats are near perfect and if one of them screws up, I say hang them by their balls and give a female Democrat a sex change to make that possible.

I have views that are considered right-wing, but they are honest views and the right-wing are dishonest politicians, in general. I believe there are honest conservatives, but I don't see a tendency for them to correct their own kind and keep them in check. They believe what they believe and don't have the power in the conservative movement.
 
That they do.

It is probable that someone born into poverty will remain in poverty.

But, they don't have to . There are opportunities.

Now, if we're going to wage a war on poverty, which we've been doing for going on fifty years now with little success, is it enough to provide a safety net to people in poverty? Would it be enough to provide money to lift people out of poverty? Is there something else that needs to be addressed? Is a safety net sometimes counterproductive?
Theoretical opportunities, to be precise.

I can read between the lines, dude. You're talking about scrapping the welfare system, right? :lol:
 
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I don't claim the Democrats are near perfect and if one of them screws up, I say hang them by their balls and give a female Democrat a sex change to make that possible.

I have views that are considered right-wing, but they are honest views and the right-wing are dishonest politicians, in general. I believe there are honest conservatives, but I don't see a tendency for them to correct their own kind and keep them in check. They believe what they believe and don't have the power in the conservative movement.
In the Conservative movement, such checks and balances are not so pressing as with Liberals, who operate within the realm of unchecked expansion, as a matter of course. With Cons, it might be overkill, since they represent restriction to begin with, and could stand to be more flexible. A more fitting objective would be oversight, and in general, for either movement. It's a subtle difference, but a relevant one.
 
Theoretical opportunities, to be precise.

I can read between the lines, dude. You're talking about scrapping the welfare system, right? :lol:

Scrapping the welfare system is not a good idea, but it has to be reformed. The welfare state isn't doing us any more good than it did the Romans. We have the address the core causes of poverty before we can actually help anyone.
 
In the Conservative movement, such checks and balances are not so pressing as with Liberals, who operate within the realm of unchecked expansion, as a matter of course. With Cons, it might be overkill, since they represent restriction to begin with, and could stand to be more flexible. A more fitting objective would be oversight, and in general, for either movement. It's a subtle difference, but a relevant one.

So, who are these "cons" who represent restriction? Does that mean "conservatives" and restriction of government?

If so, then conservatives have been extinct in Washington for quite some time now.
 
Scrapping the welfare system is not a good idea, but it has to be reformed. The welfare state isn't doing us any more good than it did the Romans. We have the address the core causes of poverty before we can actually help anyone.
Absolutely. But in the meantime, there are those for whom pecuniary reward may be relatively difficult to come by. There are also those incapable of employment. I won't argue this overly much, since I agree that many are simply unwilling. There's this recession to factor in. Job creation falls short of eligibility.
 
So, who are these "cons" who represent restriction? Does that mean "conservatives" and restriction of government?

If so, then conservatives have been extinct in Washington for quite some time now.
It's more an assessment of Conservatives and Liberals, as ideology applies broadly.

The one for restriction. The other for expansion.

It's not a rigid template, by any means. Rather, an overview.
 
Absolutely. But in the meantime, there are those for whom pecuniary reward may be relatively difficult to come by. There are also those incapable of employment. I won't argue this overly much, since I agree that many are simply unwilling. There's this recession to factor in. Job creation falls short of eligibility.

which is what welfare should address: temporary assistance to people who are temporarily experiencing difficult times, and people who are unemployable due to disability.

Welfare should not be an easier way to make a living than doing the jobs that "Americans won't do", like harvesting crops. We should not have to import illegal aliens to do this important work, not when American citizens are out of work and collecting a dole.

Now, we need to address the other problem, which is a lack of willingness to reach out and grab opportunity when it comes knocking.
 
Life isn't black and white, but black and white is how the right-wing sees it.
This is true. Poverty has multiple facets. It comes from within for some, and for others it's a learned behavior, which ultimately turns into a legacy. In the end, the Democrats will always have their finger on the pulse of the poverty mindset.
 
Absolutely. But in the meantime, there are those for whom pecuniary reward may be relatively difficult to come by. There are also those incapable of employment. I won't argue this overly much, since I agree that many are simply unwilling. There's this recession to factor in. Job creation falls short of eligibility.

More like a fantasy.

I used to view the Republicans as the party of borrow and spend, as opposed to the Democrats' tax and spend. It took the Obama administration to blow that one out of the water by taking borrow and spend to a whole new level.

Which party has actually decreased the size, cost, or invasiveness of the federal government ever?
 
More like a fantasy.

I used to view the Republicans as the party of borrow and spend, as opposed to the Democrats' tax and spend. It took the Obama administration to blow that one out of the water by taking borrow and spend to a whole new level.

Which party has actually decreased the size, cost, or invasiveness of the federal government ever?

I'll take " Neither the Democratic party nor the Republican party " for $1000 , Alex.
 
on topic, I think money is only a partial element to poverty.

I think , primarily, it's a mindset.

I remembering hearing a lil quip once... something like " give all the money in the nation to the poor, and in a short time period, all that money will find it's way into the hands of the rich and the poor will be poor again"
..and I found that to be a testament to the different mindsets concerning money...
 
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