Is the US minimum wage HISTORICALLY too low?

[madman]

No, just about everyone works at the minimum wage, when they start working.
For most that is when that are, well pimple faced kids.
Anyone with a normal IQ and a work ethic, quickly demonstrate more value, and are usually rewarded,
or leave to go somewhere else that values their experience.

< like i said, that is in your conservative utopia. That is not reality. Not everyone can be a lawyer, plumber, technician, etc.

 

[Deuce]

Minimum wage laws don't just affect workers who make minimum wage.

Lest say a company pays some workers a min. wage- 8.38. they pay some some a dollar above and some 2 dollars above. They pay those workers a little extra for a reason.

What happens if the Govt mandates a minimum wage of 11 dollars an hour?

I know in the fantatsy world of liberals companies should just pay workers more money for no reason, but struggling companies don't have the luxury of operating in a fanatsy world.

If somebody works 60 hours a week for you, but your business still can't afford to even put a roof over their head, your business sucks and doesn't need to exist anymore.

If the government mandates $11/hour, those employees earning more for a reason will still earn more for a reason.

 

[longview]

< like i said, that is in your conservative utopia. That is not reality. Not everyone can be a lawyer, plumber, technician, etc.

Like I said, anyone of normal intelligence, and with a work ethic, can validate that they are worth more than minimum wage.
No special skills needed, just show up to work on time, learn the tasks assigned, and do them efficiently.
Learn new skills as required. The bottom line is to make yourself a resource and not a commodity.
Businesses of all types have problems, being the person known to be willing to take on a challenge and solve problems,
goes a long way.
I am not talking hypothetical ideas, I have lived this, and worked at almost every level.

 

[longview]

If somebody works 60 hours a week for you, but your business still can't afford to even put a roof over their head, your business sucks and doesn't need to exist anymore.

If the government mandates $11/hour, those employees earning more for a reason will still earn more for a reason.

As the increase in Seattle has demonstrated, raising the minimum wage also increases the cost of that roof over their head.

 

[SDET]

Minimum wage laws don't just affect workers who make minimum wage.

Lest say a company pays some workers a min. wage- 8.38. they pay some some a dollar above and some 2 dollars above. They pay those workers a little extra for a reason.

What happens if the Govt mandates a minimum wage of 11 dollars an hour?

I know in the fantatsy world of liberals companies should just pay workers more money for no reason, but struggling companies don't have the luxury of operating in a fanatsy world.

Move the decimal point, then ask yourself: If they could do that in 1960, why not now? I'm not strongly advocating a minimum wage increase, just taking a historical look at it. From 1955 to 1963, the minimum wage went from 75 cents to $1.25 .

 

[Deuce]

As the increase in Seattle has demonstrated, raising the minimum wage also increases the cost of that roof over their head.

Has it?

 

[madman]

Like I said, anyone of normal intelligence, and with a work ethic, can validate that they are worth more than minimum wage.
No special skills needed, just show up to work on time, learn the tasks assigned, and do them efficiently.
Learn new skills as required. The bottom line is to make yourself a resource and not a commodity.
Businesses of all types have problems, being the person known to be willing to take on a challenge and solve problems,
goes a long way.
I am not talking hypothetical ideas, I have lived this, and worked at almost every level.

Im not denying the fact that no special skills are really needed for entry level jobs, and Im not rejecting your notion that if you want to move up the ladder, you need to educate yourself either through schooling or some other way. What I am saying is that employers of entry level/min wage jobs do not target just teens. These jobs are NOT JUST FOR teens. Those of you on the right keep bringing this up and it's distorted view of reality. Many different demographics and backgrounds work in industries that offer min. wage, and gasp!!! even those that are trying to raise a family.

 

[gdgyva]

Fifty years ago, people got things like pensions for working blue collar jobs. Fast food wasn't the industry it was today, etc.

As times have changed, wages haven't kept up. But the question is whether that's possible (for wages to keep up). And if it isn't possible, then what do we tell ourselves, that we just need to live with less? I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing; we all own lots of crap we don't need. But if we do that, our consumer-based economy crumbles.

There's also the matter of education. It used to be that a bachelor's degree got you a good, secure job. Now a bachelor's is the new high school diploma and advanced degrees, while offering more opportunities post-graduation, still don't guarantee what a bachelor's used to. And as more people get advanced degrees, the less valuable they become. So within the next couple of decades, education isn't going to be the key to securing a better future.

Hell, I don't know what the answer is.

bull****

a degree in a good field like accounting, or engineering is still a great way to start a career

now if you got a degree in some history or social type courses....bad choice (unless you want to teach)

accounting grads with decent grades are starting at 40k annually around here....and that jumps to 55-60k if they have their cpa with it

and mba's are at 55-70k, and at 80k+ with their cpa's

so it really depends on what your major was....and did you study or party?

 

[longview]

Has it?

Yes!
On April 1, 2015, Seattle increased the minimum wage from $9.75 to $11.00 per hour.
For a full time employee, this would be a monthly increase of $216.25.
From Feb 2015 to Dec 2015 rent on a 1 bedroom increased by $213 per month.
https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-seattle-rent-trends/
This means the first step towards $15 /hour yielded the minimum wage employees
a whopping $3.25 a month.


As a followup, since Dec 2015, Rent on a Seattle one bedroom has increased
by $177 a month, for those schedule A people who saw the Jan 1 increase to $13 an hour, from $11.
$2 per hour times 160 hours a month = $320, about $250 per month after taxes.
So those lucky enough to see the increase, actually realized a monthly net gain
of ..... $73 dollars a month, maybe dinner and a movie.

 

[longview]

Im not denying the fact that no special skills are really needed for entry level jobs, and Im not rejecting your notion that if you want to move up the ladder, you need to educate yourself either through schooling or some other way. What I am saying is that employers of entry level/min wage jobs do not target just teens. These jobs are NOT JUST FOR teens. Those of you on the right keep bringing this up and it's distorted view of reality. Many different demographics and backgrounds work in industries that offer min. wage, and gasp!!! even those that are trying to raise a family.

And I am not saying only teens work for minimum wage. Some people do not work as teens and must start at the bottom also.
The difference is that a 23 year old, likely has some experience, or life skills that will set them about their teen competitors.
The only way to improve your position is to improve in relation to those around you.
Raising the minimum wage causes inflation and may even be a net loss to those at the bottom of the pay range.

 

[madman]

And I am not saying only teens work for minimum wage. Some people do not work as teens and must start at the bottom also.
The difference is that a 23 year old, likely has some experience, or life skills that will set them about their teen competitors.
The only way to improve your position is to improve in relation to those around you.
Raising the minimum wage causes inflation and may even be a net loss to those at the bottom of the pay range.

I disagree with your last statement. Inflation happens regardless of an increase of min wage.

 

[longview]

I disagree with your last statement. Inflation happens regardless of an increase of min wage.

Yes it does, but increasing the minimum wage increases the rate of the inflation.
As I showed in post #34, after the 2015 minimum wage hike in Seattle, the rents went up almost the same amount
as the monthly pay.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

That is a whole nother issue. This BS of the epipen for example should NOT be tolerated.

Is it really a whole 'nother issue? Is medical care part of our living expenses, and add to our cost of living? I'd say they most certainly do - at least unless we get smart and implement single-payer like all the other first-world democracies.

 

[KLATTU]

Move the decimal point, then ask yourself: If they could do that in 1960, why not now? I'm not strongly advocating a minimum wage increase, just taking a historical look at it. From 1955 to 1963, the minimum wage went from 75 cents to $1.25 .

They can, but what will the consequences be? You're assuming facts that aren't in evidence. That is, that the minimum wage laws back then had no adverse effect on employment.

 

[madman]

Yes it does, but increasing the minimum wage increases the rate of the inflation.
As I showed in post #34, after the 2015 minimum wage hike in Seattle, the rents went up almost the same amount
as the monthly pay.

that is NO proof that an increase in min wage caused the rent to increase.
If you look, you can clearly see other major cities without the the min wage increase also saw an increase in rent.

Rent is constantly creeping upwards.

BTW, nice site Rent Jungle - Apartment and Rental Search Engine With Millions of Apartments And Houses For Rent

 

[KLATTU]

If somebody works 60 hours a week for you, but your business still can't afford to even put a roof over their head, your business sucks and doesn't need to exist anymore.

.

GReat . So they go out of business and now all those workers are making ZERO. Fell better now?

 

[longview]

that is NO proof that an increase in min wage caused the rent to increase.
If you look, you can clearly see other major cities without the the min wage increase also saw an increase in rent.

Rent is constantly creeping upwards.

BTW, nice site Rent Jungle - Apartment and Rental Search Engine With Millions of Apartments And Houses For Rent

No, there is no direct link, it is what is called open loop feedback.
It sure seems strange that the rate of the rent increase was within $3.25 a month of the rate of the minimum wage increase.
But then correlation doesn't imply causation.

 

[JayDubya]

The minimum wage is always too high by whatever number it currently holds.

 

[joG]

The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15 per hour. Prices now are about ten times what they were in 1964. Does that mean the minimum wage should be about $11.50 per hour?

It has certainly been too low, if you wanted to accelerate the movement of jobs overseas.

 

[joG]

I would say that is about right, I think $15 is high. But I do believe in a living wage not a minimum wage. It could be $9/hr in one city and $13/hr in another.

Why should the employer pay more than the job is worth? If voters want him the fellow to earn more, pay up out of voters' income id est taxes.

 

[blaxshep]

Why should the employer pay more than the job is worth? If voters want him the fellow to earn more, pay up out of voters' income id est taxes.

The job itself has no worth, people's time does and no one should work for less than it takes to survive. Tax payers should not be subsidizing an employers labor. If you can't pay a living wage then raise the cost of your goods and services, it will cost the people less at the counter then it does in taxes to fund government programs.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

This is definitely the worst post I've ever seen on any forum. I know several people in their 30's who worked multiple jobs to go through college and are still in debt, but cannot find a job in their field of study.

Then those people are losers. 30's and still working multiple jobs? 30 and still in school? What's the major...LGBT Studies?

With that said, they are settling for lower paying jobs until they find something and some of these people have been out of school for years. Ignorance is ignorance I guess.

And stupidity is stupidity. There are tons of entry-level jobs that pay much higher than minimum wage. Mail rooms. Call centers. The lowest paying office job at a decent corporation still pays at least twice minimum wage. Basically, all you have to do is be responsible, learn basic office skills, and not be a complete tool.

Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for anyone who's "in their 30's," and can't find anything better than a minimum wage job. This is someone who has made themselves as marketable to employers as a turd in a toilet.

 

[gmeyers1944]

The job itself has no worth, people's time does and no one should work for less than it takes to survive. Tax payers should not be subsidizing an employers labor. If you can't pay a living wage then raise the cost of your goods and services, it will cost the people less at the counter then it does in taxes to fund government programs.

Assume that you own the franchise at a McDonald's. Being in business is a balancing act. You need employees to sell hamburgers. What the customers pay is balanced against your cost of running your business. (Buying food and paying employees and paying for electricity, water and gas, etc.) If you raise the cost of hamburgers to meet the increasing cost of running your business, you run the risk of driving business away. Or maybe you give your workers fewer hours of work.

 

[jdog]

The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15 per hour. Prices now are about ten times what they were in 1964. Does that mean the minimum wage should be about $11.50 per hour?

If you want to make the uneducated assumption that any minimum wage is preferable to begin with, then your math is right it should be about 11.50, but the fact is that minimum wages are counter productive and do more harm than good.

 

[Visbek]

The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15 per hour. Prices now are about ten times what they were in 1964. Does that mean the minimum wage should be about $11.50 per hour?

Pretty much.

Also, keep in mind that in the late 1960s, the minimum wage got people close to the poverty line, whereas today it only gets you to 60% of the poverty line.

aaaand minimum wages have also diverged greatly from productivity: