Even if people die before a regulation occurs, the regulation is over an entire industry while a court decision is only over a specific instance or maybe a whole company. World of difference.
I sincerely doubt the government has enough employees with enough free time to monitor every single citizen in america.
Honestly, Hoplite I generally agree with you. It's a bit ridiculous to whine "I have to recycle! THIS IS FASCISM!" But especially nowadays, there are always going to be complaining about it.
I guess they've never been in a situation where the government was a good thing? Hell, I've had my life saved by the police force before, I sure as hell don't complain that they want to put up traffic cameras so they can catch the idiots doing 80 MPH in a school zone.
Essentially, I only have to pay taxes once a year, an amount which isn't HUGE, and in return I get well policed roads, public libraries, well regulated food that I know is safe to eat, nice public parks and wilderness trails, quality public education, a way of resolving disputes with others or of protecting myself from fraud, and just an overall sense of safety and security.
Man, that government, what'd it ever do for me.
Government surveillance cameras are intrusive. Traffic, stop-light, downtown, wherever.
I don't live in the ****ing city. I live in the county. I'm not talking about an apartment building, I'm talking about a storage shed for my own personal use.
The government is telling me I have to sort through my trash. I consider that tinhorn petty BS. Also I consider some of the penalties for not complying to be overly harsh. In NC, if you throw anything but an aluminum can in an AL recycling bin, you can go to jail. That's ridiculous.
Don't bet your ass. I work for the power company and trust me, the gov is really pushy about all these bird protection acts. There was a story not long ago about some teenager who got arrested for having hawk feathers in his possession.
Correction. In one state, in the glovebox is fine. In the next state, in the glovebox can get me arrested. That sucks. Also it is STUPID, the dashboard is no damn place to put a gun, it's likely to slide off during a turn. Then again lots of NC laws are abysmally stupid and statist. Main reason I don't live there.
I don't ask for society's help. Mostly I just ask that it leave me the hell alone.
You're young. You don't remember what it was like 30 and 40 years ago, or longer, when we didn't have half of this ****. You're too young to realize how much ground we've lost.
I'm not saying we're living under Big Brother. I'm saying we've moved closer to an intrusive and pushy and authoritarian government over the past 40 years, and that I'm concerned about what it might be like in another 30 or 40, if these trends continue.
I think the only appropriate answer then is to not impose your will on anyone.
Nope. Freedom is the #1 priority. All others take a back seat.
I have to remember the instant that I cross the state line into NC, I have to get my handgun out of the glovebox and lay it up on the dashboard in plain sight, if I want to stay legal in NC.
When it is used as a right wing talking point without explanation, without context, without parameters and without any actual reality attached to it - YES it is. And I will point this out each and every time this happens. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of the right wing hijacking such terms as FREEDOM and LIBERTY and we are all suppose to bow down and cower because those terms have been invoked like holy water thrown upon a demon.
I believe in freedom too. I believe in liberty too. But I also live in a society of 310 million people and my rights and freedoms have to be carefully and respectufull balanced with all of their rights both as individuals and as members of a larger society.
So YES. throwing out FREEDOM is indeed a cliche without any discussion attached to it as you did here
My statement is not intended to ridicule or mock you or anyone else. It hopefully will spur a discussion that is needed here.
And if you take away my freedoms by not expanding government, you have exceeded mine. The simple fact is, rights are not some perfect system where everything will end up all hunky dory. The concept of natural rights is incompatible with human nature, because human nature is imperfect and self contradictory in places, which will always bleed over into our legal systems. We will always have rights that clash.
:bs:
Then why did the right ask Muslims to disregard their freedom of religion and not worship? Freedom wasn't the number one priority then...
When it is used as a right wing talking point without explanation, without context, without parameters and without any actual reality attached to it - YES it is. And I will point this out each and every time this happens. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of the right wing hijacking such terms as FREEDOM and LIBERTY and we are all suppose to bow down and cower because those terms have been invoked like holy water thrown upon a demon.
I believe in freedom too. I believe in liberty too. But I also live in a society of 310 million people and my rights and freedoms have to be carefully and respectufull balanced with all of their rights both as individuals and as members of a larger society.
So YES. throwing out FREEDOM is indeed a cliche without any discussion attached to it as you did here
My statement is not intended to ridicule or mock you or anyone else. It hopefully will spur a discussion that is needed here.
An inappropriate or unwelcome addition.
Government is necessary to protect the people from each other.
From other government, from business and from other people.
Its a sure thing that business won't do it.
I hear people complaining about this left and right (literally and figuratively), that the government is sooooo intrusive and people cant wait to trot out some 1984 references whenever something doesn't go their way.
I was thinking about it the other day. I have probably a lot more interaction with the government than a lot of people. My fiancée and I are receiving food stamps, and as such we have to fill out a quarterly report every 3 months that details what we made and where we made it. We had to disclose our financial information when we signed up....but other than that, we have little to no contact with state or federal agencies. We pay our taxes and various small fees for service, but other than that, I'd say we get left alone.
So what is the grounding of the complaints that the government is so intrusive?
The Government as we know it isn't protecting the people.
It is using the people to satisfied its own lust for power N' control over humanity.
If anything we the people need protection against the Government.
Traffic control cameras are intrusive?
The city should know whats being built and where. It makes city planning a lot easier and helps keep people from building sloppy buildings that inevitably fall down or hurt someone then someone goes bitching to the city asking why they weren't regulating it.
You have to do taxes once a year. Not a hardship.
Recycling takes a handful of seconds out of your day.
Could be, but probably wont.
OMG! You have to move it a whole five inches!
It really isnt. You complain about having to sort your recycling or spend ten minutes at the county office getting a building permit and it REALLY sounds lame.
"I should be able to throw out ALL my trash together, it's my freedom!" Come on. You live in a society that has done pretty much miraculous things for you and is even willing to help you (mostly) if something goes wrong in your life and you need help. You live in a society where you are free to speak and express yourself as you see fit.
The least you can do is get a freaking building permit and sort your damn trash.
You're signature is written incorrectly.
There is no question mark after a directive statement.
Are you completely and utterly unaware of how many oddball laws, many of them Federal, there are which can make you a FELON for something you didn't even know was illegal? Things that are NOT common sense, like "don't rob stores", but things like... well hell, just watch this video by a law professor and former prosecutor:
Then you completely missed my point. If I want to have a society where there is government regulation, then it is my right to attempt to have such a society while those who do not wish one have the same right to attempt the opposite. Ideally, we would somehow both get out way, but practically that is impossible. In the end, both sides of the issue end up imposing their will on the other side. Its the way it must be, because those who would try to change my way of life, which has a preference for regulation, end up imposing on me and my right to try and steer my life the way I think is best.
The answer is not libertarianism because that ends up harming me and my preferences.
Even if people die before a regulation occurs, the regulation is over an entire industry while a court decision is only over a specific instance or maybe a whole company. World of difference.
But both sides are given the ability to impose their will on everybody through the government...
Wow! Very well said.
Government is necessary to protect the people from each other. From other government, from business and from other people. Its a sure thing that business won't do it.
Who protects us from government, then?
Who protects us from government, then?
It's not a who, it's a what, and it's the same thing that protects us from being run over by private industry:
Vigilance.
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