Is the government really that intrusive?

[Hoplite]

I hear people complaining about this left and right (literally and figuratively), that the government is sooooo intrusive and people cant wait to trot out some 1984 references whenever something doesn't go their way.

I was thinking about it the other day. I have probably a lot more interaction with the government than a lot of people. My fiancée and I are receiving food stamps, and as such we have to fill out a quarterly report every 3 months that details what we made and where we made it. We had to disclose our financial information when we signed up....but other than that, we have little to no contact with state or federal agencies. We pay our taxes and various small fees for service, but other than that, I'd say we get left alone.

So what is the grounding of the complaints that the government is so intrusive?

 

[Goshin]

Yeah, I was just thinking the other day how non-intrusive our government is, as I drove down the Interstate and passed a government camera on a tall metal post every mile or so.

I congratulated myself on how free we are from government intrusion as I drove through an intersection with cameras standing up from the stop-light poles, and pulled into the county offices to try to obtain a building permit for a storage shed in my own back yard. That's assuming the government doesn't classify my property as a "protected wetland" because I have a fishpond, and forbid all "Development" on my property that I own.

Tonight I get to do my taxes, and itemize all my finanical transactions for the Fedgov to peruse. I have no fear that there might be a warrantless wiretap on my phone, since our gov doesn't do such things.

Then I get to sort my trash into various recycling categories, as mandated by the government... tomorrow I'll call the EPA about that migratory bird nest in the tree I need to cut down before it falls on my house... I sure hope they'll let me cut that thing, it could take out most of my roof the next time the wind gets bad.

I found some hawk feathers in my yard yesterday, don't know where they came from. I'm debating what to do with them. If I'm found with them in my possession, I could be charged with a felony... I'm tempted to go bury them somewhere after dark, but maybe I should call the EPA and ask their advice.

Next week I have to travel to North Carolina. While I'm in SC I have to keep my handgun in my glovebox to be legal... but I have to remember the instant that I cross the state line into NC, I have to get my handgun out of the glovebox and lay it up on the dashboard in plain sight, if I want to stay legal in NC. :roll:

Nah, government isn't intrusive or unreasonable.

 

[Cold Highway]

The government restricting citizens on obtain firearms, telling us to buy health insurance, taxing my paycheck up the ass, the blatant disregards for the fourth amendment, smoking bans are just a few examples of government intrusion.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I hear people complaining about this left and right (literally and figuratively), that the government is sooooo intrusive and people cant wait to trot out some 1984 references whenever something doesn't go their way.

People who sincerely make 1984 references with respect to the government have either never read the book or never fully understood it.

So what is the grounding of the complaints that the government is so intrusive?

It kind of depends on the standard you're using. Is the government intrusive compared to China? No. Is it a lot more intrusive than it used to be? You damn betcha.

Is it too intrusive? Everybody will have a slightly different answer to that question.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I found some hawk feathers in my yard yesterday, don't know where they came from. I'm debating what to do with them. If I'm found with them in my possession, I could be charged with a felony... I'm tempted to go bury them somewhere after dark, but maybe I should call the EPA and ask their advice.

It's a shame no government agency will ever give you legally binding advice on how to stay out of prison.

 

[Hoplite]

Yeah, I was just thinking the other day how non-intrusive our government is, as I drove down the Interstate and passed a government camera on a tall metal post every mile or so.

Traffic control cameras are intrusive?

I congratulated myself on how free we are from government intrusion as I drove through an intersection with cameras standing up from the stop-light poles, and pulled into the county offices to try to obtain a building permit for a storage shed in my own back yard. That's assuming the government doesn't classify my property as a "protected wetland" because I have a fishpond, and forbid all "Development" on my property that I own.

The city should know whats being built and where. It makes city planning a lot easier and helps keep people from building sloppy buildings that inevitably fall down or hurt someone then someone goes bitching to the city asking why they weren't regulating it.

Tonight I get to do my taxes, and itemize all my finanical transactions for the Fedgov to peruse. I have no fear that there might be a warrantless wiretap on my phone, since our gov doesn't do such things.

You have to do taxes once a year. Not a hardship.

Then I get to sort my trash into various recycling categories, as mandated by the government... tomorrow I'll call the EPA about that migratory bird nest in the tree I need to cut down before it falls on my house... I sure hope they'll let me cut that thing, it could take out most of my roof the next time the wind gets bad.

Recycling takes a handful of seconds out of your day.

I found some hawk feathers in my yard yesterday, don't know where they came from. I'm debating what to do with them. If I'm found with them in my possession, I could be charged with a felony... I'm tempted to go bury them somewhere after dark, but maybe I should call the EPA and ask their advice.

Could be, but probably wont.

Next week I have to travel to North Carolina. While I'm in SC I have to keep my handgun in my glovebox to be legal... but I have to remember the instant that I cross the state line into NC, I have to get my handgun out of the glovebox and lay it up on the dashboard in plain sight, if I want to stay legal in NC. :roll:

OMG! You have to move it a whole five inches!

Nah, government isn't intrusive or unreasonable.

It really isnt. You complain about having to sort your recycling or spend ten minutes at the county office getting a building permit and it REALLY sounds lame.

"I should be able to throw out ALL my trash together, it's my freedom!" Come on. You live in a society that has done pretty much miraculous things for you and is even willing to help you (mostly) if something goes wrong in your life and you need help. You live in a society where you are free to speak and express yourself as you see fit.

The least you can do is get a freaking building permit and sort your damn trash.

 

[joe six-pack]

The government restricting citizens on obtain firearms, telling us to buy health insurance, taxing my paycheck up the ass, the blatant disregards for the fourth amendment, smoking bans are just a few examples of government intrusion.

Don't forget the beloved Patriot Act, that disregards privacy protections.

Also, aren't taxes for the middle-class lower than they usually are now?

 

[Hoplite]

Don't forget the beloved Patriot Act, that disregards privacy protections.

I agree the Patriot Act is wrong and I dont support it in the least. However my question was with regards to people's everyday lives. My point is that the vast majority of us have little to no intrusive contact with the government on even a semi-regular basis.

 

[joe six-pack]

I agree the Patriot Act is wrong and I dont support it in the least. However my question was with regards to people's everyday lives. My point is that the vast majority of us have little to no intrusive contact with the government on even a semi-regular basis.

If all your phone calls, emails, texts and personal correspondence are being recorded for the purpose of spying on you, I'd say that's intrusive.

Every time you post a message on this forum, someone in the Government has to read it to make sure it isn't a plot against freedom.

 

[Hoplite]

If all your phone calls, emails, texts and personal correspondence are being recorded for the purpose of spying on you, I'd say that's intrusive.

Every time you post a message on this forum, someone in the Government has to read it to make sure it isn't a plot against freedom.

I think people grossly over-estimate the actual capabilities of the government to read/record everything.

 

[phattonez]

I agree the Patriot Act is wrong and I dont support it in the least. However my question was with regards to people's everyday lives. My point is that the vast majority of us have little to no intrusive contact with the government on even a semi-regular basis.

That's not exactly true.

Disney's EPCOT and the Dream of Freedom - Aaron Everitt - Mises Daily

 

[joe six-pack]

I think people grossly over-estimate the actual capabilities of the government to read/record everything.

I saw a documentary on the process once, I forget the name, but they literally employ thousands of analysts and linguists to comb over raw data. I am sure they also use computer programs to search for key words in text to save on the work load, but a lot of personal stuff gets spied on. Wasn't there a story about agents listening in on phone sex between troops and their family back home? I find that idea revolting... and intrusive.

 

[TheBook]

If all your phone calls, emails, texts and personal correspondence are being recorded for the purpose of spying on you, I'd say that's intrusive.

Every time you post a message on this forum, someone in the Government has to read it to make sure it isn't a plot against freedom.

I sincerely doubt the government has enough employees with enough free time to monitor every single citizen in america.

Honestly, Hoplite I generally agree with you. It's a bit ridiculous to whine "I have to recycle! THIS IS FASCISM!" But especially nowadays, there are always going to be complaining about it.

I guess they've never been in a situation where the government was a good thing? Hell, I've had my life saved by the police force before, I sure as hell don't complain that they want to put up traffic cameras so they can catch the idiots doing 80 MPH in a school zone.

Essentially, I only have to pay taxes once a year, an amount which isn't HUGE, and in return I get well policed roads, public libraries, well regulated food that I know is safe to eat, nice public parks and wilderness trails, quality public education, a way of resolving disputes with others or of protecting myself from fraud, and just an overall sense of safety and security.

Man, that government, what'd it ever do for me.

 

[ksu_aviator]

No intrusion?

When I wake up in the morning, it will be on a mattress that is covered by the CPC act regulating the type of material that can be used. The sheets are regulated by CFR 16 500.12, detailing the types of fabrics, size and packaging. I'll brush my teeth with a tooth brush that is regulated by 21 CFR 872.6855 and 872.6865 and toothpaste regulated by CFR 21. I'll take a shower with a shower head that is regulated for flow and production materials. The soap and shampoo I use is also regulated under CFR 21. The car I use to get to work is regulated for safety equipment, gas mileage, materials, fuel type, tire type, etc. When I get to work, I'm required to print about 20 to 30 pages worth of paper work, regulated for alcohol content, rest, health, flight time, training, duty time, weather, etc and the aircraft is regulated for its maintenance...that's about 1000 pages long so I'll just abbreviate by saying its maintenance. I'll stay at a hotel that is regulated for fire suppression, room size, bathroom styles, handicap accessebility, taxes, who can work there, etc.

Is any one picking up the pattern? There is nothing, I mean nothing, that isn't regulated. Even the dog sleeping at my feet is regulated.

 

[Travelsonic]

I don't think anybody here is saying the government hasn't acted for us, or said they aren't doing good thing, TheBook. Honestly, I think you're looking too deeply, looking for the wrong things.

 

[Slartibartfast]

No intrusion?

When I wake up in the morning, it will be on a mattress that is covered by the CPC act regulating the type of material that can be used. The sheets are regulated by CFR 16 500.12, detailing the types of fabrics, size and packaging. I'll brush my teeth with a tooth brush that is regulated by 21 CFR 872.6855 and 872.6865 and toothpaste regulated by CFR 21. I'll take a shower with a shower head that is regulated for flow and production materials. The soap and shampoo I use is also regulated under CFR 21. The car I use to get to work is regulated for safety equipment, gas mileage, materials, fuel type, tire type, etc. When I get to work, I'm required to print about 20 to 30 pages worth of paper work, regulated for alcohol content, rest, health, flight time, training, duty time, weather, etc and the aircraft is regulated for its maintenance...that's about 1000 pages long so I'll just abbreviate by saying its maintenance. I'll stay at a hotel that is regulated for fire suppression, room size, bathroom styles, handicap accessebility, taxes, who can work there, etc.

Is any one picking up the pattern? There is nothing, I mean nothing, that isn't regulated. Even the dog sleeping at my feet is regulated.

The question is whether that regulation is really an intrusion or not. Personally, I wouldn't rate something to be so unless it inconvienced me. If I were in your shoes, that would problably the 20 to 30 pages you have to print.

 

[joe six-pack]

No intrusion?

When I wake up in the morning, it will be on a mattress that is covered by the CPC act regulating the type of material that can be used. The sheets are regulated by CFR 16 500.12, detailing the types of fabrics, size and packaging. I'll brush my teeth with a tooth brush that is regulated by 21 CFR 872.6855 and 872.6865 and toothpaste regulated by CFR 21. I'll take a shower with a shower head that is regulated for flow and production materials. The soap and shampoo I use is also regulated under CFR 21. The car I use to get to work is regulated for safety equipment, gas mileage, materials, fuel type, tire type, etc. When I get to work, I'm required to print about 20 to 30 pages worth of paper work, regulated for alcohol content, rest, health, flight time, training, duty time, weather, etc and the aircraft is regulated for its maintenance...that's about 1000 pages long so I'll just abbreviate by saying its maintenance. I'll stay at a hotel that is regulated for fire suppression, room size, bathroom styles, handicap accessebility, taxes, who can work there, etc.

Is any one picking up the pattern? There is nothing, I mean nothing, that isn't regulated. Even the dog sleeping at my feet is regulated.

Many types of regulation is useful, like the FDA keeping poison and filth out of your food and medicine.

 

[LibLoather]

Is this a serious question? LOL! The government regulates nearly every aspect of your life. The amount of schooling you must have, the mileage of your car, the materials your home is made of, how your home is made, the type of appliances you can use, the type of toilet you use, how much of the money you earn can be kept....the list is endless my friend. And when you're on the gub'mint cheese they control even more of your life.

 

[joe six-pack]

Honestly, Hoplite I generally agree with you. It's a bit ridiculous to whine "I have to recycle! THIS IS FASCISM!" But especially nowadays, there are always going to be complaining about it.

I sincerely doubt what "you don't know" can't hurt you.

 

[Hoplite]

That's not exactly true.

Disney's EPCOT and the Dream of Freedom - Aaron Everitt - Mises Daily

The majority of those things are done for YOUR benefit and are things people will bitch about not having done. Consider that the vast majority of safety regulation for almost anything was put into place because the public demanded it in response to a problem (real or perceived).

Is this a serious question? LOL! The government regulates nearly every aspect of your life. The amount of schooling you must have, the mileage of your car, the materials your home is made of, how your home is made, the type of appliances you can use, the type of toilet you use, how much of the money you earn can be kept....the list is endless my friend. And when you're on the gub'mint cheese they control even more of your life.

I receive foodstamps and my life isnt controlled. I have to report my earnings and do Workfare once a month if I'm not currently working. How is that controlling my life?

 

[ksu_aviator]

Many types of regulation is useful, like the FDA keeping poison and filth out of your food and medicine.

Being useful doesn't not preclude being intrusive.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Being useful doesn't not preclude being intrusive.

It depends on whether one resents the help or not.

 

[Goshin]

Traffic control cameras are intrusive?

Government surveillance cameras are intrusive. Traffic, stop-light, downtown, wherever.

The city should know whats being built and where. It makes city planning a lot easier and helps keep people from building sloppy buildings that inevitably fall down or hurt someone then someone goes bitching to the city asking why they weren't regulating it.

I don't live in the ****ing city. I live in the county. I'm not talking about an apartment building, I'm talking about a storage shed for my own personal use.

Recycling takes a handful of seconds out of your day.

The government is telling me I have to sort through my trash. I consider that tinhorn petty BS. Also I consider some of the penalties for not complying to be overly harsh. In NC, if you throw anything but an aluminum can in an AL recycling bin, you can go to jail. That's ridiculous.

Could be, but probably wont.

Don't bet your ass. I work for the power company and trust me, the gov is really pushy about all these bird protection acts. There was a story not long ago about some teenager who got arrested for having hawk feathers in his possession.

OMG! You have to move it a whole five inches!

Correction. In one state, in the glovebox is fine. In the next state, in the glovebox can get me arrested. That sucks. Also it is STUPID, the dashboard is no damn place to put a gun, it's likely to slide off during a turn. Then again lots of NC laws are abysmally stupid and statist. Main reason I don't live there.

It really isnt. You complain about having to sort your recycling or spend ten minutes at the county office getting a building permit and it REALLY sounds lame.

"I should be able to throw out ALL my trash together, it's my freedom!" Come on. You live in a society that has done pretty much miraculous things for you and is even willing to help you (mostly) if something goes wrong in your life and you need help. You live in a society where you are free to speak and express yourself as you see fit.

The least you can do is get a freaking building permit and sort your damn trash.

I don't ask for society's help. Mostly I just ask that it leave me the hell alone.

You're young. You don't remember what it was like 30 and 40 years ago, or longer, when we didn't have half of this ****. You're too young to realize how much ground we've lost.

I'm not saying we're living under Big Brother. I'm saying we've moved closer to an intrusive and pushy and authoritarian government over the past 40 years, and that I'm concerned about what it might be like in another 30 or 40, if these trends continue.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Then again lots of NC laws are abysmally stupid and statist. Main reason I don't live there.

Is there any kind of law that isn't statist?

 

[Wiseone]

Goshin reads a story about a kid who got arrested for having hawk feathers in his possession, I suppose they were from some endangered bird but whatever. The question that comes into my mind is why do you think its going to affect everyone and that its not just some weird bizzare story.