Is the far right driving the mods

[Donc]

out of the Republican party as Newt has stated in the following article?I could have wormed this in the other thread but I thought it was important enough that it deserves its own thread.


<Sign of the times. Newt Gingrich, himself long considered a leader of the GOP’s conservative wing, is now condemning conservative leaders for driving moderate GOPer Dede Scozzafava out of the race for NY-23, warning that if national conservatives keep bigfooting local races the GOP will continue to wander the wilderness around the country:

“This makes life more complicated from the standpoint of this: If we get into a cycle where every time one side loses, they run a third-party candidate, we’ll make Pelosi speaker for life and guarantee Obama’s re-election,” said Mr. Gingrich, who had endorsed Ms. Scozzafava…

“I think we are going to get into a very difficult environment around the country if suddenly conservative leaders decide they are going to anoint people without regard to local primaries and local choices.”

Gingrich had endorsed Scozzafava, so this was in some ways to be expected. But it’s interesting that someone once considered a spokesman for the fire-breathing right is now condemning conservative leaders for mounting ideological purges. >


Gingrich Condemns Conservative Leaders For Driving Moderate GOPer Out Of NY Race | The Plum Line

 

[DarkWizard12]

out of the Republican party as Newt has stated in the following article?I could have wormed this in the other thread but I thought it was important enough that it deserves its own thread.


<Sign of the times. Newt Gingrich, himself long considered a leader of the GOP’s conservative wing, is now condemning conservative leaders for driving moderate GOPer Dede Scozzafava out of the race for NY-23, warning that if national conservatives keep bigfooting local races the GOP will continue to wander the wilderness around the country:

“This makes life more complicated from the standpoint of this: If we get into a cycle where every time one side loses, they run a third-party candidate, we’ll make Pelosi speaker for life and guarantee Obama’s re-election,” said Mr. Gingrich, who had endorsed Ms. Scozzafava…

“I think we are going to get into a very difficult environment around the country if suddenly conservative leaders decide they are going to anoint people without regard to local primaries and local choices.”

Gingrich had endorsed Scozzafava, so this was in some ways to be expected. But it’s interesting that someone once considered a spokesman for the fire-breathing right is now condemning conservative leaders for mounting ideological purges. >


Gingrich Condemns Conservative Leaders For Driving Moderate GOPer Out Of NY Race | The Plum Line

Yea, that's why Hoffman has a 17 point lead and is going to win.

He is just mad that the republican party no longer represents us. They screwed up for the past 8 years, we don't need them. We just need conservatives. To finally have a candidate that doesn't represent Big govt is going to be refreshing.

 

[Donc]

Yea, that's why Hoffman has a 17 point lead and is going to win.

He is just mad that the republican party no longer represents us. They screwed up for the past 8 years, we don't need them. We just need conservatives. To finally have a candidate that doesn't represent Big govt is going to be refreshing.

Then I guess the independents will be controlling the elections for the foreseeable future then. According to the latest polls 20% of those polled identified themselves a Republicans, and something like 30% something identified themselves as Democrats.

 

[Oftencold]

It looks more to me, like the so-called "far right" is the party in general, and they are about to fire the hired help whose job it is to administrate the organization.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Then I guess the independents will be controlling the elections for the foreseeable future then. According to the latest polls 20% of those polled identified themselves a Republicans, and something like 30% something identified themselves as Democrats.

Good, this partisanship, thus far, hasn't been working.

 

[Ockham]

Then I guess the independents will be controlling the elections for the foreseeable future then. According to the latest polls 20% of those polled identified themselves a Republicans, and something like 30% something identified themselves as Democrats.

Well the problem is you're equating Republicans as the same thing as Conservatives, which is a fail.

Republicans who ARE Conservatives win elections - Republicans who are "moderates" do not. This is the difference between the two party's and how they're elected. Democrat liberals who move to the middle get elected --- Republican's who move to the right and go Conservative win elections. Of course there are always regional and State exceptions, but in general, especially now - in this "big government take over" environment, Conservatives who stand for traditional Conservative values --- no matter the party affiliation - have better chances to get elected. Washington is missing the ball and underestimating the American people's mood... the bail out's, the take overs... not good IMO.

 

[Cassandra]

Well the problem is you're equating Republicans as the same thing as Conservatives, which is a fail.

Of course there are always regional and State exceptions, but in general, especially now - in this "big government take over" environment, Conservatives who stand for traditional Conservative values --- no matter the party affiliation - have better chances to get elected. Washington is missing the ball and underestimating the American people's mood... the bail out's, the take overs... not good IMO.

With a big emphasis on regional exceptions...!

I don't know anything about Hoffman, but Palin is just socially conservative which is to say, not particularly conservative by many measures. Who is the arbiter of "traditional conservative values"?

Moderates are the only people who win elections in my part of the country. That is why Maine has two moderate Repub. senators.

 

[Ockham]

With a big emphasis on regional exceptions...!

I don't know anything about Hoffman, but Palin is just socially conservative which is to say, not particularly conservative by many measures. Who is the arbiter of "traditional conservative values"?

Moderates are the only people who win elections in my part of the country. That is why Maine has two moderate Repub. senators.

I'm not sure who the arbiter is... but I can give you the example of a moderate trying to appeal to the conservative base who failed an that was McCain. In my State, overall Democrats are elected overwhelmingly. At the District level, my county has been Republican now for about 8 years.

Conservatives - meaning fiscal more and social a little less, would appeal to more people even, dare I say, Democrats who by and large are not the kooks who get most of the press. I guess what's being tested here is the thought that a Conservative must move to the middle --- Scozzafava was booted basically for being a liberal in conservative clothing and I think that's right. Over all, Democrats require/expect moderates and Republicans to be moderate or abdicate their ideology "for the good of all". The reverse however is not true - which may be the small backlash we're seeing, giving the RINO's the boot.

 

[texmaster]

I'm not sure who the arbiter is... but I can give you the example of a moderate trying to appeal to the conservative base who failed an that was McCain. In my State, overall Democrats are elected overwhelmingly. At the District level, my county has been Republican now for about 8 years.

Conservatives - meaning fiscal more and social a little less, would appeal to more people even, dare I say, Democrats who by and large are not the kooks who get most of the press. I guess what's being tested here is the thought that a Conservative must move to the middle --- Scozzafava was booted basically for being a liberal in conservative clothing and I think that's right. Over all, Democrats require/expect moderates and Republicans to be moderate or abdicate their ideology "for the good of all". The reverse however is not true - which may be the small backlash we're seeing, giving the RINO's the boot.

It is amazing how the leaders of the GOP are so incredibly clueless. We don't win with RINOs. We win with Conservatives

And being against gay marriage or abortion is hardly far right. Thats the problem with this debate. The liberals keep trying to reclassify any conservative position as "far right" so they can marginalize the base of the republicans and its been working very well up to this point. I only pray we are turning a tide.

 

[jamesrage]

out of the Republican party as Newt has stated in the following article?I could have wormed this in the other thread but I thought it was important enough that it deserves its own thread.


<Sign of the times. Newt Gingrich, himself long considered a leader of the GOP’s conservative wing, is now condemning conservative leaders for driving moderate GOPer Dede Scozzafava out of the race for NY-23, warning that if national conservatives keep bigfooting local races the GOP will continue to wander the wilderness around the country:

“This makes life more complicated from the standpoint of this: If we get into a cycle where every time one side loses, they run a third-party candidate, we’ll make Pelosi speaker for life and guarantee Obama’s re-election,” said Mr. Gingrich, who had endorsed Ms. Scozzafava…

“I think we are going to get into a very difficult environment around the country if suddenly conservative leaders decide they are going to anoint people without regard to local primaries and local choices.”

Gingrich had endorsed Scozzafava, so this was in some ways to be expected. But it’s interesting that someone once considered a spokesman for the fire-breathing right is now condemning conservative leaders for mounting ideological purges. >


Gingrich Condemns Conservative Leaders For Driving Moderate GOPer Out Of NY Race | The Plum Line

I think Gingrich needs to realize that not everyone is party before values. If you are a conservative then it should not matter what letter that person has next to his name, because a lib is still a lib regardless of what letter he or she has next to their name and they are only fooling themselves when they think that a republican lib is somehow much better than a democrat lib..

 

[Cassandra]

It is amazing how the leaders of the GOP are so incredibly clueless. We don't win with RINOs. We win with Conservatives

And being against gay marriage or abortion is hardly far right. Thats the problem with this debate. The liberals keep trying to reclassify any conservative position as "far right" so they can marginalize the base of the republicans and its been working very well up to this point. I only pray we are turning a tide.

So then what makes em conservative?

Aren't Senators Voinovich, Graham, Coburn, Hatch, Chambliss, Cornyn, Murkowski conservative? Funny. They all voted for Tarp. Come to think of it, they voted for the medicare prescription drug benefit of 2003 along with Rick Santorum and Inhofe. I am sure I don't need to look up how they voted for tax cuts the country could not afford.

The 2003 Medicare Bill costs the country about the same as the proposed Health care legislation. The difference is that the Dems have worked to write legislation that pays for itself! Imagine

I get a chuckle when I hear Hoffman talk about being tired of Democrats taxing and spending.

I don't know what you are praying for.

 

[Fiddytree]

At the moment, I would say the momentum in the party is not flowing towards Newt Gingrich, so I'm not entirely convinced that the party really needs to adapt to folks like me. Maybe this will finally show that Gingrich is not what more traditionally-minded conservatives are looking for. I hardly understood the desire to have Gingrich run in 2008 by conservatives long criticizing the foreign policy outlook of the Bush administration (especially the low troop count in Iraq) when Gingrich was perhaps critical for networking during those first few years in the Bush administration.

I never felt entirely at home with the Democrats, but I have also not really felt at home with Republicans. I'm assuming I'm still fairly aligned with the left, but I have over the last several years been attracted to the Republicans.

Sometimes, we will just have to wait and see what the national dialog will be. We may have quite the conservative pull soon, though I am not convinced that moderates or centrists like me will not be the key component in governance. I think there is still some sentiment of the good uses of government when restrained just a bit, but not as restrained as conservatives want.

 

[Ockham]

So then what makes em conservative?

Aren't Senators Voinovich, Graham, Coburn, Hatch, Chambliss, Cornyn, Murkowski conservative? Funny. They all voted for Tarp. Come to think of it, they voted for the medicare prescription drug benefit of 2003 along with Rick Santorum and Inhofe. I am sure I don't need to look up how they voted for tax cuts the country could not afford.

The 2003 Medicare Bill costs the country about the same as the proposed Health care legislation. The difference is that the Dems have worked to write legislation that pays for itself! Imagine

I get a chuckle when I hear Hoffman talk about being tired of Democrats taxing and spending.

I don't know what you are praying for.

First a single vote does not define a person, nor their ideology - nor does it explain their reasons for voting whether that reason is good or bad. So your example is hardly a disqualification. A conservative is best summed up and cited by Mark Levin's Liberty and Tyranny, but to cut it into a short sentence - it's about restraint, federalism, and removing the burden of government from the backs of the people. At times, it's libertarian at other times it's very moderate. One can see some of the best examples of conservatism in the founders.

What I'm praying for is a government who legislates less, taxes less, spends less, and involves themselves less in the people's lives. A government that fulfils their Constitutional requirements to protect this country and provide opportunity and the freedom to attain success and prosperity. Cliche - sure. But we don't need bailouts, don't need the entitlements, don't need a nanny, and don't more like Obama and his ilk.

Less is more, everyone knows that.

 

[reefedjib]

This is why we need a third party. This is why all you conservatives, independents, centrists, moderates and liberals need to join the Modern Whig Party The Modern Whig Party!

 

[Cassandra]

First a single vote does not define a person, nor their ideology - nor does it explain their reasons for voting whether that reason is good or bad. So your example is hardly a disqualification. A conservative is best summed up and cited by Mark Levin's Liberty and Tyranny, but to cut it into a short sentence - it's about restraint, federalism, and removing the burden of government from the backs of the people. At times, it's libertarian at other times it's very moderate. One can see some of the best examples of conservatism in the founders.

What I'm praying for is a government who legislates less, taxes less, spends less, and involves themselves less in the people's lives. A government that fulfils their Constitutional requirements to protect this country and provide opportunity and the freedom to attain success and prosperity. Cliche - sure. But we don't need bailouts, don't need the entitlements, don't need a nanny, and don't more like Obama and his ilk.

Less is more, everyone knows that.

I can see you are having difficulty with this "conservative" definition. The damage was done by "conservatives " but the hemorrhaging is ongoing. Iraq and Afghanistan will bleed us for the next 20 years. Add to that,the bleeding due to the bank bailout, the unfunded expansion of medicare and the tax cuts -(if they are not allowed to expire) and the "ilk" of which you speak, runs across ideological lines. One or two votes do define a person when the consequences are that huge.

 

[texmaster]

So then what makes em conservative?

Aren't Senators Voinovich

hell no

Graham

no way

Coburn

Yes

Hatch

Yes

Chambliss, Cornyn,

yes

Murkowski

Hell no

. They all voted for Tarp. Come to think of it, they voted for the medicare prescription drug benefit of 2003 along with Rick Santorum and Inhofe. I am sure I don't need to look up how they voted for tax cuts the country could not afford.

As some have already pointed out, one vote does not make a record.

The 2003 Medicare Bill costs the country about the same as the proposed Health care legislation. The difference is that the Dems have worked to write legislation that pays for itself! Imagine

Wow have you been suckered. Do you even realize they withhold benefits for years but collect taxes for all those years to make it "pay for itself?"

Seriously, read how long it takes for those new "benefits" to kick in then read how fast the taxes kick in and explain how you can still live in the fantasy it pays for itself.

 

[Cassandra]

As some have already pointed out, one vote does not make a record.



Wow have you been suckered. Do you even realize they withhold benefits for years but collect taxes for all those years to make it "pay for itself?"

Seriously, read how long it takes for those new "benefits" to kick in then read how fast the taxes kick in and explain how you can still live in the fantasy it pays for itself.

There are parts of the bill that will take affect immediately.

The point remains. Your "conservatives" are just a mirage. They are "for sale' like all of our politicians because we have a deeply flawed political structure. Your "conservatives" blab about abortion because it is a very useful tool of manipulation. They do not actually do anything about it. Once in Washington, they spend more than democrats.

 

[Cassandra]

Yea, that's why Hoffman has a 17 point lead and is going to win.

He is just mad that the republican party no longer represents us. They screwed up for the past 8 years, we don't need them. We just need conservatives. To finally have a candidate that doesn't represent Big govt is going to be refreshing.

So much for all that. Hoffman lost.

 

[phattonez]

The point remains. Your "conservatives" are just a mirage. They are "for sale' like all of our politicians because we have a deeply flawed political structure. Your "conservatives" blab about abortion because it is a very useful tool of manipulation. They do not actually do anything about it. Once in Washington, they spend more than democrats.

Republican ≠ conservative. :roll:

 

[UtahBill]

It is amazing how the leaders of the GOP are so incredibly clueless. We don't win with RINOs. We win with Conservatives

And being against gay marriage or abortion is hardly far right. Thats the problem with this debate. The liberals keep trying to reclassify any conservative position as "far right" so they can marginalize the base of the republicans and its been working very well up to this point. I only pray we are turning a tide.

Winning? for what purpose? if the purpose is to gain or retain power without a reasonable plan for solving our problems, what have we, the public, won?
We can compare many politicians to the evangelicals who don't have a clue as to what christianity is, but have many opinions as to what it isn't. They don't have a plan of their own to solve problems, just a bunch of verbal rocks to throw at the plans of others....
I believe that Obama won mostly because the GOP lost its way. Obama had more ideas and articulated them better than the GOP. The GOP needs a new message and new messengers, and the far right is not a viable direction any more than is the far left.

 

[phattonez]

The fiscal conservatives don't have a solution?