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Those three things are conditions that most slaves have but that is not what makes a slave a slave. That prisoner is not property to be bought or sold, his sentence is fixed and handed down by the government and will end so long as it is not a life sentence, he still has all the rights and liberties equal to any other person with the exception that some have been denied for a fixed period by due process of law.
Your question asking if forced labor is ever justified is an intriguing one, but equating slavery and forced labor is wrong. They are not the same thing and should not be treated that way.
I disagree. I think dancing around the semantics keeps us from tackling the issue with any clarity.
The slavery we had in the United States was called "chattel slavery," it was race-based, and it was multi-generational. Slaves had some rights, but not very many.
That type of slavery is wrong. But that's not the only type of slavery out there.
However, if you're more comfortable with the term, we can just talk about "forced labor" from now on.
Uhmm what other kinds of slavery are you talking about?
We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.
Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.
Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:
1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.
2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?
3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.
4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.
I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
Semantics. A prisoner working on a chain gang or hammering out license plates is not a free man. He's not working willingly. He can't come and go as he pleases.
For all intents and purposes, he's a slave of the state.
We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.
Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.
Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:
1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.
2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?
3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.
4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.
I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
The Thirteenth Amendment, which outlawed slavery in this nation, contains a notable exception.
- Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
- Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
In theory, I agree with this exception. I can envision a degree of criminality by which one would forfeit his humanity, and I would find no injustice in turning such a person, on proper conviction for such criminality, into a piece of property that may be sold and bought and in every way used as a slave. The Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit this.
In practice, it probably wouldn't work. Someone of such a degree of criminality as to deserve slavery would probably be too dangerous to allow even that degree of freedom or access to other people.
I think this exception is meant to apply to forced labour by convicted criminals, which is not quite the same thing as slavery.
We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.
Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.
Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:
1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.
2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?
3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.
4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.
I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
That's not true. Forced labor in prison is treated as an exception to slavery basically everywhere in the world. The dictionary definition is a system in which people are treated as property. People do not generally consider prisoners to be slaves. By practice, common usage, and definition, that is not slavery.
We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.
Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.
Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:
1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.
2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?
3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.
4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.
I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
Indentured servitude is another one I forgot about, but I agree it should have its place in society as well. Actually, it's a great alternative to welfare and illegal immigration.
Penile labor is the same thing as slavery.
I threw up in my mouth at the title of this thread.
Forced labor is forced labor. We call that "slavery"
Most of the healthy inmates in the joint want to be able to work a job. It makes the calendar move faster.
I threw up in my mouth at the title of this thread.
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